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BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration

Amos 03 Nov 08 - 05:56 PM
jimmyt 03 Nov 08 - 06:00 PM
Rapparee 03 Nov 08 - 06:03 PM
Amos 03 Nov 08 - 06:07 PM
Joe Offer 03 Nov 08 - 06:12 PM
artbrooks 03 Nov 08 - 06:26 PM
Amos 03 Nov 08 - 06:38 PM
Rapparee 03 Nov 08 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Arkie 03 Nov 08 - 06:54 PM
Bobert 03 Nov 08 - 07:38 PM
Amos 03 Nov 08 - 07:50 PM
Bill D 03 Nov 08 - 08:04 PM
Charley Noble 03 Nov 08 - 08:33 PM
beardedbruce 03 Nov 08 - 08:39 PM
Joe_F 03 Nov 08 - 08:45 PM
GUEST,pattyClink 04 Nov 08 - 04:58 PM
Amos 04 Nov 08 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 04 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM
Sawzaw 04 Nov 08 - 07:30 PM
Bobert 04 Nov 08 - 07:51 PM
Amos 05 Nov 08 - 01:02 AM
frogprince 05 Nov 08 - 01:05 AM
Amos 05 Nov 08 - 01:07 AM
CarolC 05 Nov 08 - 01:34 AM
Barry Finn 05 Nov 08 - 02:38 AM
Amos 05 Nov 08 - 11:13 AM
beardedbruce 05 Nov 08 - 04:35 PM
Sawzaw 05 Nov 08 - 05:14 PM
Gervase 05 Nov 08 - 05:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Nov 08 - 05:56 PM
Amos 05 Nov 08 - 06:00 PM
Sawzaw 05 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM
Sawzaw 05 Nov 08 - 06:36 PM
Ebbie 05 Nov 08 - 06:50 PM
Barry Finn 05 Nov 08 - 07:03 PM
Amos 05 Nov 08 - 07:47 PM
Sawzaw 05 Nov 08 - 09:47 PM
Sawzaw 05 Nov 08 - 09:50 PM
Amos 05 Nov 08 - 11:34 PM
Amos 06 Nov 08 - 06:33 PM
Ebbie 06 Nov 08 - 07:05 PM
Don Firth 06 Nov 08 - 08:18 PM
Amos 10 Nov 08 - 10:11 AM
Amos 10 Nov 08 - 11:39 AM
Amos 10 Nov 08 - 01:21 PM
Amos 14 Nov 08 - 09:28 AM
Ron Davies 14 Nov 08 - 09:57 PM
Rapparee 14 Nov 08 - 10:13 PM
Amos 15 Nov 08 - 12:04 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 16 Nov 08 - 11:43 AM
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Subject: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 05:56 PM

I would like to start this new thread by inviting anyone who feels disappointed about the election of President-elect Obama to think about his statements: there is not a blue America and a red America--we are one nation, and we all have work to do and responsibility to take in making the future better.

With that sentiment in mind, what needs to be done? WHo, how and where should the Obama administration place its priorities to turn around the divisions and bitternesses that have poisoned our nation for the last many years, and start healing its Union, and its economy, and its repute, and its political framework. And, above all, its hopeful future?

A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:00 PM

Amos, my friend, I hope you are right. I will support the president as I have always done, and I know I get criticised for this, but I have real fears for the economy because I simply do not think the numbers make any sense. I hope I have made a serious mistake and there are brighter days ahead soon, but in my heart of hearts, I am fearful. Having said that, I do feel that there will be a better sense of togethernessin the nation and this can only be good for the nation.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:03 PM

I think this should be moved to BS.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:07 PM

Jimmy:

We have all lived with fear for many years now.

We have feared mythical weapons and non-existant missiles. We have feared imaginary threats to the fabric of democracy. We have been taught to fear each other, the "others" of different persuasion, religion, sexual flavor, gender, color, nation of birth.

It is time for us all to throw off fear and speak from our common humanity about what is clearly right, what is plainly good, what is possible if we throw off fear and instead choose to generate energy toward the possible.

Thanks for your thoughtful words.

A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:12 PM

You'd think that after all these years of political thread, Amos would know where to find the BS button.
Below, below, below....
And the politickers lie down below.

-Joe O-


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:26 PM

Have you seen today's Doonesbury? Let's not forget that priority!


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:38 PM

Art:

Surely the deepest and best gift we can give our troops is to build a nation of which they can be proud.

That is something every American can believe in.

A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:49 PM

I think bringing 'em safely home to honor and promises KEPT would be a damned fine start.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:54 PM

America has seen several campaigns exploiting fears and special interests and while both parties may have been guilty to a degree the Republicans in the last decade have cultivated the exploitation of cultural division to a level that I cannot remember having seen before. The fact that so many prominent conservatives and Republicans have endorsed Obama at least gives hope that those who truly care about the country whatever party will be willing to work together to create some unity in this country. I do believe that Obama will attempt to lead in this direction. Since he has demonstrated a remarkable self-control when confronted with personal slurs, lies, and misinformation, my hope is that he will set a standard for his own party as well. I do not think we will ever see a time when all Americans agree on every issue and I do not think it would healthy if they did. But we all do have some common interest and we need a leader with the vision to bring about responsible government that serves everyone in the country and who can bring together people of varying interests, help them find the common ground and work out responsible decisions. I would seriously doubt that we will see a quick solutions to the economic problems but we need to start instead of resorting to denial, more borrowing, and printing more script.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 07:38 PM

Well, I have given this more thought than I should have... Yeah, I should have bought into this Democrtaic paranoi (Florida, 2000; Ohio 2004) but I think that Barack Obama will win this and I think that will be fortunate for the country because...

...he is a cool customer and that5's what America needs at this time... Wheather or not he becomes a 2nd FDR we'll see... What whe have seen is a guy who absolutely won't make decisions based on hunch or emotion... That's a good thing...

But, yeah, as my buddy JimmyT has pointed out, the economy is #1, #2 and #3... I know that Obama has very close ties to Warren Buffet but I think that he'll work well with current Fed chairman, Ben Bernacke... But he needs to also create some good feeling so look for Robert Gates to be kept at Defense... Look for Colin Powell to return to State... And Richard Lugar will also be pulled in... Not sure where but this will show, unlike what Bush did in 2000, that Obama means to govern all the people....

Now back to the economy... Obama is going to have to accept McCain's proposal to buy up forclosure loans where the homeowner can reasonably pay at 6% fixed for 30 years... This will stabilize the housing market and is exactly what FDR did in 1933 with his Home Loan Corp.... But Obama is going to have to take this one step further and sell the American people on a perminent Home Loan Corp. and use the principle tyo repay the4 taxpayers initial outlay and the interest to go into shoring up Social Security....


Most of these things I feel strongly he will do...

Now we just gotta go and stand in the luines to make it happen because...

a McCain administration will be like a human pinball with no cohesive narrative and no real plan...

B~


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 07:50 PM

Well, I certainly agree.

I would like to hear from DougR, Sawz, and BB what they think an Obama administration should do as a first set of priorities for the net good of the nation.

A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 08:04 PM

Whoever wins with inherit a lot of problems. There 'could' be even be MORE problems by Jan. 20.

I think the world in general will relax with Obama as president, and that should make his work a bit easier.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 08:33 PM

Well, Obama will basically be stepping aboard a trainwreck. Our economy is in shambles. We are overextended overseas in terms of our military commitments. The energy crisis has eased but only because our economic woes have significantly reduced our demand for oil. The national debt has doubled during the last 8 years and just paying the interest will take a large portion of our tax dollars, and send them overseas to China and the Middle East.

But I certainly expect that Obama will do his best to deal with this challenge. That's why I've been supporting him, and the best I can do on my own is play banjo and set old poems to music.

One of Obama's strongest points is his understanding of the importance of organizing for change, and it is the major reason his campaign has overwhelmed the McCain campaign while confounding the pundits. He will have his chance to demonstrate his skills with a new Democratically controlled Congress.

Even if Obama doesn't succeed in implementing his major policy initiatives in the first hundred days (which I don't necessarily expect to happen), a whole lot of people, here and abroad, will still take satisfaction that a person of his character and experience can be elected President.

Think about that!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 08:39 PM

Should, or will??


"I think the world in general will relax with Obama as president"

Is an opinion. I might hope so, but do not see this as likely.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 08:45 PM

This company may recall that during the primary campaign I wished for something that was not going to happen &, sure enough, didn't. Likewise, at this juncture, I wish the new president, whichever he is, would say in his inaugural address: "This government does not have, does not need, and does not claim the power to turn the USA into a police state".


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:58 PM

First thing, cut off the corporate bullies who have been steering our ship of state. Make them persona non grata and their money too.

Second thing, take a wrench to Congress' idiotic rules before they mindlessly re-instate them in January unchanged. Ditch the committees, the seniority, the omnibus bills, the phony Record, all the crap.

Third thing, triple the budgets of every regulatory agency, give them their teeth back, and turn them loose in behalf of the general welfare: FDA, FCC, FTC, USDA, whatever.

Then take a little break.

Fourth, get the economy away from the cliff, by public works projects, and by incentivizing job creation and non-outsourcing, even if it takes tariffs, before our industrial engine is completely gone.

Fifth, dismantle the big investment banks bit by bit and lets start over with little bitty banks.

That'll be a good start.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:25 PM

A fine program, ma'a'm!!!


A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM

As a complete package, I can go along with that.



But I suspect the second point will be overlooked, as soon as the party in power realizes that they can run roughshod over the rest of us.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:30 PM

Amos:

I don't feel disappointed at all but I point out Obama's dirty deal to get support from the Unions to get elected is an impeachable offense.

The "Employee Free Choice Act" takes away the right to a secret ballot.

It is unconstitutional ans Obama needs to be impeached immediately.

The Constitution of the United States of America

The foundation of our American Government, its purpose and form and structure are found in the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution, written in 1787, is the "supreme law of the land" because no law may be passed that contradicts its principles. No person or government is exempt from following it.

The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot. It is a republic because the Government derives its power from the people.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:51 PM

Ahhhhhh, Sawz.... I don't know where you are getting your info but it certainly ain't correct... The act provides for secret ballots without management oversight...

This bill is intended to strengthen unions so that we can end a 30 years slide in real wages paid to the working class...

You have a problem with that???

B~


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:02 AM

The people of the United States tonight have elected Barack Obama as their voice and theor representative, and their President Elect.

This is an incredible moment. In it, we are seeing the beginning of a new generation of American possibility and hope.

I am amazed and grateful that I could be here to see this happen.


A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:05 AM

Oh, listen; the lovely sound of the yellow-bellied guest peckerwood!

Nope. In the BS section, Guests who don't sign-in get deleted.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:07 AM

They are part of America.

They hold out for a vision of what is right, and what will be good.

The confusions of their voices will clarify and the hardness of their hearts, I can hope, will open, and soften.

This a large night for all Americans.



A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:34 AM

I like it. That's my popular view of the Obama administration. :-D


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 02:38 AM

BB
What you just heard was the world breathing a huge sigh of relief, they are dancing in the streets of Everywhere.

Barry


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:13 AM

"There are tens of millions of white Americans who are part of ethnic groups that have never produced a president," Boaz writes. "The fact is, all 42 of our presidents have been of British, Irish, or Germanic descent. We've never had a president of southern or eastern European ancestry. Despite the millions of Americans who came to the New World from France, Italy, Poland, Spain, Scandinavia, Russia, and other parts of Europe–not to mention Asia and the Arab world and Latin America–we've never had a president who traced his ancestry to those parts of the world." Boaz later adds:

As Philip Q. Yang put it in his book Ethnic Studies: Issues and Approaches, "There have been no presidents of southern and eastern European descent; and none of Jewish, African, Latino, Asian, or Indian descent." We've had 37 presidents of British (English, Scottish, or Welsh) or Irish descent; three of Dutch descent (Van Buren and the two Roosevelts); and two of Swiss/German descent (Hoover and Eisenhower). Of course, these categories usually refer to the president's paternal line; Reagan, for instance, was Irish on his father's side but not on his mother's. But that doesn't change the overall picture.

In this light, Obama's achievement is even more remarkable. He has achieved something that no American politician even of southern or eastern European heritage has managed. But I think we can assume that from now on there won't be any perceived disadvantage to candidates of Italian, French, Asian, or other previous genealogies not previously seen in the White House. For that, congratulations to Barack Obama." (NYT)
         
Comments:



We made a decision tonight, we decided against self-interest and for the greater good. I can't wait to help.

— Anne V

2. November 5, 2008
1:28 am



I really doubt that there was "any perceived disadvantage to candidates of Italian, French" or any other white ethnicity to gaining the White House. What Obama already has accomplished is far more historic.

— Miande

3. November 5, 2008
2:30 am



While Barack Obama may not be from Southern or Eastern ancestry he does represent the melting pot that the Statue of Liberty embraces. A white woman from Kansas and a black man from Kenya at a time where miscegenation was still against the law in at least one state in America. He does represent in a very real and anthropological sense all of us, I volunteered for Obama and I believe that his campaign and the melding of people with technology will be a paradigm for all future political campaigns. That being said does it really matter where he is from we will always see color but we should also learn to see beyond that and recognize that genetically we are more alike than we are different and thereby recognize that we have to make decisions that are for the greater good rather than individual self-interest.

— Lawrence W

4. November 5, 2008
2:37 am



My hope is this man, Barack Obama, will be the real "uniter", reach across the aisles, appoint people who are competent in their jobs. I hope this is the man who will be for everyone regardless of color, creed, origin, because this is America. I have a really good feeling about him. He has an enormous task ahead of him, but I think people will help him any way they can.

— miria s

5. November 5, 2008
6:00 am



This is a great achievement for all. The younger generation, which I am part of, has as well. I am so proud of what we have done with this election. I am currently studying in England at an American campus and the amount that we have watched the election is substantial. Many of us stayed up to watch debates, gone to lectures and most importantly, voted. We stood up for something we believed in, whatever it is, from thousands of miles away.

— Sandahl Masson


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 04:35 PM

The following article from the Washington Post expresses a number of my opinions and concerns- and I will express MY hopes that Obama will be held to the same standards that Bush was.






Hail to the Chief

By Michael Gerson
Wednesday, November 5, 2008; Page A26

I come to this moment of national decision with deep concerns about the next president. His victory is likely to unleash an ideological and vengeful Democratic Congress. In the testing of a long campaign, Barack Obama has seemed thoughtful but sometimes hesitant and unsure of his bearings. He promises outreach and healing but holds to a liberalism that sees no need for innovation. And as the result of a financial panic that unfairly undermined all Republicans, Obama has stumbled into the most dangerous kind of victory. A mandate for change but not for ideas. A mandate without clear meaning.

But a presidential election is more than a political choice; it is a moral dividing line. It involves not just the triumph of a majority but a transfer of legitimacy that binds the minority as well. This is a largely undiscussed topic in modern political debate: legitimacy. It is a kind of democratic magic that turns votes into authority. It does not require political agreement. It does imply a patriotic respect for the processes of government and a determination to honor the president for the sake of the office he holds.

In the past few decades, the magic of legitimacy has seemed to fade. Opponents of President Bill Clinton turned their disagreements (and Clinton's human failures) into an assault on his power. Some turned to insane conspiracy theories, including accusations of politically motivated murder. After President Bush's reelection, elements of the left began their own attack on his legitimacy, talking of impeachment while repeating lunatic theories about deception and criminality.

After a deserved honeymoon, the new president is likely to find that the intensity of this bitterness has only gathered. Because of the ideological polarization of cable television news, talk radio and the Internet, Americans can now get their information from entirely partisan sources. They can live, if they choose to, in an ideological world of their own creation, viewing anyone outside that world as an idiot or criminal, and finding many who will cheer their intemperance. Liberals have perfected this machinery of disdain over the past few years. Given the provocation, the same approach is likely to be turned against the new president by the right as well.

Barack Obama's first years may well be dominated by a recession and a swiftly arming Iran. Some conservatives will be tempted to take joy from his inevitable struggles; others to spin conspiracy theories from his background and associations. It will be easy to blame every emerging challenge on the faults and failures of an inexperienced young president. But it will be more difficult for me.

I remember the vivid days of possibility that follow a presidential victory. I happened to be in the Roosevelt Room in January 2001 just as the portrait of Teddy Roosevelt, heroic on horseback, was moved over the fireplace, where it hangs during Republican administrations. And I know that someone, feeling the same hope and burden that I felt, will be watching when Franklin Roosevelt is moved back to the place of honor.

There is a tremendous sense of history and responsibility that comes with serving in the White House. You gain an appreciation for the conflicted choices others have faced -- and for the untamed role of history in frustrating the best of plans. It becomes easier to understand a president's challenges and harder to question his motives. Ultimately, I believe that every president, and the staff he hires, feels the duty to serve a single national interest. And, ultimately, we need our presidents to succeed, not to fail for our own satisfaction or vindication.

This presidency in particular should be a source of pride even for those who do not share its priorities. An African American will take the oath of office blocks from where slaves were once housed in pens and sold for profit. He will sleep in a house built in part by slave labor, near the room where Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation with firm hand. He will host dinners where Teddy Roosevelt in 1901 entertained the first African American to be a formal dinner guest in the White House; command a military that was not officially integrated until 1948. Every event, every act, will complete a cycle of history. It will be the most dramatic possible demonstration that the promise of America -- so long deferred -- is not a lie.

I suspect I will have many substantive criticisms of the new administration, beginning soon enough. Today I have only one message for Barack Obama, who will be our president, my president: Hail to the chief.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:14 PM

Stocks plunge as anxious investors ponder impact of Obama presidency on business, economy

Wednesday November 5
NEW YORK (AP) -- A case of postelection nerves sent Wall Street plunging Wednesday as investors absorbing a stream of bad economic news wondered how a Barack Obama presidency will help the country weather a possibly severe recession. Volatility returned to the market, with the Dow Jones industrials falling nearly 500 points and all the major indexes tumbling more than 5 percent.

The market was expected to give back some gains after a six-day runup that lifted the Standard & Poor's 500 index more than 18 percent. But investors lost some of their recent confidence about the economy and began dumping stocks again; light volume helped exaggerate the price swings....


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:55 PM

Stocks plunge when there's a rumour that a sparrow has farted, for heaven's sake. Anyone who adjusts their jib according to the markets is a fool led by bigger imbeciles.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:56 PM

a liberalism that sees no need for innovation. By definition that would have to mean "a conservative liberalism".


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:00 PM

They soared yesterday as he was winning, Sawz.

Get bent, pal.

Climb out of your grimy trench of blame and shame, and walk out into some sunshine; you will feel better.



A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM

"and no real plan" "Obama is going to have to accept McCain's proposal to buy up forclosure loans"

Bobert:

Not to be antagonistic or derogatory or anything but I think you need to have the left and right lobes of your brain connected together. You contradict yourself every few sentences or words. It looks like you are trying to be gracious to Mac but then you claim he had no plan.

Now as to the "Employee Free Choice Act", did you check it out at all before you made the statement? That is how you get in the position of having to defend the indefensible with bluster, threats and namecalling.

Why does George McGovern claim ii will take away the secret ballot?

I know the name sounds ducky but the name belies the actual contents of the bill.

Remember Phil Gramm and Mac's GLBA bill that unleashed the subprime debacle? It was called the Financial Services Modernization Act and it was supposed to keep banks from sharing your personal information.

One of labor's top agenda items for at least the last two years has been the Employee Free Choice Act, which would strip employees from the secret ballot in deciding whether to form a union. The measure was defeated earlier, but will doubtlessly get a second hearing with an Obama administration.

I know this is going to break down into a Business vs Union battle but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:36 PM

Amos really likes to read his own rhetorical flourishes. All kinds of stuff about one eyed snakes and people in the sunlight. A real wordsmith.

The stock market was going up until he won.

Or in Amos speak, The equities trading market was on an upward incline until such time as it was made clear the the Democratic candidate would be in control of the financial destiny of the citizens of the United States of America. Whereupon they took the President Elect's campaign promise to increase the rate of the capital gains tax which would therefore and thereby reduce the net profits arising from any scant profits that could be realized at this time, and therefore decided to pull the plug on a quantity of their investments thereby causing the equities trading market to redirect itself on a downward incline which, by the end of the trading day following the election, resulted in a 5.05 percentage point reduction of the Dow Jones Industrial average price of equities.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:50 PM

"The "Employee Free Choice Act" will not repeal "Right to Work" regulations, as established under the Taft-Hartley Act. "Right to Work" states establish that membership in an organized labor union can not be compulsory for employment.

"On March 1, 2007, the House of Representatives passed the act by a vote of 241 to 185. The Senate on June 26, 2007 voted 51 to 48 on a motion to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed to consider the bill. The bill is unlikely to pass during the 110th United States Congress because 60 votes were needed to invoke cloture." Wikipedia

I hope Big Mick comes strolling by. I'd like to hear his views. In the video, McGovern doesn't detail in what way(s) a vote would not be private.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 07:03 PM

BB
Bush hasn't held himself up to any standards nor has he set any standards. He has been throughout his whole "occupancy" way below par & has lowered the bar to rock bottom.
Obama already has surpassed Bush, did you listen to his speech. Not one grammatical error, not one umm, huh, his ideas came across clear & concise; there was no confusion as to what he said. I was thrilled to finally hear a leader of ours that could talk on an intelligent level for the 1st time in 8 yrs.
So, he has so far surpassed the standards that Bush was held to & we are not even at day one, so don't fear there'll be far more important issues than standards to care about.

Barry


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 07:47 PM

Jeeze, Sawz, lookit you go, talking up a blue streak.   I gotta say, I yam most impressed at your loqucious polysyllabic circumlocutions.


A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:47 PM

And I suppose you think that is a virtue? I think it is obfuscation. As an example, Amos cannot offer a reason for why the stock market went down today.

He prefers to sit back and say someone else is wrong with wordy superfluous personal attacks like "Climb out of your grimy trench of blame and shame, and walk out into some sunshine; you will feel better."

Hey Amos, what kind of a trench are you in that keeps you from addressing the issue instead of attacking someone?

Can Ebbie read the bill and make up her own mind or does she a man to figure things out and do the heavy lifting?

Hey Mick, Ebbie here needs a big strong man help with her thinking and protect her.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:50 PM

Amos: "Sawz, and BB what they think an Obama administration should do as a first set of priorities for the net good of the nation"

Get rid of the Employee Free Choice Act.

Do not raise taxes on capital gains.

Drill Drill Drill


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:34 PM

Well, nasty-boy, I think the market went up and down for the same reasons it has been rollercoastering like a rabid badger with the flue for the last six months. I seriously doubt the drop of one day, a drop completely consistent with the generall trend, was severely influenced by Obama vs. McCain. Nor have you produced any reason for thinking so, or any evidence it was a causative coupling.

Tell me what it is you think the Employee Free Choice Act does? The AFLCIO seems to like it. Wikipedia's article says:

he Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) is legislation in the United States which aims to "amend the National Labor Relations Act to establish an efficient system to enable employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to provide for mandatory injunctions for unfair labor practices during organizing efforts, and for other purposes."[1] Under current labor law, the U.S. National Labor Relations Board will certify a union as the exclusive representative of employees if it is elected by either a majority signature drive, the card check process, or by secret ballot NLRB election, which is held if more than 30% of employees in a bargaining unit sign statements asking for representation by a union. Pursuant to the bill, a union can demand that an employer begin bargaining with it 10 days after the union is certified as the exclusive bargaining representative for an appropriate unit of employees via the card check. [2] In addition, if the union and employer cannot agree upon the terms of a first collective bargaining contract within 90 days, either party can request federal mediation, which could lead to binding arbitration if an agreement still cannot be reached after 30 days of mediation. [3] Where government arbitration determines terms of the agreement, employees would lose their current right to ratify the terms of the agreement. [4] Finally, the Act would provide for liquidated damages of three times back pay if employers were found to have unlawfully terminated pro-union employees. [5] The EFCA also would impose a $20,000.00 penalty upon employers for each employer violation of the proposed legislation if the NLRB and/or a court deems the violation willful or repetitive. [6] [7]


What's the deal from your point of view, then?


A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 06:33 PM

How I see it: Reactions to the Obama victory

"I wish God speed to the man who was my former opponent and will be my president. I call on all Americans... to not despair of our present difficulties but to believe in the promise and greatness of America."

John McCain

"I am especially proud because this is a country that's been through a long journey inovercoming wounds, and making race not the factor in our lives. That work is not done, but yesterday was obviously an extra-ordinary step forward."

Condoleezza Rice

"Your victory has demonstrated that no personanywhere in the world should not dare to dream of wanting to change the world for a better place."

Nelson Mandela

"I congratulate President-elect Obama on his historic victory. Now it's time to begin unifying the country so we can take on the extraordinary challenges that this generation faces."

George Clooney

"It feels like hope won. It feels like it's not just victory for Barack Obama. It feels like America did the right thing. It feels like anything is now possible."

Oprah Winfrey


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:05 PM

"Can Ebbie read the bill and make up her own mind or does she a man to figure things out and do the heavy lifting?

"Hey Mick, Ebbie here needs a big strong man help with her thinking and protect her."

sheeit. Thou art a bitter, ineffectual, defeated person. Were I a man I would be embarrassed for you. As it is, I can pour a little magnamity in your direction, recognizing that you have suffered a nasty blow. Give it up, man. lol


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:18 PM

C'mon, Sawz. Your horse is dead! You can put down the whip now. Go have yourself a good cry.

Here's a Kleenex. Wipe your nose.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:11 AM

An interesting piece in the Times urges the vitalization of Obama's Volunteers--the unprecedented network of energetic youth who carried the water for his unprecedented campaign--toward starting now on social fabric issues such as poverty, using the same compelling network technology that succeeded int he campaign.


A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 11:39 AM

Comments from a political science professor:

"Many are urging President-elect Barack Obama to govern from the center, claiming that "middle-of-the-road" policies better suit a nation that remains "center-right." This advice carries particular weight coming from moderate Southern Democrats, whose states remained mostly red on Tuesday. But this is exactly the wrong advice because it mistakenly presumes that American politics is driven by labels. Americans are fed up with government by slogans. They hunger for workable solutions to their pressing problems.

Democrats have listened to this kind of conventional wisdom in the past, and failed. The centrist Georgia Democratic Party had exhausted its middle ground approach by 2000 and lacked new ideas tailored to the rapidly changing times. Moderate Democrats tried to stave off surging Republican realignment by running on Reaganesque rhetoric and governing with "Republican-lite" policies, but the voters preferred Republican government administered by genuine Republicans.

Former Gov. Roy Barnes joked that his educational reform was 90 percent Republican, but the joke was on him when Georgia's teachers, the core of any viable Democratic coalition in the state, led the tidal wave of rejection that sank state Democrats in 2002. And Bill Clinton, no matter how refreshing a breather during the Reagan-Bush era, was merely an interlude before the rightward lurch of the second President Bush.

We don't need a one-and-a-half party system, with the Democrats playing second fiddle to a hegemonic Republican Party. Instead, Democrats should look to North Carolina, where Obama and Senate victories showed what Democrats can accomplish when they strongly contest elections. In light of the surprising muscle flexed by Georgia Democrats on Tuesday, imagine the result if significant resources had been invested early and consistently in a forthright campaign to turn the state blue.

Americans are ideological "conservatives" —- in the abstract, they believe in less government. But in practice, they are "liberals" —- they want active government programs to help solve their problems, and they respond enthusiastically to proposals such as Obama's plans to restore middle-class tax cuts, extend health care, explore alternative energy sources, and reconfigure the war on terror. In other words, Americans don't want big government, but they do want effective government.

Ronald Reagan was actually only moderately successful in repealing government programs. George W. Bush took office determined to push the Reagan revolution to its logical extreme and finally translate taglines such as laissez faire, market solutions and individual responsibility into policies of deregulation and inaction (expansive foreign policy and military overcommitment aside). The result, we now see, was an economic, fiscal, environmental, energy, social and international train wreck.

Americans have real problems that aren't caused by their personal irresponsibility. It's not individual failure when your company ships your job to Taiwan, your employer doesn't provide health insurance or your policy doesn't cover what's actually making you sick, or your kids receive a third-rate education because your taxes are being squandered on neoconservative pipe dreams of dominating oil-rich regions abroad. Millions of hardworking Americans have played by the rules but, despite their diligence and responsibility, find themselves holding jobs that don't pay a living wage, discover that their pensions are worthless and awaken to the tanking values of their homes and savings, manipulated by unscrupulous and unregulated big investors. Laissez-faire government can't solve these problems; it simply enables the large transnational corporations and the small class of super-rich who, coddled and cajoled by the Republicans, have been breaking, or rewriting, the rules.

The way to effective 21st-century governance and a political realignment lies not through empty sloganeering about being centrist and in the middle of the road, but through developing an innovative public philosophy and matching policies that will build a stronger America. Obama, like Franklin Roosevelt, has impressive rhetorical skills, and clearly people need inspiration in times like the Depression (or now). But FDR didn't just give cozy fireside chats and soaring inaugural speeches; he brought the New Deal to a country desperate for a new departure.

..."


In these opening days of Obamerica, the guiding orientation of first steps can make all the difference.

I think the writer of the above piece has some valuable insights into the difference between too much government, and too ineffective a government. We should shun both and streive for a government that is just large enough to effectively provide the best playing field for the destiny of the individuals who make up America, their states, and their nation to be won.




A


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 01:21 PM

Part of a discussion between the president of the American Council of Germany, William Drozdiak, and der SPiegel staff:

"...Drozdiak: Former German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer called me and said it was amazing how America can reinvent itself. I get many such calls from Europe. But they are right: Who would have thought we can go straight from George W. Bush to a president like Obama?

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But won't Europeans be disillusioned when they realize Obama is just the President of the United States and not the world?

Drozdiak: I am expecting the opposite. Europeans are happy about the promise of an Obama administration. But relations should improve even more when they see the US is actually serious about ending unilateralism -- and shows for instance leadership on climate change.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But American voters elected Obama to deal with the economic crisis -- not to save the global climate.

Drozdiak: The financial crisis will be a top priority. His team already has people in the Treasury working on this. But I also expect Obama to sign an Executive Order on the day of his inauguration for a complete ban on torture. I expect him to do something about Guantanamo quickly. Congress might sign up to the International Criminal Court. All this would help trans-Atlantic relations a lot -- and I am sure a major climate change initiative would come very early, too.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How quickly would Obama ask for more German troops in the south of Afghanistan?

Drozdiak: The mission needs more troops there. However, Obama is also aware it is difficult for German politicians to commit soldiers in an election year. But I believe he would tell German Chancellor Angela Merkel and (German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier a leader sometimes needs to do the right thing -- even if only 20 percent of the population supports it.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Is more European help in Iraq such a thing, too?

Drozdiak: It would be difficult to ask the Europeans for more troops there. Obama could convene a regional conference which might lead to UN peacekeeping and more European military involvement. But the US focus will be Afghanistan.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Other foreign policy challenges might come soon. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev threatened to place short-term missiles near Poland in reaction to US missile plans.

Drozdiak: That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. It is pushing Obama into a corner. He is working on a smarter relationship with Russia which might include a revaluation of the missile plans or more cooperation on disarmament and nonproliferation -- but such remarks make it much harder for him because he could be portrayed as "weak" by Republicans for just thinking about it.

Drozdiak: The trip was a success. One should not underestimate the power of an image: So many Europeans listening to his speech. It drove home the message that Europeans are not anti-American -- they were anti-Bush.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Does that mean President Obama will return to Berlin soon? To speak at the Brandenburg Gate this time?

Drozdiak: His first Europe visit will probably be the NATO summit in Baden-Baden in April 2009. But, sure, he could come back to Berlin soon. And, given his popularity, he could speak right at the Gate - he would not have to go into hiding like President Bush.

..."


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:28 AM

A NY Times editorial; observer:

Democratic Pressure on Obama to Restore the Rule of Law
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By ADAM COHEN
Published: November 14, 2008
In a Senate hearing room in September, weeks before Barack Obama won the election, a series of law professors, lawyers and civil libertarians outlined one of the biggest challenges that will be facing the next president: bringing the United States government back under the rule of law.

Over the past eight years, they testified, American legal traditions have been degraded in areas ranging from domestic spying to government secrecy. The damage that has been done by President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and others is so grave that just assessing it will be an enormous task. Repairing it will be even more enormous.

This was not a new complaint. Civil liberties advocates have been sounding the alarm for years. The difference now is that a Democrat is about to assume the presidency, and one of the most ardent defenders of civil liberties in his party — Senator Russ Feingold of Wisconsin — is dedicated to putting the restoration of the rule of law on the agenda of the incoming government, with the support of the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups.

Mr. Feingold, who is chairman the Senate Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on the Constitution, already has left his imprint on campaign finance, with the McCain-Feingold law, and has been a leading critic of pork-barrel spending and corporate welfare.

Now he has a new cause. Before the election, Mr. Feingold argued that whoever won should make a priority of rolling back Bush administration policies that eroded constitutional rights and disrupted the careful system of checks and balances. Now that Mr. Obama — a onetime constitutional law professor who made this issue a cause early in the campaign — has won the election, there is both reason for optimism and increased pressure on the president-elect to keep his promises.

Mr. Feingold has been compiling a list of areas for the next president to focus on, which he intends to present to Mr. Obama. It includes amending the Patriot Act, giving detainees greater legal protections and banning torture, cruelty and degrading treatment. He wants to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to restore limits on domestic spying. And he wants to roll back the Bush administration's dedication to classifying government documents.

Many reforms could be implemented directly by the next president. Mr. Obama could renounce Mr. Bush's extreme views of executive power, including the notion that in many areas, the president can act as he wants without restraint by Congress or the judiciary. Mr. Obama also could declare his intention not to use presidential signing statements as Mr. Bush did in record numbers to reject parts of bills signed into law.

Congress also has work to do. Many of the excesses of the last eight years have been the result of Mr. Feingold's colleagues' capitulation as much as presidential overreaching. He expects Congress to do more than just fix laws like the Patriot Act. He wants the Senate to question presidential nominees closely at their confirmation hearings about their commitment to the rule of law. And he hopes Congress will do its duty to impose the rigorous supervision it rarely imposed in the Bush years.

Restoring the rule of law will not be easy, Mr. Feingold concedes. Part of the problem is that it is hard to know how much damage has been done. Many programs, like domestic spying and extraordinary rendition — the secret transfer of detainees to foreign countries where they are harshly interrogated — have operated in the shadows.
..."


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:57 PM

Mr. Feingold? I thought he and John McCain had recently gone into business together selling jewelry--on QVC.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:13 PM

Heck, he ain't even President yet so he ain't got no "Administration" yet.

But I'm hopeful. A new beginning is always a time for hope.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 12:04 PM

High Hopes
By ANDREW KOHUT
Andrew Kohut is the president of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. (NYT)

Barack Obama won only 53 percent of the vote on Election Day, but he is getting a landslide greeting from the American public. Indeed, recent polls by Gallup and the Pew Research Center find the public exuberant about Mr. Obama and optimistic that he will solve the nation's problems.

A Pew post-election poll taken last weekend finds the voters giving Mr. Obama better grades for his conduct during the campaign than any presidential candidate since 1988. Seventy-five percent of the sample gave Mr. Obama a grade of A or B grade for his performance, while 24 percent gave him a C, D or F.


Source: Pew Research Center
The Gallup Poll also showed Mr. Obama getting a higher post-election favorable rating (68 percent) than either George W. Bush in 2000 (56 percent) or Bill Clinton in 1992 (60 percent).

Looking ahead, Pew found 67 percent of its national sample of voters saying they thought that Mr. Obama would have a successful first term, as many as 39 percent of those voters supported John McCain. The Gallup Poll asked a broader question about the state of the country four years from now, but found a similar result: 65 percent said the country will be better off. In comparison, only 50 percent thought the country would be better off following George W. Bush's victory in 2000, and about the same number (51 percent) thought the country would be better off following Bill Clinton's success in 1992.

When Gallup asked about specific problems confronting the new administration, it found majorities saying they expected the new administration to succeed in dealing with 13 of 16 problem areas they tested. Notably large numbers expected that Mr. Obama will increase respect for the United States abroad; improve education, the environment and conditions for minorities and the poor; create a strong economic recovery; and succeed in getting troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan in a way that is "not harmful" to the United States.

The polls also showed the public anticipating a better political environment as well. The Pew survey showed somewhat more voters thinking relations between Republicans and Democrats in Washington would improve under Mr. Obama compared with a survey following the 2006 mid-term election (37 percent versus 29 percent). And Gallup found as many as 80 percent of its respondents thinking that Mr. Obama will make a sincere effort to work with Republicans to find solutions.


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Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:43 AM

""BB
What you just heard was the world breathing a huge sigh of relief, they are dancing in the streets of Everywhere.""

AMEN TO THAT!!


I know it's not what you asked Amos, and I freely apologise for the drift, but where better to express an outsiders viewpoint?

Barack Obama is the first politician I have seen in decades, in whom I would put my trust. Not just the first US politico, THE FIRST!


My impression of the man is that his thinking revolves around putting the best interests of the American people (ALL of them) ahead of any political agenda or corporate loyalty.

IMHO the United States is fortunate indeed, and I just wish WE had one like him.

The only thing that could detract from his achieving success, would be the obstructive, blinkered and biased attitude so ably displayed by brainwashed republican fanatics who want the WHOLE cake for themselves. I won't give names, as we, and they, know who they are.

As I have said elsewhere, America was built on the pioneers' good neighbour philosophy, which drove the growth of the so called "Wild West". It makes me sad to think that the Republican Movement has forgotten this, and established a "ME FIRST, LAST, AND ALL THE TIME" philosophy in its place.

GO OBAMA!! And make AMERICA what it once was......GREAT.

Don T.


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