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BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)

maeve 06 Nov 10 - 12:05 AM
gnu 06 Nov 10 - 06:37 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Nov 10 - 01:00 PM
katlaughing 20 Nov 10 - 01:36 PM
Desert Dancer 21 Nov 10 - 12:49 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Nov 10 - 02:08 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 21 Nov 10 - 05:09 PM
dick greenhaus 21 Nov 10 - 05:27 PM
gnu 21 Nov 10 - 05:40 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Nov 10 - 06:06 PM
katlaughing 21 Nov 10 - 06:15 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Nov 10 - 08:10 PM
Lonesome EJ 22 Nov 10 - 11:36 AM
frogprince 22 Nov 10 - 11:56 AM
Lonesome EJ 22 Nov 10 - 12:18 PM
SINSULL 22 Nov 10 - 12:46 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Nov 10 - 02:52 PM
Lonesome EJ 22 Nov 10 - 03:31 PM
gnu 22 Nov 10 - 03:41 PM
Jeri 22 Nov 10 - 03:41 PM
SINSULL 22 Nov 10 - 08:06 PM
maeve 22 Nov 10 - 08:16 PM
Lonesome EJ 22 Nov 10 - 08:23 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Nov 10 - 05:44 PM
Donuel 23 Nov 10 - 09:32 PM
Lonesome EJ 24 Nov 10 - 04:20 PM
LadyJean 25 Nov 10 - 03:00 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: maeve
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 12:05 AM

Here it is, gnu:

The script

Bob Newhart and Tobacco (Sir Walter Raleigh skit)


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: gnu
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:37 AM

That's the one... or a version of it. Thanks m.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 01:00 PM

Mark Twain on Thanksgiving-

"Thanksgiving Day, a function which originated in New England two or three centuries ago when those people recognized that they really had something to be thankful for- annually, not oftener- if they had succeeded in exterminating their neighbors, the Indians, during the previous twelve months instead of getting exterminated by their neighbors the Indians. Thanksgiving Day became a habit, for the reason that in the course of time, as the years drifted on, it was perceived that the exterminating had ceased to be mutual and was all on the white man's side, consequently on the Lord's side, consequently it was proper to thank the Lord for it."

From his recently published autobiography.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 01:36 PM

Brilliant, both Newhart and Twain. Thanks, maeve and Q!


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 12:49 PM

The Pilgrims Were ... Socialists?

"In the Tea Party view of the holiday, the first settlers were actually early socialists. They realized the error of their collectivist ways and embraced capitalism, producing a bumper year, upon which they decided that it was only right to celebrate the glory of the free market and private property.

"Historians quibble with this interpretation."

Details at the link...

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 02:08 PM

Everybody rewrites history in their own image.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 05:09 PM

Earliest thanksgivings in the colonies derived from Guy Fawkes Day celebrations via the book of common prayer

http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/guy/html/thanksgiving.html


Guy Fawkes Day and Thanksgiving


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 05:27 PM

Point of information:
Green Bean Casserole was invented by the folks that manufacture Campbell Soups, in an attempt to demonstrate their product's versatility. French's Fried Onions were also a product of the same company (I'm not sure about the beans.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 05:40 PM

Q.... indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 06:06 PM

Many types of 'green beans'. In NE U. S., refers to the string bean or spap bean, a type of P. vulgaris.
They can be damn tasty, regardless of whose recipe, Campbell's or other. We buy them frozen here in winter, and use them in chicken pot pies and stews. In summer, you have to get to the market early to avoid the elbows of shoppers picking through the pile.

The casserole, popular in some areas of the U. S. at Thanksgiving, usually is composed of the beans, french onions and mushroom soup.
Raised in the west, I had never eaten the casserole, until I spent a Thanksgiving with friends in New Jersey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 06:15 PM

We had never heard of it out here in WY or Co, either. I did learn of it back East, but hope to never be "exposed" to it, again.:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 08:10 PM

Campbells first marketed their Cream of Mushroom soup in 1934, but snapbean casserole recipes go back before then. I have one that calls for cream sauce, but says cream of mushroom soup may be used as a substitute.

Green Bean Casserole

2 pkg. French-style frozen beans, thawed
1 can water chestnuts
1 can bean sprouts, drained
1 large can sliced mushrooms
1 med. onion, chopped.
2 cups medium cream sauce
   (or cream of mushroom soup)
Salt to taste
Grated cheese to taste.
1 can French-fried onions.

Layer half the beans, water chestnuts, bean sprouts, mushrooms and onions in 2-qt casserole. Cover with half the cream sauce; sprinkle with salt and cheese. Repeat layers. Bake at 400F for c. 20 minutes. Top with onions; bake for 10 minutes longer or until bubbly. Sherry may be added. May be prepared a day ahead and refrigerated.

From Beta Sigma Phi Holiday Cookbook. (no date)

Campbell's Classic Green Bean Casserole

1 can (10 3/4 oz) Campbell's Condensed Cream of Mushroom soup
(regular, 98% fat-free or Healthy request)
1/2 cup milk
1 teaspoon soy sauce
Dash ground black pepper
4 cups cooked cut green beans or 2 pkg frozen, thawed
1 1/3 cups French's French Fried Onions

Stir soup, milk, soy, pepper, beans and 2/3 cup onions in a 1 1/2 quart casserole.
Bake at 350F for 25 minutes or until the bean mixture is hot and bubbling. Stir. Sprinkle with the remaining onions.
Bake for 5 minutes or until the onions are golden brown.

www.campbellskitchen.com/recipedetail.aspx?recipeId=24099

Reminds me of the broccoli-French Fried Onion-Cream of mushroom soup casserole recipe we occasionally use, from the classic White Trash Cooking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 11:36 AM

Dick Greenhaus said Green Bean Casserole was invented by the folks that manufacture Campbell Soups, in an attempt to demonstrate their product's versatility. French's Fried Onions were also a product of the same company (I'm not sure about the beans.) This is just some misinformation conjured up by the powerful anti-John Rolfe lobby.
I am susceptible to the charms of the green bean casserole. What I notice is the disproportionate cost of the fried onions in comparison to the other ingredients. Its like 5 bucks for a 16 ounce can. And basically, as far as I can tell, there is absolutely no other reasonable recipe that uses them as a component.
What I grew up eating in Kentucky and never developed an affection for is those damned candied yams with melted marshmallows on them. Its like a big mouthful of extra-sweet mush, and I fail to see how that enhances the flavor of turkey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 11:56 AM

The candied yam plague had spread in the midwest, too, by at least 60 years ago. I never could imagine why anyone would want to eat that, short of desperate starvation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 12:18 PM

fp, as far as I can tell, nobody wants them. Inevitably, the candied yam dish gets passed around with someone occasionally removing a tablespoonful which probably ends up getting scraped into the garbage can.
Toward the end of dinner, the hostess goes into the hard sell mode on them. "Did everybody get some of Aunt Thelma's delicious candied yams?" she says, holding up the dish and brandishing a spoonful of the ungodly mixture. Everyone then mutters something about oh yes they were wonderful but I just couldn't eat another thing, which effectively cuts you off from third helpings of the really good stuff. Then the hostess will still insist on passing the yam casserole around while Aunt Thelma looks crestfallen, and so I generally take yet another disgusting dollop, which I break into sections and merge with other leftovers on my plate.
Can't we all just agree that we don't like the yams prior to Thanksgiving Dinner and suggest to Thelma that she bring something innocuous like jello with grapes in it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 12:46 PM

I don't know guys. I have a Pilgrim teddy bear dressed in black that tells a ten minute narration of the original Thanksgiving. The Indians were invited as a thank you for teaching the immigrants how to grow corn. Are you telling me that Hallmark would lie?
I plan on inflicting this device on family and friends on Thursday. I bet my great grandnephew will want to play it more than once. heh heh
I don't believe we will have to eat gloppy string beans but there definitely be creamed onions.
Happy Thanksgiving all.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 02:52 PM

No, we can't all agree not to have candied yams. A princely dish. But the recipe is incomplete without pecans. Ofter had at New Year's.

Many recipes use fried onions. Good fried onions are not dry like French's.

Glazed Yams with Pecan Topping
(red-skinned), about 4 large (4 pounds)
Peel and cut into rounds, about 1/4 inch thick

1/2 cup pure maple syrup
1 stick (1/4 pound) chilled butter, cut in pieces
1/3 cup flour
1/3 cup packed brown or golden sugar
1/2 cup chopped pecans
(Optional- top with whole pecans)

Put yam slices in boiling salted water. Cook until water starts to bubble again. Drain and rinse in cold water.

Butter baking dish, about 9 x 13 inches. Put in yams, overlap slightly. Dot with 1/3 of the butter.
Bake at 375-400 F for about 25 minutes until yams moderately tender.
Mix flour and sugar, add remaining butter. Rub until mixture resembles coarse meal. Mix in chopped pecans.
Sprinkle pecan mixture on yams.
(Optional, add pecan halves as topping after baking the dish for about 15 minutes).
Bake for about 20 minutes at 375-400 F.
Can be covered and allowed to cool. Can be re-warmed (uncovered) at 350-375 F for 20 minutes prior to serving.

Many variants using mashed yams.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 03:31 PM

sounds considerably better than Aunt Thelma's, q. Still, it also sounds like more of a dessert to me, and I'm saving room for the pumpkin pie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: gnu
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 03:41 PM

Pumpkin pie... and strong tea... mmmmmmmmm. Me mum used to bake three.. two large and one small, the small to be set in front of Dad upon extracation from the hob, immediately!


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 03:41 PM

I love mashed sweet potatoes, with butter, salt and pepper and nothing else. Of course, I grew up with yams with brown sugar and butter. We never had pecans, but I don't think they'd do anything but improve the dish. You can stick those marshmallows someplace else, though.

I LIKE green bean casserole!


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:06 PM

What's a hob?


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: maeve
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:16 PM

Hob = stove, Sinsull.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:23 PM

therefore, by process of deduction, a hob-goblin would be a mischievious spirit who possesses your oven?
That's the kind of folkloric question that could just hoist this thread above the BS line...


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:44 PM

To answer SINSULL, a hob (hub) is a projection or device, usually to one side of a fireplace, on which something could be placed or hung to keep warm. In print in the 1500s as hub, 1600s as hob. Several other meanings.

Hobgoblin (OED) in print in 1530, origin unknown. About the same time, a hob could be an elf, a spirit, etc. so it could be a word with a double emphasis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:32 PM

Glen Beck has spent 2 weeks describing exactly how people are to now celebrate Thanksgiving. Its getting more complicated every year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 04:20 PM

Beck, being as full of shit as a holiday fowl, is uniquely qualified for that job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving historical corrections (USA)
From: LadyJean
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 03:00 PM

Merci Bien Nancy King for the Buchwald Thanksgiving, which I remember with affection.

I reccomend reading "The Mayflower", which tells of the rather Byzantine nature of the relations between the Pilgrims and the Indians. Incidentally, not all settlers at Plymouth Plantation were "Pilgrims". Some of them were Anglicans and not particularly puritanical. The Billington family being a prime example.


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Mudcat time: 21 October 4:48 AM EDT

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