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Australian Songs of Influence

Sandra in Sydney 12 Dec 13 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,Liora 11 Dec 13 - 09:04 PM
GUEST,Dominique 28 Oct 09 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,Dominique 30 Apr 09 - 03:05 AM
TRUBRIT 30 Apr 09 - 12:17 AM
Andrez 29 Apr 09 - 08:58 PM
GUEST,Dominique 29 Apr 09 - 10:08 AM
GUEST,Nikkiwi 22 Apr 09 - 04:04 AM
GUEST,Dominique 21 Apr 09 - 11:41 PM
Rowan 07 Apr 09 - 01:21 AM
Andrez 06 Apr 09 - 07:04 PM
Bill S from Adelaide 04 Apr 09 - 05:50 AM
GUEST,george macca 04 Apr 09 - 12:39 AM
GUEST,Dana Sutrton 03 Apr 09 - 01:25 AM
GUEST,Dominique 06 Mar 09 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,Dominique 06 Mar 09 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,Dominique 26 Feb 09 - 04:39 PM
nager 26 Feb 09 - 04:13 PM
GUEST,Dominique 26 Feb 09 - 08:35 AM
Andrez 26 Feb 09 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,Dominique 26 Feb 09 - 12:42 AM
nager 26 Feb 09 - 12:04 AM
GUEST,Dominique 25 Feb 09 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,Dominique 25 Feb 09 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Dominique 25 Feb 09 - 03:35 AM
Rowan 24 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 04:53 PM
Rowan 24 Feb 09 - 04:34 PM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 02:22 AM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 12:12 AM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 12:00 AM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 11:43 PM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 11:39 PM
rich-joy 23 Feb 09 - 11:10 PM
freda underhill 23 Feb 09 - 07:56 AM
freda underhill 23 Feb 09 - 07:49 AM
freda underhill 23 Feb 09 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,Dominique 21 Feb 09 - 12:22 AM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 11:28 PM
rich-joy 20 Feb 09 - 11:20 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 11:15 PM
Rowan 20 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 10:26 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 09:49 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 08:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 07:31 AM

posted on Liora's other thread Lyr Req: It's a Long Way to Cunnamulla - John Dengate by Tony in Darwin


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Liora
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 09:04 PM

Would anyone be able to post the words to John Dengate's poem/song It's a Long Way To Cunnamulla? I've been trying to find them for years and can't.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 08:15 PM

I have no idea what happened to the rest of this thread. For me it ends here in April 2009 when there was at least another two months of thread. To provide some kind of conclusion to my involvement I offer the following.
In no way does what I say represent an official position as I have well and truly finished my work at the Museum of Australian Democracy. There are too many wonderful Australian songs to think of defining a hit parade and my role in the project was simply as researcher. I did not make the final choice. Thank you for your help and generosity in being involved in this first selection which hopefully is not an end in itself but the beginning of a developing dialogue about the power and beauty of Australian songs.
You may notice there are twenty nine songs because one internationally famous Australian band declined to be included in the selection. These are the songs:

Archer, Robyn    Menstruation Blues
Blue King Brown    Come and Check Your Head
Bogle, Eric    And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda
Carmody, Kev    Cannot Buy My Soul
Cox, Kerrianne    Beagle Bay Dreaming
De Bortoli, Lucia    [trad] Mama Mia Don me Cento Lire
Hewett, Dorothy and Mike Leyden    Weevils In The Flour
Hicks, Peter and Geoff Francis    One day in October
Hunter, Ruby    Down City Streets
Luscombe, Jack    [trad] Sam Griffiths
Mazella, Kavisha    Love and Justice
McCormick, Peter Dodds    Advance Australia Fair
Midnight Oil    US Forces
Mills Sisters    Waltzing Matilda (Wadjimbat Matilda)
O'Loughlin, Tim and Angie McGowan    No dams
Palmer, Helen and Doreen Bridges    Ballad of 1891
Randall, Bob    My Brown Skin Baby
Reddy, Helen and Ray Burton    I am Woman
Slim Dusty    When the Rain Tumbles Down in July
Sloan, Sally    Ben Hall
Small, Judy    Mothers Daughters Wives
Storer, Sara    Land Cries Out
The Herd    The King is Dead
The Saints    Stranded
Warner, Dan & Dastey, Sally    Anthem
Warumpi Band    Blackfella Whitefella
Wiggan, Roy    Bardi Ilma
Wright, Lola and Ruth Shepherd    The Equal Pay Song
Youthu Yindi    Treaty

You can hear these songs in the Living Democracy gallery at the Museum of Australian Democracy, Canberra.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 03:05 AM

Eric Bogle's "And the Band Played Walzing Matilda" will be one of the songs. I would like to reiterate that the thoughts I have contributed on this thread are my own and do not represent the views of anyone else. I have read what others have said on Mudcat and much of what has been written on this thread has contributed to the way the Living Democracy songs have been selected. In the end this thread is full of people's opinions and others can take them or leave them.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 12:17 AM

Sorry = we i did 'My Bonnie' in English primary school and my mum sang me to sleep with it.    There fore it cannot be Australian.

I think Eric Bogle's Poor Bugger Charlie is a pretty good song and another one that I can't remember the title of where he talks about 'the gentle people they dispossessed lie sleeping' - meaning
Aborigines displaced by Brits.....maybe called The DreamTime Land


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 08:58 PM

This is getting tedious! Dominique, you wont define "influential" as requested god knows how many posts ago so I really dont expect you to define "agents of change" whatever that post-modern jargon means either! As such you dont provide anyone reading this (bordering on tripe) thread with any kind of yard stick to evaluate your fairly idiosyncratic frame of reference. So either make some kind of real effort to elaborate for the rest of us poor "plebs" or just drop this onanistic thread as it is going nowhere fast.

Re AAF, it is a recent (in historical terms) piece of work. As such it has limited impact on Australian traditions. GS the Queen has had an impact regardless of whether you like it or not. I cant stand either but that doesnt take away from the INFLUENCE it has had in terms of Australians and Australians. Which was what you originally claimed you were talking about.

As far as immigrants to this country we all are other than our Indigenous people. By your definition NOTHING that is a product of immigrant culture can then be legitimately included in your list of songs.

Regardless of any personal views, regardless of the facts of "colonial occupation" , the immigrant (non indigenous tradition) has been significantly influenced by British traditions and cultural traditions. It is still part of the totality of the Australian historical narrative. What part of that dont you get?

My year 10 daughter does a better job at analysis than you do in the work presented above. Unless of course you are really a year 8 student with too much time on your hands!

This debate (sic!) is one of the sloppiest pieces of analysis I have seen in a long time. I rate it at an F so far.

Get real!

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 10:08 AM

As I re-visit the words to Advance Australia Fair I admit that I really don't like that song. I never learnt it at school so I rarely think about it. I don't even like Sculthorpe's arrangement though I admire him. The final verses are crawling with empire and make me squirm however... that song will be one of the 'thirty' songs that represent 'agents of change'. God Save the Queen wont. It does not have meaning as an 'agent of change'. I realise it was an influential song for many immigrants to this country and... it is time to take truthful account of our colonial occupation of Australia, own up to that bloody history and recognise who we are and where we're going. The voice of Australian people was never represented by the British.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Nikkiwi
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 04:04 AM

re: god save the queen/king - firstly, I agree wholeheartedly with andrez comments about its relevance and influence to those that fought and died for their country in wars that could have been considered "not their problem"

secondly if you are exploring the shift away from monarchy towards democracy using music, what better starting point is there?


just my 2c


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 11:41 PM

The selection of songs in Living Democracy at the Australian Museum of Democracy is part of a section which will is called "Agents of Change". As people in this thread have made clear "Songs of Influence" is very broad. A small number of songs selected will hopefully make people ask the same questions that this thread has generated. What makes people think about who and where they live? Do we share anything in common as a nation of people or are we regionally so disparate that the only thing we share in common is our elected representatives, like it or lump it? Do songs make a difference?
The Museum officially opens on the 9th May with certain parts of the Museum such as Living Democracy opening later in the year. Hopefully next year we might look forward to seeing a "Living Democracy" presence at the National Folk Festival.
Have your say about the Australian Museum of Democracy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 01:21 AM

When Macnamara put out the first CD of songs made popular on his program he used the original performers; the CD was so popular that many of them paid off mortgages on the basis of royalties. I think he did the same for the second CD.

When the third CD was compiled, he took notice of how lucrative the royalties were and decided to rerecord the songs with himself as the performer. For the items that had a recognised author, the authorship royalties were paid to that person; all others went to Macnamara, leaving the performers who'd made the songs popular enough for him to use "out in the cold" unless they happened to be authors of the items.

"
Legal"? Certainly. "Ethical"? I suppose it depends on your views on ethics.
I've never bothered with him since and don't reckon he was worth an AO.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 07:04 PM

Hi Bill, well with todays modern media lots of songs "are heard by millions". Thats fair enough but are they influential? That was the topic of this thread. Apart from the fact that there is little understanding or agreement by what is meant by the term "influential" in the discussion above.

I have a feeling that perhaps the songs that actually are influential (in a national sense) are basically very few in number and perhaps not even that good in terms of their prose or tunes and perhaps not even of "folk" origin.

That is separate and distinct from songs that may have been influential to people on a personal level. That difference allows for a much broader range of song material as many of the suggestions in the posts above seem to suggest. In that context anything goes as long as it was significant for you in some way, even Macca.

Re Macca, at the end of the day when I next go to the museum I'd like to see Macca get the same treatment meted out to Phar Lap. Before that time I'd like to see Macca be put out either to stud or just to pasture...... but thats a whole 'nuther thread isnt it?

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bill S from Adelaide
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 05:50 AM

I agree with some comments above that many great folksongs and their composers are unknown outside their own field. Another issue in Oz is that the vast majority of songs heard at folk clubs are written by the performers, few songs pass beyond their authors. For songs of influence go to Australian Country Music, John Williamson (Rip Rip Woodchip, Dying koalas), Slim Dusty, His Excellency Ted (Drovers Boy) the Governor of the NT, tune into Macca on Sunday morning. There are songs that are heard by millions. Many of them should be classed as folk singers but call themselves country because it pays more.
Any comments from Macca listeners (Australia All Over ABC Sunday 5-10 am, available short wave and online)
BS from BS from Melb


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,george macca
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 12:39 AM

what about 'WE ARE ONE,WE ARE MANY''...which will become our national anthem AND 'I STILL CALL AUSTRALIA HOME 'which almost is our national anthem AND 'THE ROAD TO GUNDAGAI'


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dana Sutrton
Date: 03 Apr 09 - 01:25 AM

The song quoted by Dave Hall is by Barry Humphreys, I think it was written for the film "The Adventures of Barry MacKenizee," circa 1973 or 1974. It is usually quoted in a short form, without the final verse. Here's the whole thing.

I was down on Bondi Pier drinking tubes of ice-cold beer,
A bucketful of prawns upon me knee.
When I swallowed the last prawn I had a technicolor yawn
And I chundered in the old Pacific Sea.
CHORUS
Drink it up (chugalug chugalug), drink it up (chugalug chugalug)
Have another dozen tubes or so with me.
If you want to throw your voice,
Mate, you have no other choice
Than to chunder in the old Pacific Sea!

I was sitting in the surf with a mate of mine named Murph
Who asked to crack a tube or so with me.
But the bastard barely swallowed it when he went for the big spit
And chundered in the old Pacific sea. (Chorus)

I've had liquid laughs in bars and I've hurled from moving cars
And I'll chuckle when and where it pleases me,
But if I could pick the spot to regurgitate me lot
I would chunder in the old Pacific sea. (Chorus)

There are many ways that you can have a ball when you are pukin',
And the secret of it's in variety.
Oh, you can hurl a tiger from the summit of the Eiger
Or chunder in the old Pacific sea. (Chorus)

L'Envoi

Don't kneel there all alone by the big white telephone
When you can chunder in the old Pacific sea.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 08:36 AM

Political songs on Aboriginal rights


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 07:30 AM

Could spend years reading the threads on Mudcat.
This one seems worth adding to this thread:

Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 04:39 PM

Already OPH is one of three institutions which includes the War Memorial and the National Museum
where if school groups attend all three when they visit Canberra then they get a subsidy towards their excursion.
Tens of thousands of school kids already pass through the doors each year.
Many people visit OPH because of it's political history.
The Museum of Australian Democracy is being paid for by a one off grant,
from our national revenue and was a Howard Govt. initiative.
It now comes under the authority of the Prime Minister's Dept.
Once again I write a disclaimer saying that I am not writing this on behalf of OPH but on my own behalf.
I am a part time researcher employed by OPH and my interest in this research carries me beyond my limited work hours.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 04:13 PM

Yes, all one per cent of them....Can't imagine many people being interested in actually visiting this place can you? Who is paying for it by the way?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 08:35 AM

Are people not allowed to laugh in the face of adversity?

And in response to "So this was what you meant by the term "influential" ?" the answer to the question is No.

MAD is putting together a small collection of songs to make people think about how people use their voices to be heard.
Those songs will represent a number of different groups, epochs, themes, and issues.
They all go under the heading of 'Influential' and 'Australian' but as is clear from this thread, what that actually means is not easy to define.
The reason I asked the question was because it appeared that Mudcat would be an excellent place to open such a discussion on this issue.
The Living Democracy section, of which this conversation is a now a part, is attempting to listen to as many people as is possible.
I am still surprised and delighted at how fast the response has been and at the many considered and insightful opinions in the thread.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:10 AM

>The right song at the right time. So this was what you meant by the term "influential" ?

I think that in the context of the new Museum of Aust Democracy this kind of definition means, to coin a phrase, "bugger all".

Given that the museum is meant to give people pause to reflect of the "D" word and what that might mean in the Australian song context the link above to the other thread seems to me to be frivolous and demeaning to the issue at hand.

It seems to me that Guest D doesnt really have much a of sense himself of what those might be and is still not making an attempt to really reflect on the issues that he himself has raised.

That aside I was thinking about Nagers post immediately above that of Guest D's. I agree about the 1% idea. What is interesting is that if you look at it from that point of view, a song like God Save the Queen suddenly becomes particularly influential. By that I mean I am thinking about all those diggers in the 1st & 2nd World Wars and maybe more recent ones who were willing to go and fight and die on HRH's behalf. Their deaths and the actions of the survivors of those campaigns on their return from war shaped our democracy today (whether you agree with whether it is any good or not). Now thats influential. Most if not all folk songs as well as pop songs belong in the 1% realm by those standards.

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: I should say that I dont particularly care for God Save.... as a piece of writing let alone as a song. But there is no denying it has been influential in the Australian context.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 12:42 AM

maybe the Australian Songs of Flatulence thread will solve the problem


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 12:04 AM

I haven't been into this since the early posts but someone drew my attention to a comment by Dominique (above) laughing about what I said earlier - and still stand by. Songs of Influence? Maybe one per cent of the population might find something in what has been suggested above.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 06:19 PM

Oh yes and the "we" is very personal.
I don't assume that anyone is talking about homogenising the diversity of people in their various cultures, religions and ages.
"WE" as in the unwholely notion of a people who believe that "we" should live together "democratically".

So the 'we' can mean many different things.

These are my thinkings and not representative of OPH.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 06:12 PM

I was just re-reading and laughing reading Nager's statement:

"I have tried on numerous occasions over the years to get family, friends and workmates to listen to local folk music through my Cds etc but they just don't like it one little bit when I play them."

MAD will face the same dilemma. How can people be turned on? Drugs I think are the optimum solution but I don't advocat that.
I mean the job of the museum is to turn people on but can anyone really be enlightened or do we like what we know and know what we like?
Except in those rare moments when we're ready for change.

The right song at the right time might do that.

That's what I mean by influential. Not just something we have had ground on us, not something we have ingrained because of a catchy tune but that moment when we see things differently.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 03:35 AM

Yeah Rowan! It's a good idea. Have to see what the curator says now you've suggested it. The idea is out there.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM

Assuming you're in Canberra, another suggestion has just made its way into my tiny brain. WHy not add to your collection of suggestions by setting yourself up at the National, over Easter? I'm sure you'd be well received.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:53 PM

Thanks Rowan. I spend a bit of time in the AIATSIS library and on MURA the online catalogue
and know the work of Ellis who I should have mentioned along with Stephen Wild.
On youtube there is a 70s GTK clip of Odetta in Australia being asked about folk and pop differentiation.
She was so eloquent in saying that the categories of music are not important and that folk is about the people and can embrase all categories of popular music.
Wasn't there a Folk Museum to have been opened in Canberra, at one stage? What happened to that?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:34 PM

If you're looking for archival music of original Australians you could go to AIATSIS and check out collections made by Prof. Ellis, although I'm not sure how influential (on democracy) her collections have been.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM

"I feel that a writer's social conscience should extend to caring about the quality of the culture he is contributing to.
This might sound a bit lofty, but I say it in the belief that every thought held and expressed in words contributes something to the overall culture of a society.
It can contribute positively or negatively in that it can add or detract from that culture. One way or the other, it will do something.
Just how much it contributes in either direction depends on how much it is pushed and how closely that personally expressed thought is related to the generally held ideas of the society.
A song should be allowed to grow within the close environment of its creator, from which it will either emerge or be submerged, depending on the validity of its statement and the value it has as a song."
Don Henderson 1968


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 02:22 AM

Yeah! Paul Spencer's A Word for Freedom


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 12:12 AM

That story about John Greenan in APRAP changes my understanding of "The Wild One".


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 12:00 AM

The point being that it is clear from this discussion that we are lacking something that brings together
the work of Mark Gregory and Peter Parkhill and the NLA sound archives and Music Australia and NFSA
and the various sites dedicated to people like Don Henderson
but then also the collections of public songs from the Traditional Owners of Australia through Strehlow and Von Brandenstein,
Moyle, Elkin, and more recently Dunbar Hall, Marett, Corn, Treloyn, Barwick just to mention a few.
Then there are the living traditions of traditional music by the Traditional Owners. Where is this celebrated?
OPH will scratch the surface of this in the Living Democracy section but the Museum is not dedicated to this sole purpose.
It will be a place to stop and listen, a moment of pause and reflection for those who are interested in a glimpse at some songs that have influenced Australians.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:43 PM

Oh it cut me off and I lost the rest. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:40 PM

For the last day I have had trouble submitting a message. Anyway...
Thanks for all those suggestions Freda and yes "The Wild One". This is where I am unsure of the difference between popular and influential because no one would deny the popularity of that song. Was JOK the voice of a generation? In that case this song is infuential but also are there other considerations like songs that were not so popular right alongside which have also endured and still hold sway? I don't have to make the final call on that but those are the questions we're asking.

Choirs, the united voice, are incredibly important and I'm not exactly sure how they will be represented as yet at OPH, they're working on it.
My question then becomes is there any institution in Australia concerned with the celebration of Australian songs in their diversity or is everything categorised into specific 'halls of fame'?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:39 PM

Feels like I've been locked out. I can't submit. Must be something to do with the size of the cache or my mac. I'll try again.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:10 PM

The Dec 2008 APRAP magazine, has an article about "The Wild One (Real Wild Child)" - an Oz-written hit in 1958, for Johnny O'Keefe, that keeps surfacing over the years : many artists worldwide have recorded it and 22 major films have used it, plus TV shows and ads ....


Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:56 AM

This site of Australian Union songs has more than 640 songs and poems, over 260 Authors, representing songs written 200 years ago to the present.

(will this MAD place be big enough Domenique.. what have you started?)


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:49 AM

Sonia Bennet is another songwriter, who worked with the poet Denis Kevans.

Paul Spencer is a brilliant young songwriter who addresses social themes, I can't speak highly enough of his creativity and insight.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:44 AM

interview with John Dengate

The Riderless Horse - Australians songs of WW1

interesting references

Margaret Bradford

the history of the solidarity choir


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:23 AM

Children's Songs? Now I have never been into "up there cazaly" or "Our Don" but it seems to me there must be some humdinger sporting odes that ought to get a look in seeing as we are a "sporting nation".
How political have any of these songs been? Are the two aforementioned more significant than I think?
They don't strike me as having the impact that Walzing Matilda does?
On the other hand if only Bombora had words! Maybe "wipeout" says it all.

"It's on" is great and I haven't yet been able to find "Plastic" by Don Henderson.
I've heard "Picket Line" and "Thirty Ton Line" from Mark Gregory's great collection "With these Arms".
Is "Plastic" released anywhere? Have the Qld Folk Federation managed to get that Don Henderson Project album up?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 12:22 AM

That made me laugh Rowan and I'm glad that the term is now making some sense.
I was never trying to be obtuse though unfortunately it does come naturally.
I have to take a break. Joy and R-J thanks.
Oh yes Geoff not Jeff Mack
I'll be back soon.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:28 PM

Mike O'Rouke's "TI Woman" doesn't fit the criteria strictly speaking, but it deserves a look.
Alan Musgrove has a song about his grandfather called, "Just Another Dusted Miner". Al has collected many songs worth considering too.
"The Banks of the Murray" is a gentle parlour song about WW1. It's certainly a protest song in its way. Nobody knows who wrote it but it was probably an Australian.

This could be huge.
Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:20 PM

Domminique, I thought to clarify regarding some of my choices, made in above posts :

Rolf Harris & Harry Butler (the naturalist)'s "Sun Arise" (as you can see from posts in the threads on Mudcat, like : thread.cfm?threadid=50015) made an impression on many people – and not just in Australia. A number of international versions of this song have also been recorded, and it pioneered the use of the Didj sound, so popular these days (never mind that they had to simulate it on the original recording!!)
The song made a great impression on my Mum and me, via it being played on ABC Radio in the 60s.

Likewise when, some years later, ABC Radio started playing Ted Egan's "Gurindji Blues", we were very drawn to both the music and the story being told. A story that is so important in Australia's history (both white and black); a story that continues to produce songs and books (e.g. Paul Kelly & Kev Carmody's "From Little Things, Big Things Grow", and Peter Hudson's new publication.)

Before these songs, Aboriginal Australia wasn't much represented beyond Jimmy Little's cover of Burl Ives' song "Royal Telephone" and Lionel Rose's "I Thank You" and perhaps Harold Blair (classical singer) - and it stayed that way for quite some time!!


I didn't mention another song from during the 60s (when I was a teenager), that affected me :
Lionel Long (yeah, I know!), singing Leon Gellert's poem "Anzac Cove". I found this so sad. I guess even more so, as WWI had robbed me of a Grandfather. I vowed that one day I would visit this sad and desolate place. I almost got the chance in 1977, but my travelling partner became very ill and so, it never happened. (Nowadays, I have absolutely no desire to go and to be surrounded by jingoistic, flag-draped teens shouting "Aussie Aussie Aussie : Oi! Oi! Oi!" ..… sigh ..… )

Others that deserve a place in the pantheon, too :
Geoff Mack's "I've Been Everywhere", sung by Lucky Starr, has spawned a squillion version around the world – highly influential!
Redgum's "I Was Only 19"
Archie Roach's "Took the Children Away"
Hmmmm .... and perhaps the repercussions of The BeeGees' song "Spicks and Specks" are still being felt!!

The theme music to various TV dramas … "You Can't See Round Corners" / "Wildside" / "Rush" / "Aunty Jack", spring to mind ….
….. and as has been mentioned, tunes like "Bombora" that influenced others, plus the style of The Easybeats ("Sorry" and Friday on My Mind", for example), and a number of other groups besides …..

"The Streets of Forbes" and "The Death of Ben Hall" always moved me, as did the previously mentioned "Weevils in the Flour aka Island in the River" (Hewitt/Leyden)


But that's enough from me for now!
Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:15 PM

The three categories make a world of difference.
Under these headings I'd be for starting all over. Many of the suggested songs will not fit under these headings.
So these songs do not need to be well known then? And they need to have been written here?
OK for starters:
1. From Don Henderson -- "The Plastic Song". Early comment about an environmental problem. Rowan's mentioned the other one that come's to mind.
2. The 19th century miners' songs -- possibly all of them except "I'm Going Back to Bendigo" which is about how it's fun to be a miner.
3. All the convict songs that were written here. (a note of caution -- many of them weren't)

Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM

"It's on" was one of Don Henderson's widely sung songs.
"Poison Train" is one of Mike O'Rourke's better known songs.

I wasn't aware that Alistair Hulett was Australian. Come to think of it, I suspect several of the authors now regarded as Australian may have written the songs we now regard as Australian before they became naturalised. And we haven't yet got into definitions about songs written before Federation. Thank goodness for Matthew Flinders!

Some of which may put "God save the King/Queen" in a different light. Various wearers of various uniforms might argue that the anthem was quite important to their understanding (and efforts to preserve) democracy as they understood it and was, therefore, "influential". In my own case, I was so bored by its main melody (played every Monday morning) that I started singing along to the part played by the Eb cornet in the cadets' band; this was most influential on teaching me part singing, which I have used democratically and to further democracy.

But I too am only a researcher, although I am also a curator.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:26 PM

Found Mike O'Rouke thanks and the whole world of country comes brimming over.
I'm yet to run into a Lee Kernaghan suggestion but I know he's a legend. Then there's Sara Storer and Troy Cassar-Daley just to touch the tip of an iceberg. The Pigrams from Broome, Kerrianne Cox and little known giant of the nuanced country ballad Peter Brandy.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:07 PM

I get a rap over the knuckles because I polarise the situation with demcracy the way I see it. This is not an official stance by any means. I believe that while we are a constitutional monarchy we are not a democracy. Other people have no trouble in seeing that we can coexist both as a monarchy and a democracy. I guess the English are good at that. I hear that. I don't agree, and that is my point of view.
In either case the Living Democracy section of MoAD (Museum of Australian Democracy) is concerned with active democratic processes, with the people's voice and the way that voice is expressed. That is the context in which these songs will be placed. I realise if I'd said that earlier perhaps the terms of reference for "Australian Songs of Influence" would have directed this thread differently. Though I clearly feel what that means you are helping define in words what it means.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:49 PM

Thanks Sandra
Sorry Joy we are working it out as we go. This is new and there is no one answer but we will attempt to make it as interesting and representative as is possible. It is from the advice of people who care about what is included that we can best make our choices. As I've said the songs chosen are meant to make people think about the richness and diversity of people's voices in Australia and not to pretend it's a best of, or top 20, or some specific goal oriented achievement. Hopefully it will be open to discussion and change. There is certainly an emphasis on the diversity of voices that make Australian songs. The idea started off as "Protest Songs" but after some discussion with the curator we shifted to "Songs of Influence".

I had some help yesterday from within the walls of OPH defining three broad categories as:
1 Songs of protest and complaint
2 Songs of struggle
3 Songs of Democratic achievement

I think there are more ways to sub-categorise it and you have already offered quite a number.
I have to express my ignorance of Mike O'Rouke. I'll check him out.

With Don Henderson, I offered "Thirty Ton Line". Any other suggestions?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM

Many of the songs by Don Henderson (1937-1991) need consideration, in my opinion. Many were well-known and frequently sung during the 60s, 70s, 80s. The National Library has details.
There's also Mike O'Rouke - from the Atherton Tableland.

Reading the list of songs to be included leaves me wondering if I've been somewhere else for 64 years. There are so few I've heard let alone been influenced by. That's not to say they aren't worthy songs. Guess I still don't understand the criteria.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 08:50 PM

Dominique, You need to add "in Australia" to the title "Billy Barlow". Australia most certainly can't lay claim to any of the songs just called "Billy Barlow".
Cheers, Joy
(author of "Hey Ho Raggedy-O - a Study of the Billy Barlow Phenomenon".


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