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'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?

j0_77 22 Aug 99 - 08:21 PM
MAG (inactive) 22 Aug 99 - 07:48 PM
j0_77 22 Aug 99 - 07:34 PM
Barry Finn 22 Aug 99 - 06:16 PM
Frank Hamilton 22 Aug 99 - 05:30 PM
Barry Finn 22 Aug 99 - 05:10 PM
j0_77 22 Aug 99 - 04:38 PM
JedMarum 22 Aug 99 - 04:22 PM
Lady McMoo 22 Aug 99 - 03:21 PM
bbelle 21 Aug 99 - 07:16 PM
Frank Hamilton 21 Aug 99 - 06:42 PM
Mandochop 21 Aug 99 - 02:29 PM
JedMarum 21 Aug 99 - 01:57 PM
joeler 21 Aug 99 - 10:27 AM
joeler 21 Aug 99 - 10:25 AM
21 Aug 99 - 08:36 AM
21 Aug 99 - 08:34 AM
one of the crowd 23 Jul 99 - 10:21 PM
harpgirl 23 Jul 99 - 02:50 PM
BOOM BOX 23 Jul 99 - 08:30 AM
dick greenhaus 21 Jul 99 - 12:29 PM
BOOM BOX 21 Jul 99 - 12:05 PM
deafboy 21 Jul 99 - 09:33 AM
harpgirl 20 Jul 99 - 10:14 PM
j0_77 20 Jul 99 - 07:11 PM
Deafboy 20 Jul 99 - 01:54 PM
The Shambles 20 Jul 99 - 01:32 PM
harpgirl 20 Jul 99 - 12:50 PM
Deafboy 20 Jul 99 - 12:04 PM
harpgirl 20 Jul 99 - 11:26 AM
Deafboy 20 Jul 99 - 09:44 AM
dick greenhaus 14 Jul 99 - 02:03 PM
gargoyle 13 Jul 99 - 09:00 PM
Angus McSweeney 13 Jul 99 - 07:39 PM
The Shambles 13 Jul 99 - 06:21 PM
Billy J 12 Jul 99 - 06:26 PM
Chet W. 11 Jul 99 - 12:59 PM
Boarding Party (KC) 11 Jul 99 - 09:15 AM
Bill D 10 Jul 99 - 11:00 PM
gargoyle 10 Jul 99 - 10:48 PM
gargoyle 10 Jul 99 - 10:46 PM
Bill D 10 Jul 99 - 02:56 PM
WyoWoman 10 Jul 99 - 02:48 PM
The Shambles 10 Jul 99 - 02:00 PM
The Shambles 10 Jul 99 - 01:57 PM
Boarding Party (KC) 10 Jul 99 - 09:33 AM
Boarding Party (KC) 10 Jul 99 - 09:32 AM
Art Thieme 08 Jul 99 - 01:41 AM
Night Owl 08 Jul 99 - 01:25 AM
Chet W. 07 Jul 99 - 08:42 PM
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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: j0_77
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 08:21 PM

nuttin like the real mc coy refresh


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:48 PM

Jeez, you guys are making me homesick for the city -- any city -- again.

I was getting people out to our song circles for awhile here; one hotshot in our "society" told me I was singing "deportee" "wrong." I snapped back that that was the was I had learned it, and he seemed suitably embarrased. The circles trailed out; I found myself driving 60 miles tothe nearest song circle, in Tri-Cities, once a month on a Sunday afternoon. What a great group! And Mudjack has mentioned running into me at the Portland Monday night song circle.

this is the same guy who is not as good of a dance caller as he thinks he is, and has had the temerity to pull dancers off the floor at one of our dances. The board (finally) reacted to that. and he once condescended to our volunteer house band so badly they almost quit.

Ach! Oh, for the city, and choices.

Someone else is taking a shot at reviving our song circle this fall, and I'll go. and if this control freak even begins to imply he knows more about singing folk songs than I do (hah!) he is going to get it.

Boy, it felt good to vent. Thanks.

MA


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: j0_77
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:34 PM

The only thing bout 'elitism' that recommends it is this - it keeps those eejits busy while the real musicians poularise the art.

The Burren - the what ??? Ass's head ass's butt ass's session.

He haw.

T'would be cruel to send some of todays genius Trad players there but it could be arranged. --- . only thing bout that is twould make the place famous. On the other hand the donkeys might wake up.

The Sleeping Donkey - A BAR FULL NUFFIN - The Burren - A Place of torture by 'cran' and decorated slightly musical sounds. They probably never got 'it' on in their entire lives - and NEVER WILL. *BECAUSE* they can't listen to anything other than themselves.

Do print this out and give it to em.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 06:16 PM

Hi Frank, you're right on target. I've been playing off & on with Larry & Seamus for over (since the eary Coach House Days) 20 years & you couldn't find a more welcoming group in a session that has more love & talent anywhere on earth. It was Seamus that kept at me to pull my drum out from under the table & both he & Larry would always call on singers & dancers & story tellers to make sure it stayed well rounded. Their sessions were always consider by hot shots to be a mid level session but as I said above this was where you could not only hear the love of the music but could really see the love of it & if the worlds best didn't care if it was hot shot then why would I. To them I owe my respect for how I play with others be they better or not. I last I saw of Seamus about a yr or two ago at a concert at the Museum of our Natural Heritage, his dancer didn't make it & he asked if I'd sit in with him for a few tunes. I'd refuse Seamus nothing in this world so I joined him when he asked & he gave me such a lovely & warm intro as if I were the star yet it was my honor to return some of the love of the music he had helped to instilled in me.
Frank I still drop in on their Monday night session when I get the chance (not near often enough) my point was that their are snob sessions but there grows no love of the music there & then there's a lack of a good ttime.
See my July 5th post in this thread.
Barry


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 05:30 PM

Barry Finn,

Might I recommend that you attend the Hannafin/Cooley branch of the CCE for sesiuns? I lived in Boston for a while and I think that what you describe is more of a local problem than an Irish one. Whenever and wherever in Ireland we went, we were received hospitably. Sure, there may be one or two bad apples. But music is meant to be shared and the Irish are committed to this idea. Talk to Larry Reynolds up there and he would be most happy to find a congenial sesuin spot for you. He and Seamus Connally have been running sesiuns for years and they have a most welcoming attitude. Cead file failte is the motto of the best Irish sesiuns.

Slainte,

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 05:10 PM

Sorry to spoil the pure image. The Burren just outside of Boston has a session every night, it's owned & run by two very good Irish musicians from Ireland this is a very elite & an insider session, most who attend are very good if not excellent, I can't stand it because they turn off any non Irish born singers no matter their level & they don't think that a bodhran (there may be other pet peeves but at this point that's enough for me to stop counting) is an instrument. They also hang miks from the lamp that hangs from the ceiling that hangs over the small central table where only the 4 or so elitest sit. I go maybe once a year & then I remember why I shun the place. This is not just my take so I don't think I have a slighted view & this has to be the worst of this type that I've been in, in the past 20-25 years. Barry


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: j0_77
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 04:38 PM

Well geez guys we keep goin over the same ole ground !!!

Frank Hamilton - you are a star - nailed it down right away - fair play to you - There ought to be an Irish Group including folk like Frank and Mr McMoo (I hope your read this! My email is)

qtech@ionet.net

Pulease drop me a note so we can commuicate.

I played since I cannot recall when - Trad etc., and everything McMoo says is Gospel. The Irish do not practice 'elitism' maybe these sessions are by and for some other 'entity' but -_READ THIS - those who do that are giving the Irish a bad name.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 04:22 PM

mcmoo - good comments. I make the rounds of the sessions about town, and enjoy each for its speciality. I have seen the 'insider snub' tendencies from time-to-time, but rarely. The one session I attended where some regulars asked lesser talented individuals not to participate ... is the one session to which I will never return. I am a well rounded, seasoned player, and fit well with just about any jam, and am usually welcomed for that reason ... like you I find that I learn something from each session no matter what the experience level of the indivuals. Snobbery has no place in a jam session!


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 03:21 PM

Just came across this thread and very interested as it is one of my real hobbyhorses! As someone who has been playing in Irish sessions for some 30 years on a variety of instruments I cannot abide "elitism" in sessions. The truth is that nearly every time I play I learn something new, often from so-called "inexperienced" players. In seventeen years playing in one well-known session in London I never saw one person turned away, asked to leave or criticised. On the other hand, I have sometimes been cold-shouldered by "insiders" in new sessions I have been to and it doesn't feel good and certainly makes me even more sensitive to the feelings of learners. Basically it all boils down respect for others and good manners. These days, if I detect "elitism" in a session I don't bother going back.

mcmoo


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: bbelle
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 07:16 PM

I've been avoiding this thread ever since it began because to use the word "elite" in a folk music atmosphere is an oxymoron. Even though I've played guitar for over 30 years, I don't play well with others because I've always been a single act. Also, my major strength is my voice and I learned guitar to accompany myself. I've never been comfortable even considering going to a jam session because I've always been afraid of someone raising eyebrows over my playing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a terrible guitarist. Mainly, I don't know how to play in a group. I think that instrumental musicians do have a tendency to manifest an elitist attitude because I've met quite a few over the years. I find this to be almost non-existent in vocal musicians. Personally speaking, if someone's singing is not on a par with mine, I would never try to "crowd them out" or call for an "elite" session. I encourage everyone to sing because the more then sing, the better they will become. And, as most of us know, sometimes it can be "trying." It takes courage to sing (or play an instrument) in front of your peers and this courage should be recognized by encouragement and patience not by dismissal. That being said, I'm going to a bluegrass session tonight and it's mustering up all the courage I got, folks! I just hope they do some singing too! Oh, well ... it's mostly men so all won't be lost. (She says with a laugh and a twinkle in her eye ...) mc aka moonchild


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 06:42 PM

I have an opinion. I consider this to be an extremely "unIrish" response. The real Irish are magnanimous and encouraging to anyone who desires to forward the "Tradition". The Comhaltas Ceoltori Eireann would not abide such exclusive nonsense. This being said, the Irish are generally quite musically sensitive and outsized egos are not tolerated in the culture. In Ireland, humility is prized if it is genuine.

I really dislike exclusive clubs in music.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Mandochop
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 02:29 PM

Chet, In my experience, especially in Irish sessions, there are a few unspoken rules you must follow when participating in a session. In reference to beginners, you should really know if you are a beginner and try to stay away from sessions which are too fast for you or the tunes are "elite". There are plenty of beginner sessions out there. However, it goes against all session etiquette (in my opinion) to ever ask anyone to leave a session because of their inexperience. It's the same way with beginners as it is with children. Their musical growth should be encouraged, and asking them to leave a session achieves the exact opposite. A session can always be slowed down for a few tunes to accomodate a beginner. A problem developes when the beginner doesnt realize that the session is being slowed down specifically for them. This produces an awkward situation in which the more experienced players tend to stop coming because the session is too slow, and "elite" sessions develope. In summation, beginners: know your limits and dont take over a session, and more advanced players: encourage the musical growth of beginners as far as you can.

Rob


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 01:57 PM

I think it's really simple: open jams are open. everyone is included, everyone is encourged to participate, all levels work together. At these sessions the point is the joy of singing and playing - ALL particpants are equal at that level. The seasoned pros will gain just as much out of these sessions as the beginners. The obvious advantage to the beginner is the chance to play with others. The less obvious advantages to the seasoned pro include making others sound good, teaching others (I've always found teaching a LEARNING experience), and even hearing new arrangements.

Elite sessions? Well they have a term for those; rehearsals - or on-stage jams. Elite sessions are private, and have different purpose. I think you'll find the session snobs are not the really good players.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: joeler
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 10:27 AM

I just had to be number one hundred on this baby.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: joeler
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 10:25 AM

Every group I have ever joined throughout the years always has a political element in it. The power elite so to speak. They love to tell the group how great they are in many different ways even it involves sacrificing a newer member for the benefit of their ego. I think you might have this problem in the Elite' jam sessions case. Screw them all. Play wherever and whenever you want. Impress yourself with your talent, that's what it's all about.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From:
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 08:36 AM

refresh for reference


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From:
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 08:34 AM

refresh for reference


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: one of the crowd
Date: 23 Jul 99 - 10:21 PM

Harpgirl's comments are on target. i know the seisiun of which she speaks. my experiences from many a seisiun in ireland tell me that, there, at least, a seisiun is a social event where the comon denominators are enjoyment of the music and conviviality. there is no other apparent standard. musicianship varies widely, as does instrument mix and tune/song mix, from place to place and from nite to nite in the same place. variety.

an issue i've not seen discussed here yet is the publican's view. The free beer for players is made possible by the listeners who buy their own beer. when a seisiun becomes overly anal retentive, beer sales go done. when they go down far enough, the party's over. thus, lighten up and enjoy the music AND the people. it's only in your own self interest.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: harpgirl
Date: 23 Jul 99 - 02:50 PM

...I'm on my coffee break, boss!! Honest!!!
Welcome to our forum, Boom Box. Capital letters are generally considered to be shouting and are used judiciously...but perhaps you are shouting my friend?
It appears as though Mudcatters have had their say on this issue and it has begun to slip down (were it not for my post). Your ideas seem good. Why not execute the best ones? I personally would vote for a group discussion and vote on such an issue if that were possible. But I get discouraged when people ignore my feedback, since I consider my free advice to be as good as my paid advice! Goodluck at your session! I will be in the woods alot more it seems...harpgirl


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: BOOM BOX
Date: 23 Jul 99 - 08:30 AM

LET'S HEAR IT FOLKS. WE NEED MORE FEEDBACK ON THIS TOPIC. I BELIEVE THERE IS A MESSAGE TO BE SENT HERE.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 12:29 PM

For some reason, this thread seems to concentrate on Irish sessions as the model for a jam session. IT ain't necessarily so. Irish get-togethers have their own rules, which seem to be focused on everyone playing melody in unison as fast as possible, with the exception of bodhran players who are doing something else.

The jam sessions I think of are those that involve string-band music, blues and any other form of music in which improvisation is an important part. And for these types of music, a so-called "elite" session can be a real bit of advanced education for musicians who can handle it. Sure, there's a place for open jams; slow jams and even (I guess) for breakneck velocity jams, but a jam that puts a group of competent musicians together in a setting where it's possible to listen to what the others are doing is a neglected form of get-together that can produce some fine music.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: BOOM BOX
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 12:05 PM

OOOOOOOEEEEEEEEE = CONTROLL IS THE NAME OF THE GAME. SEEMS TO ME THAT THE POWER HAS BEEN RELINQUISHED TO JUST A FEW PEOPLE. DID SOMEONE DIE AND LEAVE THEM IN CHARGE. ARE THERE OTHERS WHO ATTEND THE SESSIONS THAT FEEL PUT OUT WITH THE SITUATION ? "NOT MY CUP OF TEA." SEEMS THERE ARE SOME OPTIONS. = = = = = = = = = = = = 1.stop attending 2.take controll and be more accomidating to others 3.if it's in public, there is power in #'s 4.is it a private club or establishment, if so, the proprietor may need to step in. 5.perhaps some feedback from Ireland itself would be in order. they might have some "FIRST HAND INFORMATION" on how to maintain and nourish entrest in traditional irish music, and comment on the world wide beliefe in Irish hospitality, friendliness and consideration of others


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: deafboy
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 09:33 AM

Ya know, harpgirl, you're right about that. These big sessions due kina turn into a big "Battle of the Bands"


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 10:14 PM

...that's the spirit jO_77...
No problem Shambles...I'm just morphing into something else musically I guess... actually , Deafboy, I'm getting bored with that session after five or six years...I'm back to playing with Art's favorite sideman...six different Irish groups in a session all trying to be the best is a bit much!!


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: j0_77
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 07:11 PM

My 10 cents - seein as it is Irish music sessions that are givin problems - Back before Joe Cooley and the Chieftans (Notice the Bothy band etc followed the arrival of the Cheiftans) Trad was played in a sorta back kitchen style by folk who learned it at home (Ireland) - the best players all ended up overseas - If you turned up at one of those gatherings with a Guitar they would have fussed over your arrival! In those times they were largely ignored except for occasional 'nights' The Irish overseas were listening to Buck Owens, Beatles etc. The Folk clubs/bars were playing the Blues!

If you are ever in my neck of the woods - welcome will you be to play any way you like :) If you've a fiddle I will second for ya - if you are learning I will help ya - if you've a Guitar I'll scratch out a few Long Dances on da violin or the melodian or what ever - if you wanna boogie (I love boogie woogie) I will do a bass player impression -a student of the bass


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Deafboy
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:54 PM

Dear harpgirl,

If you don't like these people at your session, are there other people that feel the same way? Why don't you form your own session with the people you like, and then it will be the social atmosphere that you're looking for.

I think the harp is a great instrument to have at a session and is, often better than guitar. I wish we had one at ours. We have had one a few times, and she was a great player, but people nudged her to the outside due to the size of the instrument. I don't know how good a player you are, but that might me your problem. She didn't really care, though, she just kept playing and lead on many a tune.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:32 PM

Harpgirl.

I take from your tone that the position re your session has not improved?


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:50 PM

...probably not. Power is more important to these folks than concensus...harpgirl


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Deafboy
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:04 PM

I'm sure they'll miss you.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 11:26 AM

Anyone have any more feedback for Deafboy....Sweety my feedback is the same as it has been. I don't want to play in sessions with people with elitist attitudes about making music...making music with one's friends is supposed to be fun...when it stops being about fun and starts being about how good one must be to play with us really accomplished musicians, then I vote with my feet and that is what I have done. Good luck! harpgirl


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Deafboy
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:44 AM

There are 3 kinds of musicians at our session, which has been happening for 5 years now.

1)Players who practice in there home and meet to exchange tunes, play music, and have fun.

2)Musicians who have learned about 5 tunes, don't practice at home, can't keep up, but continue to insist on considering themselves an equal member of the session because the beer is free.

3)Musicians/attention starved singers who don't really know the music at all, but want to sing because there's already an audience, but, for the most part just sit, talk, and make noise the whole time.

Do you know how many musicians show up to our session on most nights? At least 20!! Twenty musicians. There is absolutely NO WAY 20 musicians can sit in 1 big circle and hear each other. There must be 2 circles. Unfortunately for the inexperienced, they end up in the outer circle, but, although the experienced wouldn't mind it, the only people that have a problem with 2 circles are the inexperienced musicians.HEY!! Pay your dues, sit in the back and learn the music, or don't come!If you remain inexperienced for many years, it's because you don't practice, but you're only embarrassing yourself by standing up and threatening the experienced players that if they don't let you in the main circle, you're not going to come to the session.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 02:03 PM

A long time ago, in another ethnos... Pro and semi-pro musicians would occasionally get together to bounce musical ideas off eaach other. THis was not a reehearsal...few of them played as a group elsewhere; it wasn't an "open jam"...simply because it wasn't open. It gave accomplished musicians a chance to expand musical horizons. And it's a practice that, IMO, is sorely missed.

By me, at least.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: gargoyle
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 09:00 PM

BILLY

KUDOS, Dittos, Bravos and Accolades!!!


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Angus McSweeney
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 07:39 PM

Where I live (Minneapolis) we have a little place called the Homestead Pickin' Parlor that offers a back room for jams most nights of the week. The way they get around this "elite" issue is by amending the title, such as "folk music - beginners" etc, substituting the appropriate level, (i.e. intermediate, advanced) on different nights. Anyone is welcome to attend any gathering, but you have a better idea what the level will be. But in my opinion snobs and elitists exist at all levels of expertise and never add anything positive to a good folk jam. Personally, I consider myself a pretty fair guitar player...and since none of you can hear me I'm comfortable with that statement. But I have always found it fun and challenging to play with those who are not quite so far along...a like to add a few grace notes in the background or a stronger hint of rhythym than the player is capable of...something that takes nothing away from the performers arrangement but helps improve the overall sound a little bit. An if the so-called "elitists" are as good as they think they are, they should try a little patience and see if they can rise to the occassion.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 06:21 PM

Billy J.

I don't want to be picky, as I agree very much with all of what you say, but you lost me on the last bit.

Don't the people that do not receive an invitation, feel excluded?


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Billy J
Date: 12 Jul 99 - 06:26 PM

This is very serious discussion but there is room for both, I run a session in our local pub in Co Antrim and we welcome all musicians good or bad as dont forget music is supposed to be fun, when it stops being fun and we think we are too good to play with learners, best pack it in as we have forgotten the times a good musician helped us along the road. I'm not a particulary good musician and even after many years i still get help. Patience and charity would seem to be lacking in some musicians. We run a Folk night by invitation only in order that no one feels excluded and this is run on the lines of a big gig.

Billy J Antrim


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Chet W.
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 12:59 PM

Thread Creep Alert! Audience participation thread coming.

Chet


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Boarding Party (KC)
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 09:15 AM

To tidy up lose ends.

Sorry about casually jumping into an established session without checking to see if my "handle" was in use. Something a archtypical bhodran player might do. Is music a metaphore for life? Or vice versa?

Bill,

New Orleans has a fair bit of Irish session stuff and a wee bit of old timey tunes but NOT MUCH SINGING that I've found yet. Is it something about the South that breeds folks who consider it impolite or un-genteel to sing on choruses? Still looking and hoping.

TOKC (The Other KC)


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 11:00 PM

try to say "thread creep" three times in a row quickly


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: gargoyle
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 10:48 PM

Oh - Crud

I have been guilty of "thread creap."


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: gargoyle
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 10:46 PM

Hell, KC.... aka WyWoman....

What happens if I decided to become "WyWoman" also?

Ain't there such as thing as "squatter's rights" or are you so easiler displaced because of a "meek temperment?"

Coming from the bad-lands of New Mexico....I doubt that "meek" is your temperment.

I once hailed from Raton/RedRiver areas....from whence did you gather your kindred?


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 02:56 PM

WyoWoman...you gotta go to the top of the threads page and click on 'profile'

and hello to K.C King, (a former Wash DC folkie, who has appeared on several albums as a member of "THe Boarding Party")...see Folk Legacy pages

You still in New Orleans KC?..how's it going?


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 02:48 PM

Hey, wait! WE've got another KC... I'm going to change my name before this gets confusing.

Re. the jams: Humility, grace, class and generosity are always called for, regardless of the arena. And when those are all present in a musical endeavor, it's pure heaven. (And why it's so easy to fall in love with musicians!)

Since I've moved to Wyoming, I've met several people through the various kinds of music I do. I started a jam after I'd been here a few months because I missed my musician friends from New Mexico, and because I didn't see anything similar around. A few of those people are still my good, good friends, and they've introduced me to other musical gatherings and other friends. I've just started playing guitar and am ... well, I suck ... . But what always moves me is how willing the more establshed musicians are to show me a new chord, or slow it down a little so I can sort it out, or play songs in keys I know. Not that they devote the entire jam to that, but they are willing to take the time and invite me into the music making. (And I do the same with singing, when anyone wants to try a new harmony or whatever)

What HASn't worked has been the people who only want to do bluegrass and have no interest in any other kind of music. (This is being discussed on another thread, so I wont' go into it here). But the upshot is that these people also haven't become my friends as the other musicians have. Their exclusivity isn't limited to their music. And I really don't have time to, nor interest in, trying to "make it" with people who set up too many barriers to my participation.

On the flip side, I do try to be more aware and sensitive to the way things happen in a jam or song circle, so I go with the flow, rather than galloping in and being a bull in the musical china shop -- a sin of which I probably was guilty when I first started. (But then, I didn't have anyone to 'splain to me how things were done. As soon as someone said, "We go around in a circle and you can say whether you want accompaniment and/or harmonies..." then I knew what was expected and did it.)

KC, who shall soon become WyoWoman

(How do I go about changing my name for Forum purposes, anyone?)

PS -- Helen, do you still have that list of 20 songs and the sheet music? I'd love to get a copy. As I said, I'm just learning to play guitar and it would be great to have a selection in those particular three keys. You can email me at kcompton@trib.com if you see this.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 02:00 PM

This is the link I was trying to do. Click here


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 01:57 PM

KC King.

Running at pretty much the same time as this thread was another, on the subject of Etiquette For Slow Jams, which may be of interest.


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Boarding Party (KC)
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 09:33 AM

In all the discussion of aperture (open/closed, restricted/unrestricted), I'm surprised there was no discussion of speed (fast, slow).

There are instances of communities evolving genre-focused (celtic dance music, bluegrass) "slow" jams. Some thoughts on those.

The opposite of slow, as in slow jam is not fast, just better.

Slow jams not only remove irritants from "better" jams but provide a non-threatening, non-imtimidating forum for learners or those of us who will NEVER get there.

They can be fun and congenial and less intense than a full session.

By definition, slow jams allow any number of players of any combination of players to play at the same time.

There is no known antedote to the tendancy of slow jams to play loud. Softness seems to come with mastery.

For players who are capable of doing both, slow jams are (and should be) different. They are not about stretching musical envelopes and" getting tight". They are about coaching, mentoring, cajoling and passing on - all fun things to do.

One of the things slow jams do is SPAWN smaller more accomolished jams in the form of new groups of the more accomplished members. Some group members may still come to the slow jam, scheduels and commitments permitting. In barershop circles [www.spebsqsa.org], this is the basic process that turns a chapter's chorus of assorted voices into individual quartets. Its called "woodshedding" as in "After the chorus rehearsal, lets us four get together in the woodshed to work on some tunes."

A good way to start a slow jam is to go round the outer circle of a "better" jam whispering "My place, Thursday" in the ear. Give directions or better yet your very own computer-made brochure explaining your concept, to perfect strangers.

I've followed this path for a number of years in a number of places in a number of genres and it seems to work [sometimes].

Slow Jams Rule! KC


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Boarding Party (KC)
Date: 10 Jul 99 - 09:32 AM

In all the discussion of aperture (open/closed, restricted/unrestricted), I'm surprised there was no discussion of speed (fast, slow).

There are instances of communities evolving genre-focused (celtic dance music, bluegrass) "slow" jams. Some thoughts on those.

The opposite of slow, as in slow jam is not fast, just better.

Slow jams not only remove irritants from "better" jams but provide a non-threatening, non-imtimidating forum for learners or those of us who will NEVER get there.

They can be fun and congenial and less intense than a full session.

By definition, slow jams allow any number of players of any combination of players to play at the same time.

There is no known antedote to the tendancy of slow jams to play loud. Softness seems to come with mastery.

For players who are capable of doing both, slow jams are (and should be) different. They are not about stretching musical envelopes and" getting tight". They are about coaching, mentoring, cajoling and passing on - all fun things to do.

One of the things slow jams do is SPAWN smaller more accomolished jams in the form of new groups of the more accomplished members. Some group members may still come to the slow jam, scheduels and commitments permitting. In barershop circles [www.spebsqsa.org], this is the basic process that turns a chapter's chorus of assorted voices into individual quartets. Its called "woodshedding" as in "After the chorus rehearsal, lets us four get together in the woodshed to work on some tunes."

A good way to start a slow jam is to go round the outer circle of a "better" jam whispering "My place, Thursday" in the ear. Give directions or better yet your very own computer-made brochure explaining your concept, to perfect strangers.

I've followed this path for a number of years in a number of places in a number of genres and it seems to work [sometimes].

Slow Jams Rule! KC


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Jul 99 - 01:41 AM

Mega dittos, Dick.

Love,

Rush


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Night Owl
Date: 08 Jul 99 - 01:25 AM

Geeze, Dick.....we was just having a discussion...no need to be gettin' so upset!!


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Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Chet W.
Date: 07 Jul 99 - 08:42 PM

Once more to be sure, Dick?

Chet


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