mudcat.org: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]


BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling

Riginslinger 07 Aug 09 - 09:34 PM
fretless 07 Aug 09 - 03:18 PM
beardedbruce 07 Aug 09 - 09:28 AM
Ebbie 07 Aug 09 - 02:01 AM
beardedbruce 06 Aug 09 - 11:22 AM
fretless 06 Aug 09 - 10:56 AM
beardedbruce 06 Aug 09 - 10:38 AM
fretless 06 Aug 09 - 10:30 AM
Riginslinger 06 Aug 09 - 10:12 AM
fretless 06 Aug 09 - 10:07 AM
Spleen Cringe 05 Aug 09 - 12:23 PM
CarolC 05 Aug 09 - 01:43 AM
heric 04 Aug 09 - 10:15 PM
Desert Dancer 04 Aug 09 - 09:37 PM
Uncle_DaveO 03 Aug 09 - 02:32 PM
beardedbruce 03 Aug 09 - 01:21 PM
dick greenhaus 03 Aug 09 - 01:17 PM
heric 03 Aug 09 - 01:40 AM
Ron Davies 02 Aug 09 - 10:21 PM
Spleen Cringe 01 Aug 09 - 07:05 PM
Uncle_DaveO 01 Aug 09 - 07:03 PM
Riginslinger 01 Aug 09 - 04:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Aug 09 - 03:48 PM
Little Hawk 01 Aug 09 - 01:35 PM
heric 01 Aug 09 - 01:19 PM
Little Hawk 01 Aug 09 - 01:16 PM
Riginslinger 01 Aug 09 - 10:51 AM
Ron Davies 01 Aug 09 - 09:49 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Aug 09 - 09:15 AM
Riginslinger 31 Jul 09 - 09:30 PM
Ron Davies 31 Jul 09 - 09:23 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Jul 09 - 07:45 PM
Riginslinger 31 Jul 09 - 11:52 AM
Little Hawk 31 Jul 09 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,hg 31 Jul 09 - 09:11 AM
Ron Davies 31 Jul 09 - 07:25 AM
Riginslinger 31 Jul 09 - 07:16 AM
Ron Davies 31 Jul 09 - 06:54 AM
mg 31 Jul 09 - 02:13 AM
Little Hawk 31 Jul 09 - 01:04 AM
Riginslinger 31 Jul 09 - 12:53 AM
Ron Davies 31 Jul 09 - 12:05 AM
Ron Davies 30 Jul 09 - 11:57 PM
fumblefingers 30 Jul 09 - 11:31 PM
Peace 30 Jul 09 - 01:54 PM
Janie 30 Jul 09 - 06:48 AM
Ebbie 30 Jul 09 - 02:07 AM
Azizi 30 Jul 09 - 12:55 AM
Riginslinger 29 Jul 09 - 11:06 PM
fumblefingers 29 Jul 09 - 11:01 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:34 PM

It's not hard to see why he'd be pissed. The whole thing was just a bad scene. Hopefully the Beer-Fest will help.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fretless
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 03:18 PM

I will happily and readily concede that "arrogant' and "Harvard faculty members" are noun-adjective clusters that go together like white on rice, but in this instance being black was central to the issue, perhaps in reality, certainly in the case of Gates' perception of the incident, and possibly in the case of Officer Crowley's response to Gates as a potential burglary suspect.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:28 AM

No, I think the problem is "arrogant, improperly behaving faculty members " Regardless of race- to single out only the minority ones seems a bit bigoted.

I will bet the police could give examples ( that will never make the news) about faculty members who are NOT minorities, acting as if they had special priviledges and different rights than others.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 02:01 AM

Why, bb? Isn't that what this is about? Surely you are not implying that Black faculty members are in the majority?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 11:22 AM

" arrogant, improperly behaving minority faculty members "

Please strike "minority"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fretless
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:56 AM

Yup, that's why I wrote "complicating issues." A he said/she said dispute in the midst of a troubled marriage. And, of course, he was acquitted of the charges. There's no way of knowing what actually went on in either of these cases, so we bring our predispositions to our determinations of whether we are dealing with arrogant, improperly behaving minority faculty members or racist officers of the law.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:38 AM

"She reported to police that Counter had tried to push their teenage daughter out of a moving car during an argument."


I can see why this arrest was improper- THAT is obviously acceptable behaviour amoung Harvard professors.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fretless
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:30 AM

Yeah, I suppose. But then there's always Yale and Princeton.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:12 AM

How many black professors does Harvard have? Once we know that, we'll know when we're going to get to the end of this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fretless
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:07 AM

And just to add a new dimension to the story, another African-American Harvard professor has come forward with a somewhat similar tale of being arrested in 2006 when the Cambridge cops asked him to step outside of the protection of his home. There are complicating issues here (read the story below from today's Boston Globe), but one has to wonder about the comparative police records of Harvard's AfAm and Caucasian faculty members.

...........
Second professor accuses police of bias
Harvard official asserts racism in 2006 arrest
By Tracy Jan, Globe Staff | August 6, 2009

A second black Harvard professor accused the Cambridge police of racism yesterday in wrongfully arresting him outside his home nearly three years ago.

S. Allen Counter, a prominent Harvard Medical School professor and head of the Harvard Foundation for Intercultural and Race Relations, spoke about his arrest on assault and battery charges in an editorial published yesterday with The Bay State Banner. The disclosure follows last month's high-profile arrest of renowned African-American scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Counter's attorney, Ozell Hudson Jr., told the Globe yesterday that Counter is considering his legal options over the manner he says he was treated after he complied with a request to step outside his house in December 2006 when police arrived to investigate a call by his former wife. She reported to police that Counter had tried to push their teenage daughter out of a moving car during an argument.

Counter said he had not previously publicized the arrest because he feared that police would harass him and his family. But he told Harvard colleagues about the incident and said he felt he had been mistreated because he is black. Counter said he was not told why police were at his home nor why he was being arrested.

In recent years, he said, it has become a common belief among the black community at Harvard that they should stay put when police come to the door.

"The word around Harvard is never step outside your house with these guys,'' Counter said in a phone interview. "We advise people not to step out. You call an attorney and stay in your house.''

Cambridge police would not comment on Counter's arrest yesterday. But a spokesman said that police have a right to enter homes without a warrant if there is probable cause.

"We don't bait people to come outside,'' said Officer Frank Pasquarello, the police spokesman. "All across America, people step outside their houses and meet us on the porch. We don't go in if they come out. But once we're in there, we don't have to take you outside to lock you up.''

Gates has said in previous interviews with the Globe that he was hesitant to cross the safety of his doorway when Cambridge police Sergeant James Crowley asked him to step outside while investigating a possible burglary.

Neither Gates nor his attorney - Harvard law school professor Charles Ogletree, who Counter said has assisted in his case - responded to requests for comment yesterday.

It is unclear whether Counter's experience factored into Gates' decision to initially remain inside his home during his run-in with Crowley.

"I was polite, and yet police lied and said I was loud, just as they did with Professor Gates,'' Counter said yesterday.

Counter collapsed at the police station because of a heart condition and was transported to Cambridge Hospital, where he said he was handcuffed to a hospital bed all night while a police officer stood guard in his room. He was ultimately acquitted of the assault and battery charges during an October 2007 trial.

"I feel this is a case of racial and criminal harassment on the part of police,'' Counter said.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 12:23 PM

"However, anyone who thinks the Guardian article is "brilliant" is rather credulous and/or lazy."

Brilliant journalism - funny, well written and engaging. Does that explain what I mean any more clearly? And enough already with the snide personal stuff, Mr Davies. Ok? You can make your point without tipping over.

I shall now take a deep breath and rise above...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 01:43 AM

My own opinion (and that's all it is - an opinion) is that Henry Gates was sick and also very tired and jet lagged. I don't think it was his position of privilege that caused him to snap. I think it was his being tired, jet lagged, and sick, combined with the accumulated weight of a lifetime of living in a country that does practice racial profiling against Black people in a way that is profoundly upsetting when experienced over the course of a lifetime.

I think his behavior was perfectly understandable under the circumstances. Not smart, but who among us is smart under fire when we are tired, sick, and jet lagged?

I think the officer probably presented a demeanor that was easy to read as being motivated by racial profiling, regardless of whether or not it was his intention to racially profile Dr. Gates. And I think there is an excellent chance that he did treat Dr. Gates differently than he would have treated a White person. I say this because I don't see any other reason why the Police would lie in their report about what was said in the 911 call.

All of this put together would explain for me why Obama chose to try to resolve it in the way he did. Everyone probably has some amount of egg on their face, and what better way to clean it off than with a little beer among gentlemen.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 10:15 PM

Thanks DD

more:

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2009/04/25/harvard_advised_to_name_ombudsman/

http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspot.com/2008/08/harvard-university-to-scrutinize-campus.html

http://www.president.harvard.edu/speeches/faust/080826_hupd.php

(Not to imply anything, just as a point about reading the news: "youngster attempting to remove a lock from a bicycle tried to explain" might have been phrased "youth using boltcutters on a bike lock." I can't find any results on the promised review of that gun-waving policeman. - sounds like he'd fit in well in San Diego.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 09:37 PM

Some further context:

Bob Herbert in the NY Times: Innocence Is No Defense


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 02:32 PM


As I said before, disorderly conduct is permitted within the bounds of your own home,


But this was NOT within the bounds of his own home. It started there, but he brought it out into public.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 01:21 PM

dick,

"disorderly conduct is permitted within the bounds of your own home, if the general public isn't exposed to it."

and outside of the house, where a crowd is gathered to experience it? That is what was reported, Gates was warned twice OUTSIDE the house before the arrest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 01:17 PM

As I said before, disorderly conduct is permitted within the bounds of your own home, if the general public isn't exposed to it. May not be bright when there's a cop there, but it's certainly not illegal.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 01:40 AM

Okay only because you brought the thread back to the top: Driving along I envisioned Gates appearing in heaven, allowed to visit Rosa Parks in her room, then watching her eyes as she tries for some glimmer of understanding what he's talking about, as he tells the glorious story and how he honoured her legacy and carried it forward. It works with almost anyone - Jackie Robinson, Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Cesar Chavez, the uprisers on Flight 93, Dred Scott, Lena Horne, Sade. . . .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 10:21 PM

"branding" Rig.   Uh, not exactly. More like actually reading what Rig says--over a considerable period.   Rather than favoring us with facile inanities.   But don't worry, you'll have a chance to observe in the future what Rig says about both black and Hispanic figures on one hand, and those who are not on the other. If you are actually willing to read.

However, anyone who thinks the Guardian article is "brilliant" is rather credulous and/or lazy.

It is quite easy to find out that in fact the officer did not refuse to accept Gates' ID. And that Gates was not arrested for "taking issue" but for allegedly creating a disturbance by loud and
"disorderly" conduct. You can "take issue" quietly. Gates did not.

The fact that the arrest was entirely unjustified does not mean the rest of us should accept sloppy journalism like the Guardian article.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:05 PM

There was a brilliant bit of journalism about this in today's Guardian by Pamela Merritt. Read it here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:03 PM

McGrath saith thusly:

but in the case of Gates "getting unreeasonable" may have amounted to mouthing off,

Exactly. "May have".

and perhaps making some unfair comments,

Right. "And perhaps".

Both right so far.

while in the case of Crowley it amounted to (mis)using police powers

Here's where the statements are wrong. McGrath states as a fact that "it amounted to (mis)using police powers".   No "perhaps"; no "may have".   Just the bald assertion of misuse of police powers, only partly shriven by the parentheses.   Not even "in my opinion, based on what filtered through the media."

Were you there, McGrath? Did you personally have the opportunity to hear and to see what went on? The police officer did. Do you have the depth of police training and experience that Officer Crowley does?

A little less assertiveness in laying unknowledgeable accusations would be indicated, methinks.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:55 PM

"You are forever branded now, just like a "witch" in Salem..."

             That's it LH. Ron is profiling us withces. Wait till Eric Holder hears about this!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 03:48 PM

As you say Little Hawk, it seems very likely they were both to blame, and both "got unreasonable" - but in the case of Gates "getting unreeasonable" may have amounted to mouthing off, and perhaps making some unfair comments, while in the case of Crowley it amounted to (mis)using police powers to slap handcuffs on Gates and cart him off to be incarcerated. A different order of "unreasonable".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 01:35 PM

That's right.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 01:19 PM

Here is what I think I take away from this: You cannot get to justice by bullying.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 01:16 PM

(chuckle)

Never mind, Rig. There's no way out now that you've been accused of racism. There is No escape. You are forever branded now, just like a "witch" in Salem or a heretic in medieval Spain. Yessiree, Rig, the jig is up now that Ron has you all figured out. You can squirm, twist, and turn, but you will never escape his righteous hand of justice!

The only effective way I can imagine that you might fight back...(other than simply not giving a damn what Ron Davies thinks about you)...is to accuse him of something similarly heinous and hound him endlessly about it on this forum. Sexism is always a fun accusation. Search through Ron's many posts and see if you can find some marginal evidence of that somewhere. Then there's anti-semitism...always a good possibility of finding that if you look hard enough and with malice aforethought. It's a real killer. Then there's just general snottiness and what could be termed a "pissy" attitude toward others, but it's not nearly as controversial as te accusation of sexism, racism or antisemitism, and you can't destroy someone's reputation with it, so I'd only fall back on that as a last resort. My advice? Go for the BIG character assassination guns. You know, the popular ones.

***

McGrath - I'm not suggesting that they're equally to blame. I'm just suggesting that they're both to blame to some extent or another for what happened. Agreed? I think they both got unreasonable.

I don't know if they're equally to blame, because I'd have to have been there and witnessed the entire incident myself to make that judgement.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 10:51 AM

Well, Ron, maybe I should launch an attack against you. If you'll just let me know what color you are, I'll know how to proceed and...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 09:49 AM

Rig--

That won't wash.   Your attacks are lopsidedly against black and Hispanic figures.   I find it hard to believe that blacks and Hispanics virtually never do anything right.   The second part of it is you make excuses for figures who are not black or Hispanic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 09:15 AM

"...it was just another situation with two prickly men who got ticked off at each other and got unreasonable with each other."

Probably true enough - but there is a big big difference between what they did. Gettig angry and shouting a bit is in no way equivalent to arresting someone, handcuffing them and taking off to be locked in a cell when they have not done anyting that warrants that. Police officers are given special power, and they have a duty not to misuse that power which they exercise on behalf of the wider community.

Suggesting that both parties are equally responsible just because boity are at fault is analogous to saying that in a domestic dispute the one who uses violence is no more responsible than the one who said something that provoked that violence.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:30 PM

Ron - Sometimes I make mention of a prominent figure who is casting himself or herself in a negative light. I have nothing to do with it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:23 PM

Rig-- My question, as if it's a big mystery to you, is exactly why your posts, when they mention a prominent black or Hispanic, virtually always cite them in a negative light.

It is amazingly similar to a pervasive and continuing racism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:45 PM

Rig-
well, it certainly shifts attention from any discussion of healthcare.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 11:52 AM

"What about the pattern of almost constantly attacking prominent blacks and Hispanics?"

                  Ron - I'm not sure that has any affect on health care.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:18 AM

What I mean when I say it's a tawdry problem, mg, is that it was just another situation with two prickly men who got ticked off at each other and got unreasonable with each other. Gates was clearly unreasonable with the cop, and the cop was probably unreasonable with him too (in that he should probably not have arrested him). That problem of two men being unreasonable with each other because of their own pride has been happening ever since the first cave men or Pithecanthropus or whatever walked this Earth. It's an eternal problem.

It's one of the things that creates a lot of unnecessary strife on this forum too...(and women are not immune to falling into that same error, but I'd have to say that men commit that error a bit more often than women do). Most of the strife and backbiting on this forum results from pride-based confrontations between people which escalate and get nastier and nastier...and that's what happened between Gates and the police officer.

It happens in every society, it always has, and it probably always will, and no set of laws or media debates about racism will ever make it stop happening.

That's why I say this incident was, in itself, a tawdry problem. If Gates was not a high profile guy and a friend of Obama we wouldn't even be hearing about it.

Can you use the incident to discuss issues like racism or disrespect toward police officers? Yeah, sure, you can. But you are never going to change the basic fact that a lot of people are still going to get their backs up and get unreasonable with one another in various situations regardless of what the heck race they are or what is going on. They do it basically because they are too insecure and too self-centered to give much thought to how the other person might be affected by their aggressive behaviour. They don't care about the other person's feelings. The only thing they give a damn about is their own sense of pride and entitlement...their own self-image.

And that is a completely individual issue that transcends race, economic level, creed, job description, nationality, or any other group definition you can come up with.

Ron - You are absolutely right when you say: "it is not at all a " sad waste of people's time and energy" for anyone who intends to stop President Obama's health care reform.   Chances for health care reform depend to a large extent on his personal popularity, which as a result of this incident and his role in the aftermath has taken a hit. And the more prominence this incident receives the greater the damage to President Obama.   The fact this story has amazing "legs" is not good for health care reform--or anything else which depends heavily on President Obama's personal political capital.

I couldn't agree more with you on that. I bet that's one key reason WHY we are hearing so much about this incident and why it will not go away. I do regard it as a sad waste of time for people to be doing that, mind you...but that doesn't mean that it's a sad waste of time for them...not from their point of view, because it yields exactly the political result they desire. It's just a sad waste of time from the point of view of someone who doesn't want to see damage done to Obama's credibility and his administration and his attempts to reform health coverage in the USA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:11 AM

Yes, racial profiling is a huge problem! es! It is sickening. Yes!

However, if ANYONE wants to reduce their chances of getting arrested by police ( all together now in chorus:)

"Be as polite as you can be to the police and DON'T STEP OUTSIDE YOUR HOME AND DON'T INVITE THEM IN."

As assinine as it is, your porch is not considered by the police to be part of your protected domicile.

And I still believe that if Skip Gates lived in the world most of the rest of us live in, he would not have yelled at the police.

more of the same 2 cents
harpgirl


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:25 AM

What about the pattern of almost constantly attacking prominent blacks and Hispanics?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:16 AM

'"Also, it is not at all a " sad waste of people's time and energy" for anyone who intends to stop President Obama's health care reform."'

                That's true, Ron. The incident certainly stopped health care reform in it tracks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:54 AM

Anybody who thinks Prof Gates "wanted" to be arrested for any reason needs his own head examined.   And we certainly hope the poster gets professional help soon.

It certainly is, as I noted earlier, remarkable that that poster constantly attacks prominent blacks and Hispanics. Sounds amazingly like blatant racism---which we don't need on Mudcat.



Also:   "sad waste of people's time and energy".   Actually, this bit of fatuous pontification is off base for several reasons:

1)    Mary and some other posters have it right.   The incident actually brought up some burning issues:

the continuing problem of racism,

the "victim culture"--on all sides-- which complicates dealing with it,

the disgraceful state of law in the US, with the result that huge numbers of people, including some law enforcers, either have no way to know how to negotiate it or are willing to exploit the murky nature of it to play power games.


2) Also, it is not at all a " sad waste of people's time and energy" for anyone who intends to stop President Obama's health care reform.   Chances for health care reform depend to a large extent on his personal popularity, which as a result of this incident and his role in the aftermath has taken a hit. And the more prominence this incident receives the greater the damage to President Obama.   The fact this story has amazing "legs" is not good for health care reform--or anything else which depends heavily on President Obama's personal political capital.


And all this should be obvious to anyone who actually thinks about it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: mg
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 02:13 AM

Public safety is a health care problem..probably the biggest one we have. Everything good flows from public safety -- good health, good nutrition, jobs, college, less stress, more happiness. Life itself. Liberty itself..which you don't have if you are terrified of going outside.

So this is not a trivial or tawdry incident. It is of massive importance because racial profiling is a huge problem, I am sure we would admit. Impertinence to the police is a huge problem because it makes their lives worse, them less able to respond quickly, and will grow and grow and grow exponentially and virally if it is not stopped. Snow plow lady and her ilk must not get deferential treatment from the police and minority youth must not get increased police interaction when they are not doing anything.

Fix this problem and health care will fall into place. There will purely and simply be fewer sick people because probably the two biggest sources of stress in their lives -- personal safety and financial woes due to underemployment -- will greatly improve. When a grocer or a laundress or a chiropractor is afraid to move into certain neighborhoods, when fire departments are afraid to answer calls, when taxis are afraid to venture -- are these all not health problems? Employment problems? Yes, they are. Can we fix things? Yes we can, if we would rather fix than agitate. mg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 01:04 AM

An awful lot of excuses are being made here for (or against) two guys (one White and one Black) who couldn't swallow a little of their macho pride and be half reasonable to each other in a stressful situation....

How about they both accuse each other of racism and see who can squeeze the most milk out of that cow? Or has the media already taken care of that angle? Well, yeah, I guess they have. Never mind. The cow is absolutely bone dry by now.

What a sad waste of people's time and energy this tawdry little incident has become. And meanwhile...there's a health care problem that needs to be solved in the USA, isn't there? And it affects at least 40 million people, if not a good many more than that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 12:53 AM

"Gates wanted not to "feel left out" so he wanted to be arrested."

                  And look where it got him. That's what he wanted. Imagine all of his black associates who envy him because they haven't figured out some way to get arrested.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 12:05 AM

And it doesn't matter who "caused" the incident.   The only crucial point is the arrest. And I have not seen one post from anyone which justifies the arrest, and it's rather obvious who carried out the arrest. And it was not Professor Gates.

But please feel free to tell us why the arrest was justified. Please be sure of course to put your argument in the framework of Massachusetts law, since if you were Sgt Crowley, that's where you would have to defend it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 11:57 PM

Gates wanted not to "feel left out" so he wanted to be arrested.   Well, at least we can depend on something.   The brilliant poster who came up with that gem is indeed close to the perfect negative indicator-- though he may well not even know what that means.

"All the evidence supports that" only in that poster's head--which is certainly good for comic relief, but unfortunately not much else.   He shows no signs of even entertaining the possibility of actually thinking before hitting "send".

Ah well, we can hope.

It is certainly interesting that that poster loses virtually no opportunity to smear any prominent black or Hispanic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fumblefingers
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 11:31 PM

Azizi,

I think this entire episode was caused by the hyper-inflated ego of a feller who is far too proud of himself--his race notwithstanding.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 01:54 PM

Well said, Azizi. I have been off the i'net for a bit--just returned from Montreal. I'm glad you're here, too. Always have been.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Janie
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 06:48 AM

Steve Inskeep and Juan Williams    had a thoughtful conversation regarding this on Morning Addition yesterday that if you didn't hear, is worth reading.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 02:07 AM

Have I ever told you, Azizi, that I'm glad you are here? I am.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 12:55 AM

I told myself that I wasn't going to post to this thread. But Riginslinger's and fumblefinger's exchange caused me to change my mind.

Let me first make this editorial comment-I had decided not to post to this thread because I am sick & tired of being the only African American (who publicly acknowledges her/his race) posting to Mudcat threads about race.

And for those who might ask "Does the racial identity of persons discussing racial topics matter?" I say sometimes, and maybe most times-most definitely. This doesn't mean that all persons who have the same racial identity will agree on racial topics. And it doesn't mean that people who have different racial identities will not reach the same conclusions about this topic. But in my opinion, there's a lot to be said about posting from one's experiences. And with regard to this particular subject, I feel very strongly that if there were more Black people who post on this forum and on this thread, this discussion would likely be far different than it has been.

So since no one else has posted this related news yet, I will. And then (regardless of any postings that I might agree with, or I might consider to be waay out to lunch, I won't post any other comments to this thread for the reason I've already stated...

**

"Boston cop suspended after racist outburst: (AFP) – 2 hours ago

BOSTON — Boston police said they had suspended an officer for a racist email likely to renew tensions over the recent arrest of black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates.

"Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis placed Officer Justin Barrett, 36, on administrative leave pending the outcome of a termination hearing," a spokesman for the force told AFP in a statement.

"Commissioner Davis was made aware of a correspondence with racist remarks and yesterday removed the officer of his gun and badge."

The email describes Gates, who was arrested and briefly detained earlier this month at Harvard, near Boston, as a "banana-eating jungle monkey," according to a copy published by news site MyFoxBoston.com.

The city's mayor, Tom Menino, was quoted referring to Barrett as a "cancer in the department" and calling on him to be fired."...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g4pbTC14vyFkwQwh_uu8j5BTMmTA

**


Here's an excerpt from another article about that particular incident:

-snip-

"A Boston police officer was placed on administrative leave after he allegedly used a racial slur when referring to Henry Louis Gates Jr.

In a mass e-mail, Officer Justin Barrett, 36, called Gates a "jungle monkey," according to Elaine Driscoll, a spokeswoman for the Boston Police Department.

Gates, a black Harvard scholar, was arrested at his home earlier this month on a disorderly conduct charge after he tried to budge open the door of his Cambridge home.

Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis found out about the e-mail on Tuesday and immediately stripped Barrett of his gun and badge, Driscoll said. The e-mail was sent anonymously to his Barrett's fellow guard members and the Boston Globe.

Boston Mayor Tom Menino called Barrett a "cancer in the department."

"He should be fired. He should be gone," Menino said.

Barrett, who is also a member of the National Guard, is assigned to District B-3. He was placed on administrative leave pending a termination hearing.

Gates became the center of a national debate on racism when he was charged with disorderly conduct after arguing with police sent to investigate a suspected burglary at his home near Harvard University.

President Barack Obama became embroiled in the uproar when he said police acted "stupidly." On Thursday, Obama is due to host both Gates and the arresting officer at the White House for what officials say will be a friendly beer.

But the email has reignited the controversy and dealt Boston's police a severe image blow just when they and the White House were hoping to calm tensions.

The email allegedly written by Barrett lambasts Gates for getting into an altercation with police.

"I am not a racist, but I am prejudice towards people who are stupid," reads the alleged diatribe -- containing frequent grammatical and spelling errors -- against Gates and local newspaper the Boston Globe.

"He has indeed transcended back to a bumbling jungle monkey."


http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=5&id=47735

-snip-

If that particular Boston police officer took a course in cultural competency or in racial profiling, he flunked those courses in real life.

It's a shame because-in the main-this officer might be a pretty decent person and he might otherwise have been a good police officer. But he definitely made the wrong choice by sending out that mass email containing a racial slur. Hopefully, that former officer and others will learn from this situation since such opinions and such attitudes that were (are) held by police officers in Boston and elsewhere in the USA have resulted in death and other physical, mental, and emotional harm to persons that police officers were sworn to protect and defend.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:06 PM

Good point, fumble!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fumblefingers
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:01 PM

Perhaps the Cambridge police should be given a course on who the big shots and untouchables are in the area. The course might also teach the officers how to bow properly and doff their hats to their betters.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 1 April 8:39 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.