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the Rangers 'Famine Song'

GUEST,Aln Bill 29 Sep 08 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,Jack Union 29 Sep 08 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,Aln Bill 29 Sep 08 - 08:55 AM
Keith A of Hertford 29 Sep 08 - 07:51 AM
GUEST,Jack Union 29 Sep 08 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 28 Sep 08 - 09:32 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM
GUEST,Tam 28 Sep 08 - 06:19 AM
GUEST,canadiangael 27 Sep 08 - 10:45 PM
GUEST,canadiangael 27 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,Jack Union 27 Sep 08 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 27 Sep 08 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,a bemused Celtic fan 26 Sep 08 - 07:21 PM
John MacKenzie 26 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,Aln Bill 26 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Tam 26 Sep 08 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,Jack Union 26 Sep 08 - 11:02 AM
Manitas_at_home 26 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,canadiangael 26 Sep 08 - 10:51 AM
John MacKenzie 26 Sep 08 - 10:49 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 26 Sep 08 - 06:15 AM
ard mhacha 26 Sep 08 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 25 Sep 08 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,steve for francis 25 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,canadiangael 25 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM
GUEST,Nitshill Bear 25 Sep 08 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 24 Sep 08 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,backtothemusic 24 Sep 08 - 03:29 PM
ard mhacha 24 Sep 08 - 02:31 PM
GUEST,Aln Bill 24 Sep 08 - 02:05 PM
ard mhacha 24 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM
ard mhacha 24 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM
John MacKenzie 24 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM
Big Mick 24 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM
GUEST,Nitshill Bear 24 Sep 08 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,Jorrox 24 Sep 08 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,canadiangael 23 Sep 08 - 06:43 PM
GUEST 23 Sep 08 - 06:19 PM
Ythanside 23 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM
GUEST,Jack Union 23 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM
John MacKenzie 23 Sep 08 - 06:50 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 23 Sep 08 - 06:50 AM
GUEST,Jorrox 23 Sep 08 - 05:29 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 22 Sep 08 - 07:07 PM
Brakn 22 Sep 08 - 06:36 PM
Brakn 22 Sep 08 - 06:33 PM
Brakn 22 Sep 08 - 06:26 PM
John MacKenzie 22 Sep 08 - 06:19 PM
GUEST 22 Sep 08 - 06:05 PM
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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:16 PM

Joe Offer,

I'd tend to agree with Guest Jack Union on those grounds --- the amount of lies and untruths which have been posted and systematically exposed speaks volumes for the lack of calibre and class of those who are anti-Rangers.

This thread has probably run its course, and I think it's clear that the point has been successfully carried that the four-line chant isn't any more offensive than any other football song.
The four verse "full version" is full of allusions, all of which can be verified as true by a simple Google check.

And as Jack Union mentions --- NO apologies or condemnations of those who sing songs supporting IRA child murderers.

You couldn't get a clearer line drawn between the two sides.

I'm willing to defend the Rangers fans' viewpoint for so long as it takes, but it IS getting tedious fielding and exposing the lies and general bs being trundled out by the other side in this.
    Yeah, I think that's enough. People are just posting crap here now. Thread closed. Future discussion on this topic will be deleted.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jack Union
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:59 PM

Joe Offer

Personally, I would close the thread. The subject has been done to death now, and I am getting bored by the half-truths and downright lies by certain contributors.

Nothing has changed my mind though. The song was/is a wind-up. No one who objected to the Famine Song has come on and condemned the songs of death threats and terrorism sung by the people who are allegedly offended by the song, and that for me sums it all up.

Clearly, we are never going to get any knd of consensus on the subject, but it was always going to become a bit of a battleground.

Thanks for carrying the thread to allow the debate, but whether you close it or not, I've had my say and am finished contributing to this thread.
cheers J.U.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 08:55 AM

I've always admitted that a "whole song" existed, but was unsure as to how long it had existed for -- I believed it to be a "recent fabrication" (and was unsure as to who had created this dirge), and I am the only person on this thread who has admitted that I was wrong in any respect, by taking evidebnce at face value that the "whole song" has been about for the period of four months.


I repeat again: how are four lines sung by the ancestors of Famine sufferers themselves, in any way worse than Celtic fans singing about murderous terrorists, singing about ethnic cleansing, and hoping for a man to be shot in his sleep ?

Celtic fans have previous for the worst racist incident in Scottish football, have attacked players (including their own current manager when he played for Aberdeen), referees and managers, have smashed the windows of match officials' homes after they lost a game, have set private detectives upon match officials in a vain hope of finding some vast "conspiracy" against them, etc, etc.

Celtic fans remain the ones with the most banning orders for their fans in Britain. They view themselves as "Bhoys" but the figures prove them to be worse than the fans of any other British club.

Three and a half years ago a player was hit and his head bloodied by a lighter thrown from the season ticket holders' area of Celtic Park. Although CCTV coverage is legally required for all such stadiums, no arrest or charge has ever been made. Nobody who saw the incident had the decency to name names.

Since then there have been a plethora of incidents, including Celtic fans running onto pitches wearing t-shirts to get OTHER clubs in trouble, and mobile phones being thrown at players.

During this time, they continue to sing their entire catalogue, which in general is the usual fans' stuff that they all sing, but which also contains deeply offensive lyrics including "F*ck the Queen" (which is sectarian, since the Queen is the head of a church), "Soon there'll be no Protestanbts at all" (which is by nature sectarian), and "I hope you die in your sleep, Nacho Novo, with a bullet from the IRA".

But of course, asking people why they don't "go home" seems to be FAR worse than that.

And as for the suggestion that I can get things censored .... more fantasy I'm afraid.
But then again, the objective reader must be coming to expect that kind of thing from some Celtic fans on here by now.

It's quite sad, because the subject is important: just like with a previous song, if Rangers fans were to be banned from singing this chant, would they then be banned from singing any lyrics to "Sloop John B" at all ??


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:51 AM

Any censorship is done by the forum moderators.
The likes of you, me and Aln have no say in it.
    And I've had to do quite a bit of it in this thread. For example, some posters feel they are exempt from the requirement to use one consistent name. Most of their posts have been deleted, no matter what the content of their posts. Others were deleted because of overly combative conduct. If this keeps up, I'll just close the damn thread.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jack Union
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:01 AM

Censorsarewee

Whilst it would be a falsehood to try and portray Rangers fans as saints on European trips, for you to imply that the behaviour of Celtic supporters is markedly different is misleading at the very least.

To address the three locations you refer to:-

I wasn't in Pamplona, but have first hand accounts from people I know who were there and it seems the trouble was mostly perpetrated by over-zealous riot police, during the match itself. Rangers complained to UEFA about the policing of the match.

In Barcelona, the number of Rangers fans arrested was precisly - none! Of course there was the usual drunken lairy behaviour, and without condoning such behaviour, it is no different certainly to the antics of the beloved Tartan Army, and presumably those jolly craicsters who sanctimoniously preach about how well their own fans allegedly behave. Contrast this with Spanish media reports of 60 - yes sixty Celtic fans arrested in Barcelona last season including the individual who approached some people drinking outside a bar and smashed a bottle over an innocent blokes head. I bet that the unfortunate victim just laughed and laughed at such amusing banter from the Celtic fans. I didn't see any reports of such trouble in Scottish papers and can only wonder why there was no moral outrage from the impartial press.

I was in Manchester with approx 200,000 other Gers fans and had an excellent time in a city which was completely unprepared for such a tidal wave of people. 42 Rangers fans were arrested, I saw none of the trouble personally but having seen a lot of the video evidence of trouble on youtube I unreservedly condemn the vandalism and violent behaviour. There is no excuse for the rampage by about 250 people regardless of the provocation of Greater Manchester's finest, who come out of the whole sorry affair with very little credit either. However the miniscule percentage of people who cause trouble is going to exist in any group that size.

Yes, Rangers fans have caused trouble at home and abroad. But don't be so blinkered as to think that Celtic fans don't. As mentioned above Barcelona wasn't exactly a high point for them. Anyone else remember a battle with the riot police in Vigo? Or a riot in the Bigg Market in Newcastle? What about the pitch invasion and subsequent battle in Middlesbrough at a testimonial? Birmingham City anyone? Hamburg fans stabbed at Celtic Park? Rapid Vienna? Truth is chum, there are as many violent tubes follow Celtic as there is at Rangers but they seem to be protected by that vile sub-species known as the "Sports-Reporter." Take off your green-tinted specs.

Back to the song though. I see Celtic Chairman Dr John Reid has, according to todays newspapers, deemed the the Famine Song to be "Racist and deeply offensive" - The Scottish Sun 29/9/08 page 13. Obviously that is Dr Reid's personal opinion, to which he is perfectly entitled. Remarkably though, Dr Reid has remained completely opinionless about the jovial Celtic supporters' renditions of numerous terrorist related and death threat laden songs at Motherwell last weekend. Funny that, because no one who watched the game on TV or listened on the radio could have missed it, far less anyone who attended the match.

To all Celtic fans out there I ask, if you truly think that we are so evil and sectarian, then find yourseves a full length mirror and have a damn good look at yourselves too. If you can, in all honesty, say you have never sung any songs that anyone could find offensive then, I doff my cap to you. If we are evil and sectarian then we have only one equal in football! The day Celtic fans can take the moral high ground over anyone, I will chuck it altogether.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:32 AM

Amazing !!
Because there's no sensible response to my previous questions on musical censorship, we now get scattergun posts about the KKK, Freemasonry and British monarchs' numbering.

The KKK was formed by six AMERICAN Confederate veterans in 1865, commbining the Greek word for circle (kyklos) with the GAELIC word clan.
Are you reading that canadian"gael" ??

As for the KKK being founded by "secret Scottish group" (or indeed Scottish Presbyterians), they were founded by:
Major James R. Crowe of the fourth Alabama Volunteers, Richard R. Reed , Calvin E. Jones, John C. Lester and Frank O. McCord, editor of the Pulaski Citizen who had served in the Tennessee Infantry, and Captain John B. Kennedy.

None were Scottish. Yet another piece of made-up "misinformation".

The only tenuous connection is that most of the KKK founders were Freemasons (amongst other things) and operated "the Scottish Rite".

However, to suggest that this puts the blame for the genesis of the KKK onto the shoulders of Scotland is as absurd as claiming that the sins of any particular Roman Catholic should be blamed upon Rome.

See the distinction? Not Scottish. Not Roman.


It's clearly a sign of defeat from those who thought they could censor a few fans singing a sarcastic chant with the usual lies.

I DO hope that any of you objective readers looking in continue to notice the ludicrous attempts to which some people will go to, to try and retain their own rights to sing songs celebrating the deaths of Allied soldiers and civilians, but display massive mock outrage at other people whose own ancestors suffered in the Famine, wryly suggesting that they could always "go home" if they don't like it where they currently are ...


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM

Canadian.. I only read the undeleted bit of your last post.
Are you suggesting that many or most Rangers fans are Masons?
You have really lost it mate.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM

Canadiangump, you really hate those Presbyterians don't you!

I do not believe that the founders of the KKK had Rangers shirts under their robes, or that there is any link at all to the auld country from modern members.

Unless you have any evidence I think you should withdraw that slur, and then sit down and examine your motivation.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Tam
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 06:19 AM

William III & II, Edward VII & I, Elizabeth II & I, English titles first and CORRECT British titles second.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,canadiangael
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:45 PM

Free Masonry,
how embarringing to civilization. Please read the following.

Sacred Texts Freemasonry Index Previous Next

Buy this Book at Amazon.com


Duncan's Masoic Ritual and Monitor, by Malcom C. Duncan, [1866], at sacred-texts.com

p. 6p. 7
DUNCAN'S
RITUAL AND MONITOR
OF
FREEMASONRY.

ENTERED APPRENTICE, OR FIRST DEGREE
Seven Freemasons, viz., six Entered Apprentices and one Master Mason, acting under a charter or dispensation from some Grand Lodge, is the requisite number to constitute a Lodge of Masons, and to initiate a candidate to the First Degree of Masonry.
They assemble in a room well guarded from all cowans and eaves-droppers, in the second or third story (as the case may be) of some building suitably prepared and furnished for Lodge purposes, which is, by Masons, termed "the Ground Floor of King Solomon's Temple."
    Lengthy non-music copy-paste deleted. Our limit is one screen on my 32-inch monitor, and this was more like SIX screens. Click here for the rest.
    -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


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Subject: KKK founded by Scottish Presbyterians
From: GUEST,canadiangael
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM

The KKK was founded by Scottish Presbyterians
KKK had been founded by secret Scottish group, Dixon had them carrying the Fiery Cross around.

            The novel was the basis for D.W. Griffith's infamous film epic "The Birth of a Nation" (1915), which depicted Klan horsemen wielding flaming crosses—a more photogenic interpretation.

            The original KKK (circa 1865-1870) never burned crosses. But "The Birth of a Nation" inspired a former Georgia preacher to start up a new KKK, which he inaugurated by burning a small, fixed wooden cross on a mountaintop.
Many different groups had emigrated to America over the years. One group - the Blacks - had been brought there against their will and after the success of the northern states during the Civil War and the freeing of the Blacks from slavery in 1865, a sinister group was established which was designed to spread fear throughout the Black population that still lived in the southern states. This was the KKK. Only WASP's could belong to it — White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. It is a common myth that the KKK targeted only the Blacks - also hated were the Jews, Catholics, liberals etc but most hatred was directed against the poor black families in the south who were very vulnerable to attack.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jack Union
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:45 AM

Re:Guest canadiangael

With regard to your last submit. I have never read such a barrel full of drivel in all my life. Out of all that about 5% of the questions were relevent i.e flying union Flag and Red Hand etc. I mean, "World Council of Churches???" The whole post is designed to look serious but is predominantly lies. Ranger players won medals for valour during the war. How did they manage that hiding in Stirling Castle? What do the Profumo Scandal and steven Ward have to do with anything? Who has forgotten the Highlang Clearences and Wallace? Remind me what the dates were for this game against Shamrock Rovers please. Gers have only ever played Dundalk, Bohemians twice and Shelbourne from Ireland in Euro competition. Gers fans align themselves with Neo-Nazi groups do they? Examples please. Actually truthful examples please. What ties do Rangers have with KKK?

In your first submit you implied that you were a God-fearing bible reader. Next time you are looking for a passage to refer to may I suggest Exodus Ch20 V16 :- Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

If you do believe in the bible then don't gamble an eternity in the fiery pits of Hell trying to score points with unmitigated lies.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 05:38 AM

Celtic fans DO sing about "and soon there'll be no Protestants at all", to the tune of "Roamin' in the Gloamin'", or more often than not to the Tune of "The One Road".

It is an old trick for fans to claim that it is only "away" fans who sing abusive lyrics, but that doesn't wash in reality.
After all, the same "defence" could be applied to away Rangers fans ...
Couldn't it ?


As for claiming that "ooh ah up the ra" is "ooh ah Samaras" ... what a load of codswallop.
Recently, the chairwoman of the Celtic Trust told Five Live's Nicky Campbell that it was acceptable for Celtic fans to sing pro-IRA songs.
There's no point trying to fudge it -- perhaps YOU actually sing "ooh ah Samaras" (in which case I applaud you), but "ooh ah up the Ra" is well-documented.


btw, just to show you how two sets of fans in the one stadium are treated differently, Celtic fans used to chant to Rangers' Chris Burke ( a Catholic player) "Who's the Fenian in the blue?"
But if a Rangers fan was to repeat that same chant, he would be arrested.

Rangers fans aren't allowed to even say the word "Fenian", and are not allowed to sing anything to the tune of "Marching through Georgia".

Even-handed ? Doesn't look like it, eh ?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,a bemused Celtic fan
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 07:21 PM

Celtic fans do NOT sing about `soon there will be no protestants at all at Celtic Park,maybe the moronic elements who follow to away games do but you wont hear it at Celtic Park,in fact you will hear sweet eff all as its pretty quiet ,as for this chant highlighted recently

`ooh ah up the `ra is in fact ooh ah Samaras of course we get the morons who sing the first version but certainly not most of us


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM

James VI & I


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM

If she's English then she's British.

The Scottish flag is represented in the Union Flag (see all that blue in there? That's ALL Scottish), so ... singing God save The Queen (whilst not my own personal choice due to my own politics) and waving a Union Flag is perfectly OK for any British person to do.
If they want.

Any objective viewers looking in on this ??
I realise that you must be a bit disgusted with some of the nonsense on here, but by now it must be quite clear to you that the reasoned arguments and factual basis is all coming from one side only.

Rangers fans have been branded as "bigots" and "sectarian" for singing a four line chant (and for having a four verse song foisted on them by two individuals).

Are the four lines actually bigoted ?
"The Famine's over, Why Don't You Go Home?"
Sung by one set of football fans at another set, both sets having ancestors who suffered in the Famine.

It is clearly directed at "plastic Paddies" -- defined as people who pine for Ireland, but have either never set foot on its shores, or who would run a mile if offered the opportunity to live there.

It's a bit of a stretch calling it bigoted.

Compare and contrast that with some of the other vile filth directed from Rangers' opponents: ethnic cleansing ditties, songs hoping for a Rangers player to be shot, and the oddly "not bigoted" "Go Home Ya Huns", etc.

It would appear that whilst every other football club in the world is allowed to have some lattitude in the humour used, Rangers FC are to be a special case where the fans cannot even make a mildly sarcastic suggestion.

As an objective observer, don't you find it strange how Rangers fans are treated in such a strict manner, but that other club are not ??

There have been plenty of genuine examples of previous form that the other club's fans have demonstrated, but it would appear that even bringing some of them to light again is in itself "bigoted".

Football (and most other sporting) chants will occasionally be marred by vile lyrics, and it is the duty of the requisite authorities to clamp down on them.

Just a shame that this is ALL so one-sided.


btw, yet another lie up there about Rangers supposedly having their players sited at Stirling Castle during the Second World War.
I can give you a comprehensive listing of the players and where they were, including three of them in the Royal Navy.
How many times have certain posters got to be caught out lying !!!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Tam
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 11:09 AM

The queen has an English title so what's British about her?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jack Union
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 11:02 AM

Ard mhacha

"goodbye to the bigots on this thread"

You don't say who the bigots are, and perhaps i'm being a bit presumptious here, but really, that was a cheap shot! It emphasises what Aln bill has been saying in his inimitable way, that you don't want to debate the sectarian excesses of the Celtic fans and that for him or whoever to mention it means they must be bigots. Is that what you mean?

The only truly naked sectarian remark I have seen in this whole thread was written by Guest Hail-Hail near the top who suggested it was time to get out as the "place is full of Hamilton Accies." In case you are wondering, a Hamilton Accie is rhyming slang for "Paki", an offensive and sectarian term for Asians who originate from Pakistan or even if they don't have Pakistani origins, who look like they do, many of whom may have come to this country for sanctuary and succour or even to escape famine. Does this character have no sense of irony?

The point is Ard, that to hold a Unionist political point of view and to defend that view is not sectarian or bigoted. I accept that people will choose to be offended by certain aspects of the verses of the Famine Song - indeed I find the lyrics of many songs sung at Celtic Park offensive, but much of it does refer to actual events. Perhaps the truth is that some people find the lyrics discomforting rather than offensive. But the whole point that is being made is the disparity of media coverage of this song and the songs of hate the Celtic fans sing is becoming a joke now. To infer that Unionist=bigot just because it isn't your politics is lazy debate. No one who has come to this thread to object to the Famine song has condemned any of the sectarian songs sung by Celtic fans. I ask you, would you find it acceptable for anyone to infer that since you haven't condemned these songs as well as the Famine Song, then you must then support the songs of murder and genocide? Is that reasonable or not?

In your previous submits you referred to Catholic players being booed at Windsor Park and Anton Rogan's brother's remarks about him having abuse directed at him. Well Ard, this all happens on the other side too you know. It isn't exclusively reserved for Catholics playing for Norn Iron.

For your info, Scotland played Denmark a few years ago (can't remember when) and Danish, Rangers player Brian Laudrup was subjected to incessant booing and insults of "Orange B######" etc. It wasn't because he had suddenly adorned a sash or took up the flute, it was because he played for Rangers. Neil McCann (A Roman Catholic) suffered similar abuse in Dublin playing for Scotland. Regarding Rogan, I don't suppose his brother made comments about the abuse he received from Celtic fans, and how the believed that he "shamed the hoops," as they generally didn't rate him as a player, did he?

I will happily debate this issue, but the "bigot" crap can only be reserved for Guest Hail-Hail on this particular thread.

One last point Re: Lennon. The Scottish media, when reporting this incident, generally were of the opinion that Lennon should have been able to go for a drink after an Old Firm game without finding himself in trouble and getting into a fight. I agree entirely with those sentiments. However, when Rangers captain Barry Ferguson went out for a drink after an Old Firm game, where Rangers were heavily beaten, and became involved in the infamous Battle of Bothwell Bridge Hotel with Celtic fans, the general media reaction was "What was Ferguson thinking about going out after an Old Firm game?" Actually I agree entirely with that opinion too. Does anyone else see the subtle differences in how two similar incidents were reported? Or is it just me?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM

Why do people keep insisting that the Queen is German and the DoE Greek? Don't you think they've become naturalised by now? If not then heaven help anyone else hoping to become British!


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Subject: Things for Rangers Supporters to think about
From: GUEST,canadiangael
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 10:51 AM

During the war there was no conscription in the north part of the Island of Ireland. Where were all the planters then?
During the war rangers players were stationed in the home guard at Stirling Castle That's why they win the league during that period.
Confused rangers supporters sing "God save the Queen" the same confused Rangers supporters sing "Flower of Scotland"
Rangers supporters support a foreign monarch. Their Queen is German and her husband the Duke is Greek. Where was the Duke during the Profumo Scandal.Why was Doctor Steven Ward murdered by MI5?
If Rangers supporters believe in the concept of royalty, why do they choose to forget what happened to the the real Queen of Scotland?
Why do Rangers supporters choose to forget about the Highland clearances.
Why do Rangers supporters choose to forget about William wallace.
Why do Rangers supporters fly the Union Jack. This is not the flag of Scotland.
Why do Rangers supporters fly the "Red Hand of Ulster Flag"
Why did Rangers Football Club refuse to fly the Irish flag at Ibrox when Shamrock Rovers visited Ibrox for a european game. Rangers Football Club gave each Shamrock Rovers player a bottle of whisky to appease them. It is protocal to fly the flage of the country of the visiting team
Why do Rangers supporters continually sing songs of hate.
Why do Rangers supporters not believe in "The World Council of Churches"
Why do Rangers supporters align themselves with neo natzi groups?
I think it's time Rangers supporters looked inside and thought about these things. It's time Rangers supporters woke up and smelled the coffee and joined the rest of the democratic world. They should move forward in time and get in step with the real world. if only you knew what the free world think about you. It's time for Ranger supporters to move on and shake of all ties with organizations like the Orange Order and the Ku Klux Klan. There are many decent Rangers Supporters who are truly Scottish and are proud of their celtic roots and heritage and don't want to be anglisized.Let's attempt to move forward as a celtic nation, remember our celtic heritage and support nationalism for our celtic future.Rangers supporters should show the world that they are truly great supporters, proud to be celtic and free and extend a hand of friendship to all you celt brothers and sisters. You could say " A Nation Once Again"


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 10:49 AM

I think this thread has run it's course. It is no longer about the song mentioned it the title, it is about the age old stupidity that is sectarianism.

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 06:15 AM

ard mucky, re the Lennon arrest -- the man was charged with serious assault, even although Lennon was treated for minor injuries.

Shame that the same publicity hasn't been extended to the 22-year old Celtic fan who was arrested this week for his part in the four-man assault in broad daylight in Clydebank, as 4 Celtic-topped fans attacked a single Rangers fan.

Let's treat them equally, eh? Otherwise it's bigotry ...


Guest toseeourselvesasotherseeus --- this isn't a court -- I'm njot ontrial here, the "song" is.

I acknowledged that the song was real, although I was wrong about how long it had been about (the four line chant has been sung for a year now, and the four verse song dates back to four months ago).

I don't think ANYBODY could say it wasn't a dirge -- musically it's plain awful. Lyirically, it's a mess. Then again it wouldn't be alone in that respect ...


Looking at the song in general, there's an interesting quote I could give you:
"Oddly enough, it's your parody verse that I'd call folk. I don't have a single definition: it depends on what aspect I'm considering. The Digital Tradition defines folk music as anything anyone likes enough to send in. More generally, I guess I consider folk music as music sung or played socially for an audience that shares the culture that produced the tune or song...."

That's from a completely different thread, although it refers to an Irish song, but applies to some extent to this thread.


And if you want to be offended by lyrics, tell us EXACTLY what offends you. Don't just blurt out a load of stuff in one line.

Is it the accusations of covering up child abuse and rape?
That actually happened.

Denigrating the memory of Scotland's greates ever manager?
The Captain of Celtic football club (Billy McNeil) admitted in a court of law that Jock Stein knew about the child abuse -- that's why he got rid of Torbett agfter all. The club rewarded Stein with moving him on, offering him a job as their Pools agent, and then bringing Torbett back intot he Celtic fold (even now, a former Celtic director is Torbett's financial partner).

Calling people traitors?
Not unique to Rangers fasn re McGeady -- you should ask almost any other Scottish fan what tehy think about him.


If you're going to respond to me, try to think of some sort of line of attack.


btw, there's load more I can post about Celtic fans if you really want ... from them chanting support for the IRA during WW2 to the extent that Parkhead actually was shut down for a time, or maybe we could ask about them attacking Scottish referees (on the pitch and at their homes) ?

There's loads more where that came from.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 04:18 AM

For the benefit of Aln-Bill the invisible man has been located to a Glasgow court.       A man has appeared in court accused of attacking the Celtic coach Neil Lennon in Glasgow's west end.

David Whitelaw, 43, appeared at Glasgow Sheriff Court charged with assault to severe injury. He made no plea or declaration and was kept in custody.

Lennon, 37, was treated for minor injuries following an incident in Glasgow's Ashton Lane on 1 September.

The incident happened hours after Lennon was in the Celtic dugout for the club's 4-2 home defeat to Rangers.

Goodbye to the bigots on this Thread.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:16 PM

Guest whenisasongnotasong, "All lyrics for all songs have to be composed by someone, at sometime and then sung by someone for it to become a song. You now admit it is song but it's 'fabricated'. All songs are 'made up'-that's hw they come into existence! If it has lyrics, verses and is sung it is a song"

Yes, that's what I've been saying !!!
Nobody is arguing that a song now exists, but I tell you what: not one Rangers fan (or even the few Celtic fans I know) had ever heard of any "whole song" before this week.
Even now, checking this out, the evidence is so sparse as to be quite remarkable.

But I DO accept the evidence you have posted: it certainly would appear that (Australian) posters had a "whole song" version going four months ago.
Fair enough -- I am willing to accept the truth.
It would be nice to read somebody else on this thread also doing so.

However, the simple fact remains that ... the "whole song" has NOT been sung by Rangers fans at a match.
Four lines: "The Famine's over, Why Don't you go home?"

As you say, the song IS a dirge (as most of these so-called Oirish-related can be), but are the lyrics offensive ?

"From Ireland they came
Brought us nothing but trouble and shame" -- well if that applies equally to Rangers and Celtic fasn then it's fair enough.
If it is just being applied to IRA sympathisers, then it's equally fair enough.

"Now Athenry Mike was a thief" -- well, the Fields of Athenry confirms that with "For you stole Trevelyn's corn".

"And Large John he was fully briefed" -- referring to Jock Stein's knowledge of the Celtic Boys' Club child abuse, which was verified by no less than the captain of Celtic in a court of law.

"And that wee traitor from Castlemilk
Turned his back on his own" -- referring to Celtic's McGeady who chose to play for Eire rather than Scotland, making him unpopular with almost all Scottish footie fans.

"They've all their Papists in Rome
They have U2 and Bono" -- for the life of me I can't see how this could be construed as offensive, since it is factual.

"Now they raped and fondled their kids
That's what those perverts from the darkside did
And they swept it under the carpet" -- referring again to Scottish sport's worst child abuse scandal, carried out by Cairney & Torbett, who left Celtic, the latter did two years in jail for his crimes, and then linked back up with the club through his Trophy Centre.


So -- a "whole song" (that nobody had ever heard of until now, which you have to admit IS pretty strange ), BUT only four lines sung by Rangers fans at games.

Now, you could try and suggest that the four line chant is totally representative of the "whole song", but I put it to you that's a dangerous road to go down.


As for a huge gust of fresh air ... let's ask once more, what's worse?
People whose ancestors also suffered during the Great Famine singing a sarcastic chant, or
fans singing in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation that have killed children, fans who threw bananas onto the pitch at a black Rangers player and dressed up in monkey costumes to mock him, fans who pray for a Catholic Rangers player to die in his sleep with a bullet from the IRA, fans who mocked the Rangers American captain with aeroplane gestures after the 9/11 tragedy, fans who mocked the same disaster a year later by chanting all through the minute's silence, etc, etc.


You tell me : what is worse.

And will you condemn Denis Leary for his barbed comments about how come the Irish famine happened to an island and how come they couldn't fish ??

Or ... are you really saying that there's no place for humour in music?
Because a few other posters on here would take serious issue with that.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,steve for francis
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,canadiangael
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM

Re: Did you notice the date of my letter regarding planters in Ireland. I did not mention in my dated letter that I did see the year 1990 displayed on many of the banners that were carried by people who were hungover or under the influence of alchohol or drugs?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Nitshill Bear
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:18 AM

"Big Mick" just about stops short of "tiocfaidh ar la". I have no political interest in Northern Ireland. If it were to ever become part of the Republic of Ireland as a result of due democratic process then fine. Just as long as terrorism doesn't play a part, although this is virtually impossible as convicted murderers are apparently fit to hold office in some parts.

"Sleep well". Oh, you big Internet toughie with yer brooding menace. Am a baw-hair away from pishing myself.

With laughter.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 06:19 PM

backtothemusic, in what way am I "strangely quiet now about the four verses, their longevity and origin" ??

The four version "full song" is a recent fabrication.
There were only four LINES, for a year now.

It is only NOW that somebody has penned a "full version".
(Interesting to read another thread on here about "Traditional singers altering songs", and how lyrics are often added in large amounts to pad out tunes.)

This is plainly what has happened here.
The chant became infamous and one or two people have just created a complete "whole" song.

Origin of the song ? "From a more thorough trawl of youtube it looks like the shameful song's authors look like their Australian Rangers fans."
It's pretty likely that the fabricated "whole song" was composed by Rangers fans.
However, there is NO evidence at ALL to support ANYTHING about a "whole song" existing more than even a month ago.
Nothing.
Not a thing at all.

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that a "whole song" like this would have been doing the rounds for a long time and NOT be recorded for posterity on an older lyrics site somewhere, or indeed recorded on YouTube on an older video.
As every other football-related fans' song is.

You talk of obfuscation, but unfortunately it is yourself who would appear guilty of that.
Where's your evidence ??

And as for calling it a "shameful song", well the four line chant isn't shameful.
It has as much humour as Alan Partridge's line:
"At the end of the day, they will pay the price for being a fussy eater. If they could afford to emigrate, they could afford to eat at a modest restaurant."

Or Denis Leary's suggestions (45 seconds in) about how the Famine could have been averted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiPOhfJzU2E

Or even the former Celtic player Charlie Nicholas himself who agreed with a fellow matchj commentator's groan about Celtic fans singing The Fields of Athenry with the comment: "Aye, and they're all eating chips singing this."

From a satirical comedian, an Irish-American Catholic comedian, and an ex-Celtic player.
Let the condemnation begin ...

Four lines seem to have hurt so much, even although they were sung by people whose ancestors also suffered.

Isn't it strange how Rangers fans must be censored for humour, and yet Celtic fans can't even be chastised for anything ?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,backtothemusic
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:29 PM

Aln Bill

You are strangely quiet now about the four verses, their longevity and origin.

From a more thorough trawl of youtube it looks like the shameful song's authors look like their Australian Rangers fans. Would be a bit ironic wouldn't it?

Time for some is agreat healer but for those who try to obsficate the reality of a situation it can be a tad uncomfortable.

Cant you keep it up?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 02:31 PM

Fact Aln-Bill, A man will appear in court to-morrow.
Long-winded ain`t my style.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 02:05 PM

Think that you'll find that all the press are being careful to state "alleged assault", since:
Lennon isn't pressing charges
Nobody saw or heard anything
The CCTV "evidence" shows two men (one of whom looks suspiciously like Lennon himself!!) sauntering out of Ashton Lane.

WE shall see what comes of this, if anything.

Let us hope that all the police time put into this (not pressed) "assault" shows better dividends than the incident over 3 and a half years ago when a lighter was thrown from the Celtic season ticket holders' seats at Parkhead and bloodied a player's head, and was plain and square caught on CCTV.
Not ONE arrest! nor any leads were followed up !


Music that I'm into ? I help with the local annual Alnwick International Music festival, which deals with folk music from all around the world.
Although I like fiddle music (for example, Catriona McDonald from this neck of the woods), and more modern folk from Rachel Unthank and the like, I'm not a major folk groupie.
However, just to prove my genuine roots, any other Glaswegians will be able to confirm (what isn't on the net): many many years ago I used to go to downstairs in "His Nibs" off of Sauchiehall Street, to listen to ... Irish fiddle music !!).
Is that genuine enough info for you ?!


"Church of Scotland schools" were subsumed into the state in ... 1872. Anybody on here who claims to have gone to a "Church of Scotland" / Proddy school (in Britain) in living memory is factually incorrect.
And Scottish non-denominational schools are just that.

Anybody who tries to brand one as "Proddy" is either wrong or lying.


It really is remarkable the amount of factually incorrect/lying posts on here, but I DO hope that you're all keeping track of this trail of falsehoods and inaccuracies.
Isn't it strange ?

And still ... we have to ask, all those awful things that have been quoted re Celtic fans (and there is a LOT more if you want it ...!), how can a four line sarcastic chant be WORSE than them ??!!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM

Guest Aln-Bill hope you can read this, A man has been arrested over an alleged assault on Celtic coach Neil Lennon in the west end of Glasgow earlier this month.

The 46-year-old is expected to appear at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Thursday.

Police said inquiries were continuing to trace another man who is believed to have been involved.

Lennon was knocked unconscious during the attack, which happened hours after Celtic lost their SPL home match against Old Firm rivals Rangers.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM

A man has been arrested in Glasgow for an attack on Neil Lennon the Celtic coach, he is due to appear in a Glasgow court to-morrow. Guest Aln-Bill your invisible man will `appear` in court to-morrow.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM

Some of you may not have noticed the date on the post from Canada gael.

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM

I have stayed out of this one due to it being an issue for those that live there. But the last comment deserves an acknowledgement.

You are right, NB. For many of us it will always be the North OF Ireland. And fairly soon, you will be calling it the same. The North will be reunited with the South, and it will be sooner rather that later. Sleep well.

Mick


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Nitshill Bear
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 11:44 AM

An incoherent, inarticulate, illiterate outpouring of hatred and bile from Canadian Gael there. Well done.

For the uninitiated, the nomenclature "island of Ireland" and "north part of the island of Ireland" is typical of Irish Republicanism. Usually Northern Ireland is referred to simply as "The North" by these people. This is their way of demonstrating their lack of recognition for Northern Ireland. Don't be fooled.

As for Jorrox, I'd love to know why "most people hate blue noses".


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jorrox
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 06:59 AM

AlnBill - Can you maybe give us an idea of what type of folk/roots music that you like?
Y'know, maybe name a few artists?
Just for the hell of it?

(You will see that I said "Proddy School (Yes I Know)". I am well aware of what makes a 'faith' school. But to suggest that my state schooling in the 60s was anything other than proddy is stretching it.

I came to realise why most people hate blue noses - you just can't see it because you are too close to it.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,canadiangael
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:43 PM

ANTI – IRISH PLANTERS LIVING IN IRELAND                09/01/97

A CHAIRDE,
I am writing from North America and I consider myself a loyalist, I'm loyal to my country of Canada, I'm loyal to my wife and children, I'm loyal to my friends and co-habitants of the land I love, I'm loyal to democratic principals, I'm loyal to a civilized accepted way of living that has been adopted by reasonable people since the beginning of time. I live and share the same principal of loyalty to my family, friends, countrymen and women. You could consider my family and choice of friends as loyal human beings who love and respect life and share important values with people of different opinions than we share. As I watch the news reports from the island of Ireland covering the turbulence and troubles in the north part of the island of Ireland, I constantly witness human butchery, disregard for human life, and complete disobedience of the laws of God and Ireland. The people carrying out these acts of violence were born in Ireland, are therefore Irish, and enjoy life in one of the most beautiful countries known to man. As I watch the media coverage of Ireland and witness the dark satanic side of democracy gone wrong, I am deeply saddened when I witness adults living in Ireland constantly disregarding the laws of God and Man, and being constantly unloyal to all reasonable democratic standards. My family and I witnessed thousands of adults dressed in strange clothing, wearing English style business hats, they were cursing, using abusive language and a large portion of those people appeared to be under the influence of alcohol or drugs, especially the ones that were embracing the Royal Ulster Constabulary as they blatantly attacked other Irish people. I witnessed many vicious attacks by the R.U.C. helped by those people dressed in clothes similar to what I have witnessed in Southern Alabama when black people of this continent were treated the same way, and were butchered by a satanic force that claimed to be "Loyalist". After my disturbing experience watching the laws of God and humanity being disregarded by those people wearing strange clothes, who by the way carried the "Holy Bible" during their attacks on innocent bystanders I questioned my beliefs, I consider the brutalities carried out by those loyalist. I prayed to God for help and guidance to allow me to understand the strange behavior that I witnessed by those loyalists who constantly act unloyal to the country that they live in. I discussed the disturbing media coverage with my family, friends, people of different religious persuasion, and three ministers of religion, one Catholic, one Protestant, and the other Muslim. Each of the people I spoke to disclaimed the Irish loyalists claim of being loyal or being a loyalist. If one is loyal within ones country, one would assume a commitment to that country existed, if one was disloyal to the country of ones birth, I would assume an element of disloyalty to ones country existed within that disloyal individual. Therefore if you were born in Ireland and consider yourself to be a loyalist, one would assume that Ireland would be the country of loyalty, failing this, if one was born in Ireland and was unloyal to the country of ones birth, loyalist or loyalism is certainly not the words that comes to my mind. Anti Irish Planter or Traitor would be more politically correct and would certainly be more fitting for one who is unfaithful and disloyal to the country of ones birth. These same loyalist people recently spoke of ethnic cleansing within the north part of the island of Ireland, views that I consider no different than their offspring brothers who formed the " Ku Klux Klan" and were responsible for similar atrocities in the southern states of America. If the principle of ethnic cleansing was accepted by the majority of the people of the island of Ireland, the intended victims for removal from Ireland would certainly not affect Irish loyalists. If would assume that if one were of the opinion that an unthinkable act of ethnic cleansing was acceptable in the north part of the island of Ireland, the starting point for such an act if anywhere would begin with Anti Irish Planters and Traitors. My discussion continued with my family an my friends and I am still of the opinion that I am a loyalist to my country, my family, my friends, and humanity. The people of Ireland who wear strange clothes similar to the "Ku Klux Klan" and the Royal Ulster Constabulary who are responsible for collusion against the Irish people are certainly not loyalists but Anti Irish Planters and Traitors. These individuals must see the writing on the wall and read it, they must understand that there is a place in Ireland for them to live in peace and harmony as Irishmen and Irishwomen, the rest of the world is watching carefully the unacceptable bigotry, and racism that exists in the north part of the island of Ireland. If only you could see yourselves as the rest of the world see you, long live democracy and loyalty to the country of ones birth.

                                                                               FROM A LOYALIST
                                                                               Canadian Gael
                                                                                          TORONTO
                                                                                        CANADA


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:19 PM

AlnBill

You asked some posters on here for evidence about the validity of the four verses of this dire song. Here is only one example of it in all it's glory.

Celtic fans making up the four verses

They really go to some lenghts to make their case don't they!!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Ythanside
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM

I can assure GUEST Aln Bill that I went to a Prestbyterian Church of Scotland school, a 'Proddy' institution, so they DID exist.

Whether or not they still do,I neither know nor care.

IMO any form of religion serves only to divide society into an 'us & them' view of humanity, as a fair sprinkling of the preceding hundred or so posts prove.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jack Union
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM

Good grief! I go away for a couple of days and have missed so much.

"Ahhh thats why BNP members support Rangers"

Brakn - by any debating standards that was pretty poor. None of the incidents alluded to by Aln Bill are fictitious. So, by your way of thinking, because Aln Bill presents a Unionist point of view it therefore follows that we all become labelled as BNP supporters and by definition, racists? Did you honestly mean, BNP supporter supports Rangers, therefore Rangers fans support BNP? Sorry, but you are not on chum. In the early 1980's the National Front tried to peddle their politics outside Ibrox by playing the Loyalist card. Apart from a few impressionable teenagers they made absolutely no headway into the Rangers support, who saw them for what they were and let it be known that they were not welcome.

It was inevitable the way this debate was going to go given the subject matter. If you didn't like the subject you were are liberty to give this thread a bodyswerve.

I think that "Guest" is up to a bit of mischief when giving Graham Spiers such a glowing reference in his unrelenting quest to eliminate bigoted chants from Ibrox. I wonder how his crusade against bigoted chants at Celtic Park is getting on. If anyone can find any reference to it in any of his work please let me know. Oh he might just give it a cursory mention so he can point to some piece he has written to claim he is unbiased, but again, if anyone finds a venomous insulting artical he has written which is directed towards Celtic supporters singing sectarian songs then paste a link for me. In fact cut it out and keep it as an investment as they are rarer than Penny Blacks!

Incidentally Guest, I was at Kilbowie Park in Clydebank at the first Rangers game following the death of Jock Stein. There was a minutes silence before kick-off and I can assure you that an immaculate silence was observed by the entire Rangers support. Stein, McGrain and Dalglish were not disliked by Rangers supporters because they were Protestants who played for Celtic (another myth), they were disliked by Rangers supporters because they played for Celtic. And thats it! No underlying agenda. They played for our biggest rivals. They were never singled out for special treatment. One can only wonder if Maurice Johnstone and Neil McCann, as Roman Catholics who played for Rangers, were subjected to additional booing and jeering by Celtic supporters, and in Johnstones case physical threats, simply because they played for Rangers or because they were seen as traitors in they eyes of a significant proportion of the Celtic support.

Aln Bill - you asked what Ireland would have been like had the Republican collusion with the Nazis dring WW2 been successful.

The Republican movement in Ireland took a view that - my enemy's enemy is my friend. Hitler and the Nazi war machine were happy enough to take advantage of the assistance given by the lighting of bonfires to direct German bombers to their targets and the refuelling and resupplying of U-Boats in Irish harbours. However, the Gaelic blood of most Irish is not, and never was Aryan. Not many Irish people display the blonde-haired blue-eyed looks that Hitler demanded of his pure race.

Similar to the Irish/British relationship, many Ukrainians and Cossacks saw the advancing German army as a force who would liberate them from Stalin's oppression and gave the Axis soldiers traditional gifts of salt and bread, cheered and threw flowers onto the Panzers as they rumbled towards Stalingrad. Little did they know what awaited them. Unfortunately for the Ukrainians their bloodline was more Russian than Germanic. The population was beaten, raped and murdered and hundreds of villages were systematically destroyed to keep the population at heel. Able bodied men were forced to work for the Nazis and of course a great many thousands went to the death camps.

Obviously we can only speculate as to what the fate of the Irish would have been if the Nazi's had won the war, but history tends to suggest that once the Nazis were in a place the local population didn't enjoy the presence of their guests very much. Crucially though, as I suggested earlier the Irish do not have German blood running through their veins and I suspect that may have sealed the fate of the Irish people.

It should also be noted that a significant number of Nazi war criminals were given refuge in Ireland after the war and never faced justice for their crimes against humanity, whilst the Irish citizens who took up arms for the Allies, to fight Facism, were spat on, abused in the street and unable to wear their uniforms when on leave.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:50 AM

Terry I think it is abysmal that you should contribute nothing to this serious thread, and then jump in with your stupid claim for the 100th post. Grow up!

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:50 AM

Ah, Guest Jorrox has posted one of the standard "Now I'm a Rangers fan but even I was repelled by ..." etc, etc, posts.

Just one point that blows any claim to truthfulness out of the water there -- he claims to have gone to a "Proddy school".

There is NO such thing in Scotland, and every Rangers fan knows it.
There are Faith schools (Catholic, even Muslim and Jewish), but there is NO such thing as a Protestant school.
The standard school in Scotland is non-denominational (ie: people of any faith can and do attend).

So ... a completely dishonest post there, created in a quite disgraceful attempt to colour the argument.
I could say that this is typical of the "impostor" strategy, but I don't need to -- you can see it for yourself !!

You can judge for yourselves about which fans are "more bitter and bigoted" --- look through this thread and assess which fans are the more bigoted: the ones who wave a Union Flag and sing about the Queen, or the ones who wave an Irish flag (but won't go home ...) and who sing about the IRA, and are implicated in child abuse, songs promoting ethnic cleansing, the worst cases of racism in Scottish sport, and regular bouts of outrage and lying (as Jorrox proves above).

Facts prove that Celtic fans are the more bigoted.


As for songs: that's what this thread was all about -- the words of a chant that were deemed offensive to some (although sung by the descendants of many who had also suffered).

FACTS prove that the chant existed for over a year -- the "whole song" is a fabrication.
I did wonder if other traditional (folk) songs may have been created/extended in a similar "manufactuired" method.
A genuine enough question, and one worth exploring perhaps.

And can you really not see that if such a slightly sarcastic chant is banned, then it's the start of a slippery slope ??

Take a look at the lyrics of almost any other song on this Forum -- you could find a slew of people who would take offence at almost all of them.

Make no mistake --- keep losing such songs and chants and lyrics and you can kiss goodbye to real folk music.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jorrox
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 05:29 AM

As ever, when the west of Scotland disease hits the headlines, one has to identify ones roots or else be wrongly labeled by the bigots.

I was born in Airdrie to a Rangers family. Proddy school (yes I know). BBs, church - the lot.

So I am NOT coming from 'the other side' when I say that Rangers fans are by far the more repellant of the two. There is good and bad on both sides and extremists on both sides. But the average, in the middle, Rangers fan always seems to be far more bitter and bigoted than his Celtic counterpart.

That's the way I see it.

I can't understand what some of you are doing in the folk world at all. Do you ever listen to the words of songs?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 07:07 PM

Had to laugh at the "Guest" post a few ones above, where we're again fed even MORE lies about those of Irish descent only now having equal rights and a say in Scottish society -- think about it: this refers to Rangers fans of Irish descent too.
Misty-eyed bullsh**.
Unless you're trying to be sectarian about it ...


The "whole song" is a recent fabrication (just like so many of the anti-Rangers points on here): where is the evidence of four-verse songs being sung in Manchester, or anywhere else for that matter a year ago? The match and build-up was well-recorded. Where's the evidence??
The four LINES of the simple chant have been going that long.

Which makes it all the odder that it has taken until now for the apoplectic outrage to take hold.


"One of Scotlands bravest journalists ..." -- give me peace !!
Graham Speirs is NOTORIOUS for his dislike of Rangers.
The man has made it his personal mission to do everything he can to spread all sorts of spurious muck about Rangers FC, most likely because he is an avid supporter of .... can you guess it .... Celtic.

Be in possession of the FULL facts.

The further bigoted religious nonsensical ramblings about Rangers fans not accepting Jock Stein, and bringing in the Catholic Church's child abuses, is mere obfuscation.
Try sticking to the point, or I could post that:

In a football context, Celtic FC and their fans continue to be Scotland's Shame, for the simple factual reasons that they support proscribed terrorists, they covered up a child abuse scandal, they threw bananas onto the ptich at a black player, they spat onto a Catholic Rangers manager after a match in Edinburgh, they spat at their own black players in their own car park, and they can't take a bit of "banter".

Both the "Irish Independent" and Glasgow's pro-Celtic "Daily Record" have been scathing of the campaign against this chant -- they see the simple truth that music and chants that are not discriminatory must be protected, otherwise we are on the slippery slope to biased subjective censorship.


I know that this thread is starting to look a bit rancid, with some pretty dodgy opinions on it (and I apologise to Admin for my fat fingers accidentally posting blank posts every so often !!).

But please keep it going, because musically there's a MAJOR point here IMO.
Just because a small group of people start making up stuff to try to get something banned, doesn't mean that we should take what they say as gospel without knowing the real truth.

Otherwise, what piece of music will be next?
I am sure you can think of a few that would fall foul of some eejit making up their own history & "facts" to get them banned.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Brakn
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 06:36 PM

In fact I sang it once in Stockport (yes that version) and got tremendous abuse. Wouldn't care if I never heard it again!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Brakn
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 06:33 PM

Sorry John........ no offence intended, others were not members then. :-)


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Brakn
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 06:26 PM

I'm sure that's been posted before, many years ago. It was a joke then, Please keep up!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 06:19 PM

Nice to know not everybody takes it seriously.


NOT THE FEILDS ATHENRY
By M.Austen 1993

By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young girl calling
Michael they are singing it again
And it just goes on and on
And I hate that blooming (bloody) song
I'm so fed-up with the fields of Athenry

ch.
Oh no not the fields of Athenry
If I hear it one more time I'm going to cry
They should ban the flaming (bloody) thing
There are far better songs to sing
I'm so fed-up with the fields of Athenry

By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young man calling
Mary why do you think that I'm in here
I hit the singer with my shillelagh
Now I'm bound for old Australie
But no more I'll hear the fields of Athenry

By a lonely harbour wall
I heard a young girl calling
To a prison ship and saying wait for me
Won't you let me come along
Before they start that blooming (bloody) song
I'm so fed up with the fields of Athenry


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 06:05 PM

Just followed this 'debate' and it seams there are quite a few irked Rangers fans who think they are being 'singled out' for a wee party tune that's really not that offensive to anyone. A mere riposte to Celtic fans singing about 'their' famine song: the fields of Athenry. Oh and quite a few 'non Rangers fans' as well, although I think they do protest too loudly.

That song is a quite beautiful, sad tale of injustice and would be welcome in any folk club in the world (well maybe not in Paisley Rd West). Thelyrics

To say that the chorus 'The famines over, why don't you go home' is a justs reply to anyone who keeps going on about it just about sums up some of the unenlightened meanderings of some people who are well and truly nostalgic for the past.

They can't accept that people who used to have to take it, because they were treated as second class citizens, now have a voice and can complain and point out that there are indeed some vile peepil around who can't accept that those of Irish descent have equal rights and an equal say in Scottish society today.

There are some quite illogical posts in this debate. The post that says the whole song lyrics have been made up recently despite acknowledging that there were Youtube postings by Rangers fans of the whole song for a whole year and most recently at Manchester just beggar belief.

One of Scotlands bravest journalists has just today asked Martin Bain to make a stance against the large minority of bigots amongst the Rangers fans who continue to be a blight on his club. Just Google G Spiers Times Rangers fans and you'll see how long he has been complaining. He is the son of a Protestant minister and has no Celtic axe to grind.

You have to ask yourself why the Rangers fans can't still accept that Jock Stein as a Protestant chose to play for and manage Celtic as did many of this teams greats (Danny Mcgrain, Kenny Dalglish). Why child abuse is not the sole preserve of the Catholic church (eg Kincorra boys home and many other homes) and that to maintain this 'superior' stance smacks of the chosen race mentality that does humanity no service at all.

Why don't THEY get over it and start liking themselves instead of hating others. FFS even Ian Paisley managed it!!

They will continue to be Scotlands shame until that day comes.


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