mudcat.org: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]


BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling

Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 09 - 11:58 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 09 - 12:05 PM
SINSULL 21 Jul 09 - 12:12 PM
Dan Schatz 21 Jul 09 - 12:22 PM
Peace 21 Jul 09 - 12:26 PM
robomatic 21 Jul 09 - 12:30 PM
Dan Schatz 21 Jul 09 - 12:42 PM
Bill D 21 Jul 09 - 12:52 PM
SINSULL 21 Jul 09 - 01:06 PM
SINSULL 21 Jul 09 - 01:06 PM
Peace 21 Jul 09 - 01:08 PM
Dan Schatz 21 Jul 09 - 01:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jul 09 - 01:51 PM
Wolfgang 21 Jul 09 - 02:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Jul 09 - 02:24 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 09 - 03:12 PM
Midchuck 21 Jul 09 - 03:22 PM
beardedbruce 21 Jul 09 - 03:28 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 09 - 04:16 PM
Peace 21 Jul 09 - 04:17 PM
Peace 21 Jul 09 - 04:17 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 09 - 04:18 PM
Sorcha 21 Jul 09 - 04:24 PM
beardedbruce 21 Jul 09 - 04:35 PM
meself 21 Jul 09 - 04:42 PM
Peace 21 Jul 09 - 04:42 PM
Peace 21 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM
beardedbruce 21 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM
Richard Bridge 21 Jul 09 - 05:11 PM
Bill H //\\ 21 Jul 09 - 05:41 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 09 - 05:56 PM
SINSULL 21 Jul 09 - 06:19 PM
heric 21 Jul 09 - 09:05 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 09 - 09:13 PM
heric 21 Jul 09 - 09:21 PM
heric 21 Jul 09 - 09:25 PM
heric 21 Jul 09 - 09:28 PM
Dan Schatz 21 Jul 09 - 10:31 PM
GUEST,hg 21 Jul 09 - 10:31 PM
Bill H //\\ 21 Jul 09 - 11:57 PM
heric 22 Jul 09 - 12:10 AM
Ron Davies 22 Jul 09 - 10:34 AM
SINSULL 22 Jul 09 - 10:54 AM
heric 22 Jul 09 - 11:48 AM
olddude 22 Jul 09 - 12:10 PM
olddude 22 Jul 09 - 12:21 PM
Bill D 22 Jul 09 - 02:46 PM
Riginslinger 22 Jul 09 - 02:49 PM
Roger in Baltimore 22 Jul 09 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,hg 22 Jul 09 - 04:09 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 11:58 AM

Amazing how the police can shoot themselves in the foot without even drawing their weapons.

I think he's entitled to be indignant, and once he has provided his ID, that should be the end of it. What in hell were they thinking of to charge him with anything once they knew he belonged in that house?

Henry Louis Gates is a wise, witty, lucid voice of Black history and scholarship. A prolific writer. He's been doing this long enough, he's entitled to think that people might know who he is.

SRS


Black scholar's arrest raises profiling questions

BOSTON — Supporters of a prominent Harvard University black scholar who was arrested at his own home by police responding to a report of a break-in say he is the victim of racial profiling.

Henry Louis Gates Jr. had forced his way through the front door of his home because it was jammed, his lawyer said Monday.

Cambridge police say they responded to the well-maintained two-story home near campus after a woman reported seeing "two black males with backpacks on the porch," with one "wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."

The woman, Lucia Whalen, is the circulation and fundraising manager at Harvard Magazine, a news and alumni magazine affiliated with the school. The magazine's offices are down the street from Gates' home.

By the time police arrived, Gates was already inside. Police say he refused to come outside to speak with an officer, who told him he was investigating a report of a break-in.

"Why, because I'm a black man in America?" Gates said, according to a police report written by Sgt. James Crowley. The Cambridge police refused to comment on the arrest Monday.

Gates — the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research — initially refused to show the officer his identification, but then gave him a Harvard University ID card, according to police.

"Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him," the officer wrote.

Gates said he turned over his driver's license and Harvard ID — both with his photos — and repeatedly asked for the name and badge number of the officer, who refused. He said he then followed the officer as he left his house onto his front porch, where he was handcuffed in front of other officers, Gates said in a statement released by his attorney, fellow Harvard scholar Charles Ogletree, on a Web site Gates oversees, TheRoot.com

He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he "exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior." He was released later that day on his own recognizance. An arraignment was scheduled for Aug. 26.

Gates, 58, also refused to speak publicly Monday, referring calls to Ogletree.

"He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

Ogletree declined to say whether he believed the incident was racially motivated, saying "I think the incident speaks for itself."

Some of Gates' African-American colleagues say the arrest is part of a pattern of racial profiling in Cambridge.

Allen Counter, who has taught neuroscience at Harvard for 25 years, said he was stopped on campus by two Harvard police officers in 2004 after being mistaken for a robbery suspect. They threatened to arrest him when he could not produce identification.

"We do not believe that this arrest would have happened if professor Gates was white," Counter said. "It really has been very unsettling for African-Americans throughout Harvard and throughout Cambridge that this happened."

The Rev. Al Sharpton said he will attend Gates' arraignment.

"This arrest is indicative of at best police abuse of power or at worst the highest example of racial profiling I have seen," Sharpton said. "I have heard of driving while black and even shopping while black but now even going to your own home while black is a new low in police community affairs."

Ogletree said Gates had returned from a trip to China on Thursday with a driver, when he found his front door jammed. He went through the back door into the home — which he leases from Harvard — shut off an alarm and worked with the driver to get the door open. The driver left, and Gates was on the phone with the property's management company when police first arrived.

Ogletree also disputed the claim that Gates, who was wearing slacks and a polo shirt and carrying a cane, was yelling at the officer.

"He has an infection that has impacted his breathing since he came back from China, so he's been in a very delicate physical state," Ogletree said.

Lawrence D. Bobo, the W.E.B Du Bois Professor of the Social Sciences at Harvard, said he met with Gates at the police station and described his colleague as feeling humiliated and "emotionally devastated."

"It's just deeply disappointing but also a pointed reminder that there are serious problems that we have to wrestle with," he said.

Bobo said he hoped Cambridge police would drop the charges and called on the department to use the incident to review training and screening procedures it has in place.

The Middlesex district attorney's office said it could not do so until after Gates' arraignment. Whalen, the woman who reported the apparent break-in, did not return a message Tuesday.

Gates joined the Harvard faculty in 1991 and holds one of 20 prestigious "university professors" positions at the school. He also was host of "African American Lives," a PBS show about the family histories of prominent U.S. blacks, and was named by Time magazine as one of the 25 most influential Americans in 1997.

"I was obviously very concerned when I learned on Thursday about the incident," Harvard president Drew Gilpin Faust said in a statement. "He and I spoke directly and I have asked him to keep me apprised."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 12:05 PM

L.A. Times article.

I didn't put a link to that other A.P. story because it wasn't a stable URL.

The Boston Herald reports that "Police who arrested prominent Harvard University black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. at his home after a reported break-in have recommended that the charge against him be dropped.

A person with knowledge of the case said Cambridge police are expected to announce their decision later Tuesday."

I hope I'm not the only one at Mudcat who a) knows who Gates is and b) finds in incredibly insulting and at the same time ironic that this would happen to him, of all people.

Links to these breaking stories are rarely stable, but a Google search on Henry Louis Gates will bring up the stories as they settle into archives.

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 12:12 PM

I have read several accounts of the arrest and have to admit it looks like racial profiling to me. Had he been a white home owner, there would have been no confrontation and no arrest.

I hope Al Sharpton doesn't turn this into a Tawana Brawley circus.

A man who identified himself with an ID and a driver's license was angry at being treated like a criminal IN HIS OWN HOME. Had the police shown even the least common courtesy, this whole mess could have been avoided.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 12:22 PM

I'll bet they recommend dropping charges - Gates would be within his rights to slap them with a massive lawsuit. I remember Henry Louis Gates ("Skip" to his friends, "the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor and the Director of the W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research at Harvard University" to the rest of us) from my graduate school days, though I never had the chance to take one of his classes. He is about the most non-threatening person you could imagine.

Now I don't doubt that he was angry - most of us would be. He was also tired, having just returned from China, only to find his door jammed, and to have the neighbors call the cops when managed to get his own front door open. But as SRS says, he showed his ID. Now matter how angry he seemed, that should have been the end of it. It's understandable that the police officer would want to see that much, but after that, Gates could have shouted at him six ways from Tuesday and the officer should have apologized and left. He was in his own home, and it was up the officer, not Gates, to deal with it and leave.

I suspect that the officer was inexperienced, and that Gates, being tired and already in a rotten mood, was less than diplomatic. But arresting the man? On his own front porch? For nothing more than being upset at being accused unfairly? Good grief!

Can you just imagine the call to his lawyer? "Chuck - you're not going to believe this...."

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 12:26 PM

Is he rich enough to sue the idiots?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 12:30 PM

This should never have got this far. It sounds to me as if there is some blame to go around. Nosy neighbor calls in something without thinking it through, i.e. doesn't she know what her neighbors look like? If she doesn't then maybe SHE'S doing the profiling.

Boston cops are known as aggressive, take-charge sorts. I can speak to this from experience. And possibly not all of 'em but a goodly number, will escalate upon any sort of challenge, including no challenge whatsoever. It wasn't that long ago that they killed a young woman during street celebrations when the Boston Red Sox won their league (the young woman was an onlooker and for reasons unknown an officer tried out a non-lethal weapon on HER FACE). The Boston cops have a strong union, are numerous and will bring attitude. I suspect that most of the locals like it, because this has gone on for generations.

Therefore, the homeowner, of whatever color, COULD have simply brought his ID to the door, and thanked them for their concern for his private property and personal safety.

There is no profit for anyone in this, so I expect it's gonna get dismissed and played down shortly, unless there's a dollar for REV Sharpton in the mix.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 12:42 PM

From the Boston Globe:

Charges to be dropped against Harvard professor
July 21, 2009 11:58

By Tracy Jan and Andrew Ryan, Globe Staff

The Middlesex District Attorney's office plans to drop criminal charges against Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., who was accused of disorderly conduct on Thursday and arrested at his Cambridge home.

The City of Cambridge and the police department recommended today that prosecutors not pursue the criminal charge against Gates, one of the nation's foremost African-American scholars. His arrest sparked outrage and charges of racism.

"The City of Cambridge, the Cambridge Police Department, and Professor Gates acknowledge that the incident of July 16, 2009 was regrettable and unfortunate," the statement said. "This incident should not be viewed as one that demeans the character and reputation of Professor Gates or the character of the Cambridge Police Department. All parties agree that this is a just resolution to an unfortunate set of circumstances."

Prosecutors plan to enter a nolle prosequi, which will drop the charges, according to the statement.

The confrontation between Gates, 58, and a police sergeant occurred on Thursday when the professor returned home from a trip to China filming a PBS documentary. Gates set his luggage down and beckoned his driver for help because his front door refused to budge.

The scene -- two black men on the porch of a stately home on a tree-lined Cambridge street in the middle of the day -- prompted a passerby to call police to report a break-in.

A Cambridge police report described what followed as the police sergeant stood at Gates's door, demanded identification, and radioed for assistance from Harvard University police when Gates presented him with a Harvard ID. A visibly upset Gates responded to the officer's assertion that he was responding to a report of a break-in with, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?''

"Gates then turned to me and told me that I had no idea who I was 'messing' with and that I had not heard the last of it,'' the report said. "While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me.''

When the officer repeatedly told Gates he would speak with him outside, the normally mild-mannered professor shouted, "Ya, I'll speak with your mama outside,'' according to the report.
Gates was arrested after "exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior'' toward the officer who questioned him, the report said. He was led away in handcuffs.


--

I actually don't blame the woman who called the police - particularly if she knew Gates had been out of the country. Two people - whatever their race - trying to open a front door with a crowbar at 9 O'Clock at night is genuinely suspicious. And despite the police reports, it may not be true that she call about "two black men." She may have called about "Two men" and then been asked for a physical description. Nevertheless, if I were her, I'd give Gates a couple days to get his sense of humor back, and then show up on his doorstep with a large cake - with a file inside it.

I do blame the officer. If it is true that he believed Gates to be lawful resident, he had no business sticking around at all, no matter how much he was being shouted at.

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 12:52 PM

MOST police officers get an attitude of not wanting their 'authority' questioned, even when they are over-using it.

Take one officer who demanded one too many actions, once he knew who Gates was....add one tired, grumpy guy who already had a 'chip on his shoulder', and you have one stupid incident.

75% blame to the officer, 15% to Gates for not staying cool once he knew he was in the right, and 10% to noisy neighbor.

EVERYONE should apologize....the police dept. first!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 01:06 PM

He got the ID. He knew Gates was within his rights. He still insisted he step outside to speak with him.
Sounds like a case of "Respect ma orthority!" courtesy of Cartman.

I can picture me at 9PM returning from China (did it once and was exhausted) on a ho wevening to find the $%^$##@*ing door stuck. Then up steps a cop demanding I prove that I belong in my own house. Yeah -I might be a bit cranky.
I would probably take a deep breath, give him the ID and get him out of my life with a "Thanks for doing your job" but that's me - a white woman in Maine.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 01:06 PM

He got the ID. He knew Gates was within his rights. He still insisted he step outside to speak with him.
Sounds like a case of "Respect ma orthority!" courtesy of Cartman.

I can picture me at 9PM returning from China (did it once and was exhausted) on a ho wevening to find the $%^$##@*ing door stuck. Then up steps a cop demanding I prove that I belong in my own house. Yeah -I might be a bit cranky.
I would probably take a deep breath, give him the ID and get him out of my life with a "Thanks for doing your job" but that's me - a white woman in Maine.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 01:08 PM

Well, I don't blame you SINS. Hell, you went through it TWICE!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 01:15 PM

I'm not sure where I got the 9:00 pm part. Apparently it happened last Thursday afternoon, in broad daylight.

I also find it interesting that this is only hitting the papers now, a week later - and that it is only after it hit the papers that the police have dropped the charges. I'm back to the lawsuit. And yes, Henry Louis Gates is plenty wealthy, and can afford to sue whoever he likes.

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 01:51 PM

The police are clearly pillocks, but it's a bit much to blame the lady who phoned them up. Presumably she didn't know her neighbour by sight, which is common enough.

If you see two men you don't recognise breaking into a neighbour's house, the right thing to do surely is to phone the cops. Wouldn't exactly be a neighbourly thing to do to shrug, and say "Well, for all I know it might be the man who lives there. Nothing to do with me."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 02:01 PM

If it is true that he believed Gates to be lawful resident, he had no business sticking around at all (Dan Schatz)

Well, he didn't, if you read Gates's own account in the first post:

He said he then followed the officer as he left his house onto his front porch

Wolfgang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 02:24 PM

Gates seems to have become confrontational- a bad choice. The officer was within his rights asking the unknown to come outside.

As a member of my neighborhood watch, if I saw two men trying to force the door of a house, I would certainly call the police (and following police advice, I would never approach a stranger whom I suspected of possible felony).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 03:12 PM

He wasn't an unknown, he was in his home with 2 pieces of photo ID that showed he belonged there. I'd be pretty pissed off by then also, if I had a cop in my face insisting on more than that. The officer was out of line. At what point did he decide that ID wasn't enough and he had to invite the homeowner outside? Sounds like he was being provocative.

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 03:22 PM

I'm totally missing the idea of why the neighbor did anything wrong in the least.

I've seen in many places, including this very forum, loud condemnations of neighbors who observed crime being committed and didn't call the police because they didn't want to get involved.

MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS!

Peter.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 03:28 PM

from the CNN report ( noticed no-one bothered with this part:

"The police report offers a different account of the incident.

Gates refused to step outside to speak with the officer, the police report said, and when Crowley told Gates that he was investigating a possible break-in, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said.

"While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me," he said, according to the report.

The report said Gates initially refused to show the officer identification, but eventually produced a Harvard identification card, prompting Crowley to radio for Harvard University Police.

Gates followed the officer outside and continued to accuse him of racial bias, the report said. After Crowley warned the professor twice that he was becoming disorderly, the officer wrote he arrested Gates for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space.""

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/massachusetts.harvard.professor.arrested/index.html



But hell, all cops are racist pigs and should be assumed guilty, right?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:16 PM

Peter,

What the neighbor did was fine. No problems with calling in a suspected break in. But when the party answers the door, provides photo ID and says "this is my house" that is where the police officer turns around, gets back in his car, and drives away.

How difficult is that to figure out?

The police didn't do that; he torqued things up and decided to show the black guy who was in charge. Oops. Wrong black guy to mess with, when you pick on a highly admired African American scholar. Which "signifies" everything (especially if you've read some of his most famous works).

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:17 PM

Nope, I work with too many RCs to ever think that. But the cops sure pooched it on this one.

Also, the officer should have given his badge number. He's tryin' to ID the guy, and the guy's tryin' to ID him. Sounds fair to me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:17 PM

Nope, I work with too many RCs to ever think that. But the cops sure pooched it on this one.

Also, the officer should have given his badge number. He's tryin' to ID the guy, and the guy's tryin' to ID him. Sounds fair to me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:18 PM

And it wasn't a "public space," it was his own front porch.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:24 PM

Mrs. 'Law' checking in here....the cops were WRONG. Period. Mr says that 'being yelled at' comes with the territory. A cop IS going to get yelled at, and if he/she can't handle that, find another job.

Can't do squat with just words. Have to be 'actions'. Threating actions. Period.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:35 PM

"According to the initial police report Gates accused police officers at the scene of being racist and said repeatedly, "This is what happens to black men in America."

Police came to Gates's home to investigate a possible break-in about 12:40 p.m. on Thursday. The department's report said Gates was arrested "after exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior" at his home. Officers said they tried to calm Gates, who responded, "You don't know who you're messing with."

....

"After handing the officer both his Harvard and Massachusetts state identification, which included his address, Gates said he began to ask the officer this question, repeatedly. "I said 'Who are you? I want your name and badge number.' I got angry."

According to Gates's account, the officer refused to give it. The police report says, however, that the officer identified himself.

"I weigh 150 lbs and I'm 5' 7''. I'm going to give flack to a big white guy with a gun. I might wolf later, but I won't wolf then."

But Gates did keep asking for the officer's name and said he began to feel humiliated when his question was ignored. He then said: "This is what happens to black men in America."

The officer left and Gates followed him outside. There were about a half-dozen police officers standing in his front yard.

"I stepped out on the porch to ask them his name," Gates said. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771.html?hpid=topnews



Since, unlike so many here, I was not present to see what happened, I would try to find out if there were witnesses before making judgements on either party.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:42 PM

"Wolf"?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:42 PM

Yes, Bruce, you are correct. But why would the cop not give his badge number?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM

"The police report says, however, that the officer identified himself."

Hi. I am a police officer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM

Who said he did not? Only one side heard from...

"According to Gates's account, the officer refused to give it. The police report says, however, that the officer identified himself. "


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 05:11 PM

Hmm. Was I modded?

As I said, on this thread a man gets arrested for "tumultuous behaviour".

Bobert's neighbour can't get arrested for shooting at his neighbours.

Funny place the USA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 05:41 PM

Like the old saw goes "...vas you there charlie?" I am sure there are a lot of shades of gray in this incident that could have come out at a judicial hearing. This will not happen since the charges have been dropped.

Think about this though:
1) The neighbor did the right thing---saw someone who "appeared" to be breaking into a home and she called the police.

2) The police arrived---everyone agrees on that.

3) They ask HL Gates to step outside and he refuses and shows ID.
    a) Now suppose that he had broken in and got some ID together or, worse, had committed murder and got hold of the ID. No way for the police to know that in advance.

4) The police demur and leave---all agree that at this point Gates went outside and was loud and verbally abusive. The police then, apparantely, started taking things personally and everything escalated into a confrontation and arrest.

On a personal note I do have to say that I usually don't agree with the police---especially suburban ones who think (as a general rule) they own the streets. I have found NYC police to --as a rule--to be professional and courteous. I speak from personal experience there. YET--just last week I was pulled over on Long Island for changing lanes without signalling---it was a pre-text to see if I had been drinking. In fact I was lost and was trying to find my way but the officer used to stop to subtly find out if I had been drinking (he thought I was weaving---actually I was looking for a road sign) and the stop was a legit one. He spoke with me and made conversation to satisfy himself that I was sober (I was) at which point he just gave me a warning about signalling and directions to my destination.

SO--would the same have occurred had I been of a different skin color? I don't know. I have seen police in that area of all shades and, frankly, do not believe---as a general rule--they profile.

As to Gates---an escalation of misunderstandings after a legit call from a neighbor. Plenty of blame to go around---but do not blame the good samaritan neighbor.


Bill Hahn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 05:56 PM

BB and Bill, read the stories. Gates was within his rights all the way along. He isn't guilty of something just because he's indignant or angry about the way he is treated. And Henry Louis Gates is fully capable, in fact, uniquely positioned for understanding just how insulting this event was. That's part of the irony of it. But you may need to be familiar with Gates' broad and gifted scholarship to really get it.

NPR did a story this afternoon on All Things Considered. One of the professors who is a former cop summed it up as a "Contempt of Cop" case, where the cop escalated the event and arrested the person simply because the person found the cop contemptible. This is a way to get even.

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 06:19 PM

If I saw someone forcing in a neighbor's door, I would call the police. The neighbor did the right thing. And no - I don't know many of my neighbors by sight or name. It happens when you work all day and sell on Ebay at night trying to make ends meet.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:05 PM

The facts are all over the place as BB points out.

But this reminds me of when I was harassed by a (short) cop a while back. Gates is seeking special privileges. He thinks cops shouldn't be assholes because he's black.

White or black, educated or not, - a big show is not the wise path. You walk softly, investigate, then strike. (Turns out the cop picking on me was only pretending he had authority to write a smoking tickets, and he didn't even have authority to be driving that black and white to show off at his kid's school function.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:13 PM

heric, that's nuts. The facts are clear, they're not all over the place, though you and BB might like them to be. Gates is not expecting special treatment, he expects fair treatment, and he recognizes that his ID would have been enough if he'd been white. What about that is so complicated that you must say the facts are unclear?

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:21 PM

Did he show his legal driver's ID instead of his impressive Harvard ID? -two versions

Was his first response to will you step outside ""Why, because I'm a black man in America?" or was it after a lot of other nonsense from the cop first? - two versions

Did the cop refuse to identify himself? -two versions

I don't grovel before cops (which can make them mad enough - you'd be surprised), but neither would I start it up with them. If he's so intelligent, can STILL acknowledge taking the wrong tact while standing up for his rights.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:25 PM

(I'm *guessing* he was in the right - seems like a lot of cops there - i.e. He was in the right place, but he must have said the wrong thing.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:28 PM

or he said the right thing, but it must have been the wrong time lol


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 10:31 PM

A Harvard ID is a photo ID - and it's well recognized by Cambridge police. Since Dr. Gates's house is actually Harvard University property (it's leased from the university), it's a logical form of ID to show.

Even the officer admitted in his report that he believed that Gates was the legal resident. After that, it should have been all over.

Professor Gates was short of breath (he'd been ill), wearing a suit, and walking with a cane. (They took away his cane when they handcuffed him on his front porch.) How tumultuous could he have been?

In any case, the charges have been dropped, and as expected, Dr. Gates is thinking about a lawsuit. More than that, he's thinking about a documentary on racial profiling!

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 10:31 PM

I have high regard for the scholarship of this man. However, he would not have been arrested if he had not stepped outside onto his porch. The police can not come in without being invited and you are always safe from arrest until you step outside the house if you haven't done anything. Since he was yelling at them, I think anyone would have been arrested once they stepped outside.

If you want to yell at them, don't go out on the porch!
My two cents


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 11:57 PM

GUEST hg---Exactly!!!   

Bottom line to the incident (and I was not there--obviously) ---two people with issues. Gates may be bright as all get out but is loaded with either arrogance or a sense of entitlement because of racial issues---the cop--I don't know about how bright he is but the arrogance/entitlement (for other reasons) describe him as well. Though, in his defense (the policeman) was answering a call and has to assume it is a legitimate call for assistance.

Bill Hahn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 12:10 AM

"I regret stepping out on that porch! To my amazement, all these police officers had shown up."

"I asked the officer there, 'Would you give me this man's name and badge number?'" Gates said. "Sgt. Crowley, tapped me on the shoulder and said, 'Thank you for accommodating my earlier request. You are under arrest.'

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20136545/detail.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:34 AM

Gates may be "loaded with arrogance" or maybe mostly tired from his trip and disgusted at his treatment.   He did have photo ID.   Did the officer try to compare the ID with the angry man in front of him? Did he ask Gates to step into the light so he could do so? He should have--and that should have been an end to it.

Sounds to me Gates has none of the blame in this one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:54 AM

He said/She said. The end result is a very ugly event highlighting the discrimination that still exists in American society. This is not going away quickly. Nor should it.
This is not the first incident with police and a black Harvard professor. It is racial profiling. And at the very least this officer needs some "re-education". Cop or not, he does not have the right to arrest a man white or black who was legally in his own home even if he does raise his voice at a police officer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:48 AM

I could be way off base but I would guess that this is not a racial incident but a class clash. On the one hand you have a guy sitting in his own home, who is used to receiving respect and deference, while at the same time, as he says, he is a guy who has problems hailing a cab. On the other you have a probably young-ish, probably middle or working class guy, all dressed up in his repect uniform, now in charge of a minor incident, with his buddies coming to watch. When this latter guy is right in the middle of his act-like-a-cop performance it is exactly the wrong time for him to receive a verbal lashing from *anyone,* much less an older egghead professor.

Pick your battles sure, and Gates probably has a righteous claim, but you also pick the timing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 12:10 PM

I wish I knew if this police officer had any complaints against him before. I have to think right now with the facts that I heard is the police officer was out of line. I don't know if racial profiling had anything at all to do with it or not. I suspect, they investigated a possible break in. An ID was produced, some words were exchanged and both over reacted. Most officers I know would simply have said, very sorry to bother you, just doing my job, have a good evening once the ID was produced and even if the guy was upset would just wave and drive off. However that is small town cops, city can't say, never lived in one except college.

But for some officers I guess they want to prove that you can't get upset with them or something when you already shown there was no robbery going on here. I suspect that officer would have done it to anyone cause he wanted to show he could arrest you if you spoke out at him. I am not sure that race played a part. We all know too well that many times it does but I can't see it here unless there is something I am missing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 12:21 PM

I think that racial profiling is an aberration to society in any country. God knows we have had and still have our share here in the states of it. I am just concerned that when that issue is raised, it is raised by a just cause and not just simply raised out of anger. I will be interested to really see all the facts on this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:46 PM

Excerpts from today's Wash.Post;;;;sounds like they did pick on the wrong guy.../

"I studied the history of racism. I know every incident in the history of racism from slavery to Jim Crow segregation," Gates told The Washington Post on Tuesday in his first interview about the episode. "I haven't even come close to being arrested. I would have said it was impossible."

-----------------

"The charge against him was dropped Tuesday, but Gates said he plans to use the attention and turn his intellectual heft and stature to the issue of racial profiling. He now wants to create a documentary on the criminal justice system, informed by the experience of being arrested not as a famous academic but as an unrecognized black man."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:49 PM

Yeah, without racial profiling they never would have caught Timothy McVeigh.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 03:46 PM

I really think this issue has two sides. In dealing with police it is wise to show some deference to their position whether they are acting correctly or not. When I was falsely accused by an officer investigating a "hit and run" in our neighborhood, I answered his questions to the best of my ability. I did not invite him into my apartment, but I did step out into the hallway to answer his questions. When asked where I had been at a specific time and on a specific night two months prior, I had no idea. I told the police that I would check with family and friends to see if I could piece my whereabouts together.

When I called later to tell them I had no alibi, I was called to the police station where I was again questioned, was photographed, and was fingerprinted. I was then allowed to leave. End of story. I could have been resistant and accusatory throughout, but I suspect it would have only brought me more trouble.

It is not so important to convince police of their wrong behavior as it is to present that in court, if it comes to court.

The Police Officer obviously could benefit from some training on dealing with citizens who are upset. Refusing to give a badge number is provocative. Since Mr. Gates produced ID and was not carrying a bag of burglary tools or suspected theft items, he should have warrented more respect from the officers.

When disagreement arises between a black person and a white person it is mind reading to call it a racial incident on it's face. It might be, but I can picture the same confrontation occurring between two white people if one suggests the other is wrong and is acting based on unfair assumptions.

Roger in Baltimore


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:09 PM

Evidently Dr. Gates' vast storehouse of knowledge does not include the following ten things everyone should know in dealing with the police:
ten things to do or not do to level the playing field with cops


He has a bully pulpit on the issue of racial profiling but upon reflection I think he lacks street smarts. I know many, many black men intimately because of the nature of my work. I can confidently say that most of them would not have done anything aggressive such as "demanding badge numbers" and some might even have known not to step outside one's home to avoid arrest. Dr. Gates would teach more individuals something useful by offering up these ten rules, in my opinion.

harpgirl


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 4 April 11:11 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.