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the Rangers 'Famine Song'

Jack Campin 16 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM
John MacKenzie 16 Sep 08 - 04:11 PM
Jack Campin 16 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM
Brakn 16 Sep 08 - 05:07 PM
John MacKenzie 16 Sep 08 - 05:08 PM
John MacKenzie 16 Sep 08 - 05:16 PM
Jack Campin 16 Sep 08 - 06:38 PM
MartinRyan 16 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM
Jack Campin 16 Sep 08 - 07:57 PM
GUEST,Dinky 17 Sep 08 - 12:58 AM
Jim Lad 17 Sep 08 - 01:03 AM
GUEST,Hail-Hail 17 Sep 08 - 01:09 AM
GUEST,the words for the song 17 Sep 08 - 03:40 AM
Paul Burke 17 Sep 08 - 04:21 AM
GUEST,ND 17 Sep 08 - 04:40 AM
GUEST,ND 17 Sep 08 - 04:49 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Sep 08 - 04:55 AM
Brakn 17 Sep 08 - 04:55 AM
Jim Lad 17 Sep 08 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,Paisley Monkey 17 Sep 08 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,ND 17 Sep 08 - 05:59 AM
GUEST,ND 17 Sep 08 - 06:14 AM
Teribus 17 Sep 08 - 06:44 AM
GUEST,ed 17 Sep 08 - 06:57 AM
Jack Campin 17 Sep 08 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,Jack Union 17 Sep 08 - 09:26 AM
John MacKenzie 17 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM
John MacKenzie 17 Sep 08 - 11:57 AM
Jim Lad 17 Sep 08 - 11:58 AM
GUEST 17 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM
Jim Lad 17 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,Aln Bill 17 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,littleborough loyal 17 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM
Joe Offer 17 Sep 08 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Jim Gorman 17 Sep 08 - 05:56 PM
MartinRyan 17 Sep 08 - 06:28 PM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Sep 08 - 08:52 PM
GUEST,Markyboy 17 Sep 08 - 08:56 PM
GUEST,Markyboy 17 Sep 08 - 09:21 PM
GUEST,Nitshill Bear 18 Sep 08 - 04:23 AM
MartinRyan 18 Sep 08 - 04:42 AM
GUEST 18 Sep 08 - 04:42 AM
Brakn 18 Sep 08 - 04:49 AM
John MacKenzie 18 Sep 08 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,Jack Union 18 Sep 08 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Nitshill Bear 18 Sep 08 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,Aln Bill 18 Sep 08 - 09:24 AM
Big Tim 18 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM
John MacKenzie 18 Sep 08 - 11:11 AM
Manitas_at_home 18 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM
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Subject: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM

Google "Rangers famine song" for details of the current stushie.

But all I can find is the chorus (tune: chorus of "The Sloop John B"):
Why don't you go home? why don't you go home?
The famine's over, why don't you go home?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:11 PM

I can't find the words either, but I note the Irish government has complained. Where are the complaints when the Celtic fans sing anti British songs I wonder?
Not that I have any time for either side, as I loathe football, and all the hatred it engenders.

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM

Well, the UK regime has the legal power to lock up an entire Celtic supporters' crowd indefinitely without access to a lawyer under present anti-terrorism laws for the sort of stuff they routinely sing, so I think they've taken care of the complaining for you.

What I could follow of that Rangers song (the YouTube sound was appalling) seemed like fairly innocuous banter to me.

I don't know why they bother having football teams at all, surely it's more fun for the opposite sides to just sing songs about Thompson guns and being knee-deep in blood at each other?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Brakn
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:07 PM

Knock this one down to the BS please.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:08 PM

Billy Connolly once described a Celtic v Rangers match, as an event where the opposing fans shouted insults at each other for 90 minutes. Then they went home and turned on the TV to find out what the score was.

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:16 PM

It is about a song, so it's borderline.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:38 PM

If you listen to the YouTube clips you'd see the problem - the recordings are so bad the words are impossible to make out, even in the version sung by a duet. I would like to know what they are.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM

For what it's worth, there seems to be a version HERE

Regards

p.s. B.S.?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:57 PM

Well, one positive thing you can say about it is that Athenry Mike got telt.

Who is/was Large John?

Do we know who wrote the song and where it first appeared? A fanzine, at a guess?

The comment on the St Pauli board "Can you imagine the reaction if this was sung to black or Asian fans?" misses the point entirely. There is a long tradition of hyperbolic insult between Celtic and Rangers fans - this stuff isn't taken all that seriously by most of the people dishing it out. There is no such tradition of toothless offensiveness in relations between whites and blacks or Asians. Instead, the really dangerous white racists like the BNP leadership are creepily polite (up to the point when they're actually kicking your head in). I know which I'd least like to be on the receiving end of.

Whereas the Irish state getting involved is giving a paranoia-and-martyrdom fix to the small minority of Rangers fans who really *do* mean it. It's exactly what they want.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Dinky
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:58 AM

As an american I can't understand why the celtic fans complain about the rangers songs, looks like its a bit one sided according to the telegraph, guess if they all went home would be better for everyone, So grab your shovel and get on yer bikes back to your homeland


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:03 AM

As a Scot I can tell you that this topic is extremely volatile and does not belong in the music threads.
Please.
Move it down.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Hail-Hail
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:09 AM

I don't think that guys an American, he's a jock, anyway I would go back, if Rangers did not have celtic there would be no scottish league, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, they would be nothing without celtic, anyway off to pack my shovel and oil the wheels on my bike, you let us in first, us bitter and twisted Tims, but now the place is full of Hamilton Accies, time to get out.


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Subject: ADDL The Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,the words for the song
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:40 AM

Famine Song

I often wonder where they would have been
If we hadn't have taken them in
Fed them and washed them
Thousands in Glasgow alone
From Ireland they came
Brought us nothing but trouble and shame
Well the famine is over
Why don't they go home?

Now Athenry Mike was a thief
And Large John he was fully briefed
And that wee traitor from Castlemilk
Turned his back on his own
They've all their Papists in Rome
They have U2 and Bono
Well the famine is over
Why don't they go home?

INSTRUMENTAL

Now they raped and fondled their kids
That's what those perverts from the darkside did
And they swept it under the carpet
and Large John he hid
Their evils seeds have been sown
Cause they're not of our own
Well the famine is over
Why don't you go home?

Now Timmy don't take it from me
Cause if you know your history
You've persecuted thousands of people
In Ireland alone
You turned on the lights
Fuelled U boats by night
That's how you repay us
It's time to go home.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:21 AM

I think the response should be swift and simple. Football should be banned in Scotland, and the wage limit reimposed (at 1958 levels) in the rest of the UK.

The song is pretty nasty, and similar to the kind of songs churned out by Eastern European shite nationalists. Note that the BNP camp in Derbyshire recently invited a Czech waster along- one who advocates a "final solution" for the Roma.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,ND
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:40 AM

It's hypocritical of Rangers fans and other ignorant Scots to sing the "Famine Song". If they know their own history, countless Scots themselves suffered famine particularly in the Highlands where many had their clan lands taken from them and ammalgamated into English gentry owned estates.

Many hungry Scots emigrated to Canada and the USA, as did the Irish.

What if earlier settled British Columbians, Quebecians and Nova Scotians started to tell the Scots in those places to go home?

One thing the Scots forget or don't want to remember: The original Scoti were from Ireland, they migrated over to what is now Scotland and displaced or intermarried with the native Pictish.

Ireland > Scoti > Scotland.

Go figure.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,ND
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:49 AM

And one more thing: the Scots have a lot more in common with Ireland than they do with the English or Welsh:

the Gaelic language ("Clan" = Scottish / "Clann" = Irish), the heritage of whiskey/whisky, the bracken and heather, the ceili/ceilidh, and a lot more.

Scots should realise that the historical wedge driven between the culturally and racially related Irish and Scots was forged in the English crown court and parliament, right? The principle was simple: divide and conquer.

Anyway, there are the ignorant idiot types on both Celtic and Rangers sides, I suspect many are from their so-called inner city "turf"s, their common denominator being that they are shit-stirrers and jealous of others who succeed and overcome prejudices. That's how they get their kicks.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:55 AM

England has quite a lot of bracken and heather too.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Brakn
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:55 AM

I don't know why this thread hasn't been removed.

If the KKK(with their long tradition) came out with the same song sung to Obama "slavery is over, why don't you go home" what would be the response?
Would we discuss that?


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:19 AM

That song is directed at me and my family.
Please remove it.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Paisley Monkey
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:38 AM

In response to Jack's comment, those lyrics are all that is ever sung.I'm so glad that nobody in England has reported the Tartan Army to the UK government for Flower of Scotlands lyics.This is now becoming silly.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,ND
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:59 AM

Sure Keith and I love those parts of England too, and places like the Lake District, Yorkshire, and so on.

Anyway, Scottish emigration was called "the Clearances" and it's a very emotive and suppressed topic, as the topic of the Famine is in Ireland. Needless to say, many English emigrated to Australia, Canada or the USA as well. Neither England, Ireland, Scotland nor Wales can opine that they weren't affected by hunger and emigration. It was a shared part of the history of these isles.

By the way there's a fine bronze Scottish Emigrants sculpture by artist Gerald Laing located at Helmsdale in Sutherland.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,ND
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:14 AM

"To understand the Clearances fully it is necessary to understand life as it used to be in the Scottish Highlands and Islands, home of the Gaels. The Gaels are the original Scots who arrived from Ireland about 1,500 years ago."

Source: http://www.highlandclearances.info/clearances/preclearances_thegaels.htm

So isn't it ironic that some or possibly many of those Rangers fans who are bigots may well be descended from Gaels and are therefore prejudicing their own blood kind?

'nuf said!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:44 AM

Scottish Clearances – Massive over simplifications

"If they know their own history, countless Scots themselves suffered famine particularly in the Highlands where many had their clan lands taken from them and amalgamated into English gentry owned estates."

"One more thing: the Scots have a lot more in common with Ireland than they do with the English or Welsh"

"Scots should realise that the historical wedge driven between the culturally and racially related Irish and Scots was forged in the English crown court and parliament, right?"

"Many English emigrated to Australia, Canada or the USA as well"


Scottish clearances started a lot earlier than Guest ND would have us think – mid 1600's. Nothing whatsoever to do with the English Crown Court or parliament. Had quite a lot to do with a certain Scottish King who having moved down to London to become Monarch of both Scotland and England wanted to solve what he saw as being troubles in his "middle-shires" (i.e. the Anglo-Scottish borders). Solution was simple, or so it seemed, the Irish Nobility, primarily the O'Neill's, for much of Elizabeth's reign had been plotting with the Spaniards to hand over Ireland to Spain, with the O'Neill's of course serving as Governors of the whole new "colony". A largely catholic Ireland in the power of catholic Spain would have constantly threatened the new protestant countries of England and Scotland. So James I (England) & VI (Scotland) took the worst of the "riding" families of the borders and "planted" them in Northern Ireland (on forfeited O'Neill land). If anybody would fight for what they had been given it would be the family and kinsmen of the former "Marcher" Lords, after all they had been doing exactly that for all of the previous 350 years. Those were the first "Scottish Clearances".

The "Highland Clearances" also started earlier than is popularly supposed and they were started by Scottish land owners and clan chiefs when it became plain that rule of law and order meant that having large numbers of fighting men on your land was costly and inefficient, so they turned their lands over to cattle and sheep. Forfeited highland estates did not automatically go to "English" land owners or gentry, they went to the highest bidder, or were given for services rendered, most went to lowland Scots. More Scots fought for the Crown than for the Jacobite cause.

Only a tiny proportion of Scots share the ties mentioned by Guest ND. In terms of culture the majority of Scots have a great deal more in common with the English and the Welsh than with the Irish.

As far as emigration goes far more English emigrated than either Scots or Irish (To Australia for example for every 1 Irish emigrant there were either 3 or 4 from England). All the original 13 American Colonies were English settlements. Canada was settled originally by the Scots and English as well as the French.
As to "the song", anybody who pays the slightest notice to what the morons who watch either "Glasgow" side chant needs their bumps read. All those clowns ever succeed in doing is showing to the world at large what complete and utter fools they are. Were it not for the publicity stunt of the complaint to the Irish Government 99.9% of the people in the British Isles would never have known of the damn songs existence.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,ed
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:57 AM

Rangers fans singing "go home"? Most Rangers fans are descended from lowland 'Scots', planters, English in origin and no more 'native' than the Celtic fans of Irish origin that they are telling to 'go home' it makes me laugh because I have heard this at close quarters being sung by Northern Irish Rangers 'fans' who are themselves the progeny of planters. The Scoti as the Romans named them are in fact Irish as in Dalriada. The Rangers fans sing these songs to rile up the Celtic fans but using the innocent dead of a famine which took the lives of a million and a half men, women and children is particularly low and vile. Both sets of fans are guilty of engaging in vile songs and chants and it should be stamped out, Scotland along with Northern Ireland still seems to have this minority on both sides who just can't leave this sectarian bigotry behind. What is wrong with these people? Can they not support their team without reverting to this uncivilized and barbaric behaviour? Scotland as a country needs to address this and the morons who sing these sort of vile songs need to get a life!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:53 AM

: countless Scots themselves suffered famine particularly in the Highlands

And many of them went to Glasgow, where they were not made a whole lot more welcome than the Irish, though they assimilated faster. People in Glasgow didn't suffer from famine.

: where many had their clan lands taken from them

Spare us that romanticizing bollocks. The clan system was dead and gone beyond living memory by the 1840s. Nobody thought of "clan lands" at that time.

The situation here is NOT parallel to slavery in the US or the treatment of Roma in Eastern Europe (or for that matter to the relationship between Palestinians and Zionists, despite some Celtic and Rangers fans making the connection and waving Palestinian and Israeli flags respectively at matches). It isn't even comparable to northern Ireland. There is nowhere near as much at stake, and just about the ONLY time the issue comes up these days is around football. Nobody in Glasgow is being dragged to death behind a car, forced to live in a shanty town, or getting their house bulldozed.

I agree it is not exactly a lovable song, but it's no worse than things already in the DT (and it belongs there).


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jack Union
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:26 AM

For your info Jack Campin - Large John in the song is Big Jock Stein, a man who knew, among other things, all about the bigotry doled out to Protestant employees of Celtic Football Club.

Jock Stein was probably Celtics greatest manager, they won multiple Cups, League Championships and the European Cup during his reign. Upon his retiral and after his not insignificant contribution he should have been given a seat on the board and looked after by the club for the rest of his days. However, being a Protestant and given the fact that Celtic had never had a Protestant on their board, he was shamefully treated by the club and, to all intents and purposes, given a job looking after the club lottery!

However badly Jock Stein was ultimately treated by the club he was revered by the support, who would regale anyone, who had the misfortune to be their audience, with misty-eyed tales of how there was absolutely nothing happened within miles of Celtic Park that Big Jock didn't know about. Apparently he always knew which slop-houses Jimmy Johnstone and Bertie Auld etc were lying unconcious in due to his information network. He knew exactly what all his players were up to at any given time, he knew what the board of directors were planning to do long before he was told. For decades, Celtic supporters would bore everyone to tears telling them how much Big Jock knew. Unfortunately the one thing that Big Jock appears to have known absolutely nothing about was the systematic child abuse by a peadophile ring of Celtic Football Club employees against an indeterminate number of children who played for Celtic Boys Club over a period of God knows how many years. It is, without a doubt, the biggest scandal ever to befall Scottish Football, ever! And Big Jock didn't know! What made it worse was that it was simply brushed over by a compliant Scottish media. Compare the front-page banner headlines about an obscure song that nobody could make out the words to by all accounts, and the media whitewash of the defiling of innocent children where the reporting was relegated to a few paragraphs on the inside pages. To the normal people out there I ask you which is worse? Pseudo-offensive song or child abuse?

Quite frankly, I am fed up with over-sensitive Celtic supporters whose moral indignation doesn't stretch far enough to condemn their own kind who "celebrate" The Ibrox Disaster where 66 innocent people, including women and children went to watch a game of football and never came home. Who also celebrate atrocities like the Enniskillen Poppy Day Massacre and the Omagh Bombing and who cannot wait "until there are no Protestants left." Don't bother trying to tell me that it's only a minority who have this view either. Anyone who bothers to scratch at the surface of this mob will find a deep-rooted hatred for Britain, Unionism, Protestantism and Rangers Football Club. Not necessarily in that order.

As long as football rivalries exist there will be offensive songs. It doesn't matter whether it's Rangers-Celtic, Man Utd-Liverpool or Cowdenbeath-East Fife the song is sung with the primary intention of winding up your rivals. However for some muppet to go as far as to complain to foreign state about a song being sung at a football match says an awful lot more about himself than it does about the people who were singing it.

For all the intellectual historians above who have tried to dissect the pysche behind The Famine Song - don't! Here it is in a nutshell. Most Rangers fans (but not all admittedly)that I know have absolutely no problem with anyone, regardless of colour, creed or religion, with the exception of terrorists and their sympathisers who come to our shores for succour and refuge then attempt to bomb and blast us into their way of thinking. Whether they be Irish Terrorists or Al Qaeda, as far as I am concerned they can go home, they are not welcome! For that I make no apology.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM

There would seem to be no point in deleting the words of this song which someone posted earlier, and leaving the thread to continue.
If it can't be discussed fully, then delete this thread.

JM

We are not in the habit of eliminating threads just because the content is controversial. Nor is this going to be moved to BS, as it revolves entirely around a song. There are any number of examples of similar discussions that one can find over the years. What will be eliminated is personal attack. Heated discussion about the lyrics are fine, personal attacks are not. Muderator


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:57 AM

Then why remove the lyrics of the song the thread revolves around? Don't get me wrong I hold no brief on either side here, and find the whole thing hateful, I just find the deletion inappropriate.

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:58 AM

If this song was about blacks and Asizis complained, you would move it.
The song is typical of the bigoted religious taunts which Catholics in Scotland face on a daily basis and which ultimately drove me and others like me from my own country.
I have alluded to this fact in another thread a long time ago.
Jock Mackenzie is behaving just like those bigot's.
Delete the damn thread.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM

It is pointless bringing history into the equation where this song is concerned. Few of the people involved know anything much about it or are in the least bit interested

Anyone who has an insight to the psyche of the Glesca fitba' hooligan must be laughing their socks off at this.

The masts to which the fans pin their colours are over 300 years old and are merely a vehicle for them to vent their nonsense in each other's direction.

Celtic fans belt out the 'Fields of Athenrye' celebrating the struggle of the Irish poor rebelling against the famine and the British Crown and the Rangers fans have (quite recently in fact) now started responding with the 'Famine Song'.

My advice to all concerned would be to grow up and get a life. My advicae to governments, police and football authorities would be to steer clear and, by so doing, deny these idiots the credence the seek.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM

I thought guests were supposed to leave a name.
Upon reflection, I have to say that John Mackenzie is actually trying to bring some kind of reason to this thread.
Having myself, been raised on the other side of the fence, the wounds are too deep and the scars too many for me to discuss this topic in a reasonable fashion.
My apologies to all.
Jim Brannigan


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM

Just to point out that the "full version" of the song, with multiple verses posted above, is a COMPLETELY artificial construct.

The only lines EVER sung by Rangers fans are to the tune of "Sloop John B", and are:

"Why don't you go home?
Why don't you go home?
The famine's over,
Why don't you go home?"

Nothing more, nothing less.

(The "full version" appears to have been strangely whisked up by somebody with too much time on their hands and not enough rhythm in their body).


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,littleborough loyal
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM

why is there no uproar when the scum in green and grey sing songs about killing british soldiers and making death threats to rangers players maybe its just another irish folk song


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:47 PM

Well, there were three identical copies of the lyrics posted, and two were deleted. The first posting of the lyrics was deleted, but I can't tell if the deletion was done before or after the second copy was posted. All three lyrics posts appear to have come from this page, which Martin Ryan linked toward the top of the thread - but our policy is that we generally post music information for discussion, in addition to posting a link.
There seems to be an interesting difference here between European and American thinking. I rarely get requests from Americans that lyrics be deleted, no matter how objectionable they are. Americans want to see, and judge for themselves. I often get demands from Euopeans that thus-and-such should be deleted, and how can Mudcat allow such tripe to be posted.
Yeah, the song is awful - but it's interesting. The "awful" songs we have nowadays are the only examples of the "folk process" we have remaining in this world. Almost all other songs are commercially produced.
So, yes, I am disgusted by the song and the sentiments it portrays. But I am also appalled by the thought of deleting it, or deleting the discussion of such a song. Nonetheless, we do watch thread like this and try to control the nameless bigoted posts that some of our drive-by anonymous posters leave behine.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jim Gorman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:56 PM

I often wonder where they would have been....
    This is the fourth copy-paste of the very same lyrics in this thread. We've deleted all but one. Full text above (click).
    -Joe Offer-

There is the words to this song, now look at it and tell me it is not bigoted, and also glorifies chid abuse. Scotlands Shame


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:28 PM

GUESTJim

The words have been posted here three times already, thanks.

It appears that, in practice, only the chorus is sung at matches. This effectively turns it into a football chant rather than a song. Anyone think of other examples of this happening? There are certainly chants which use the chorus tune/structure of well-known songs - but this case is different. Was the verse created after the chant, so to speak? Some of the poor versifying would suggest the latter.


Regards


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:52 PM

Me Eyes ain't what they used ta be...

I thought the title was "The Fannie Song"

Don't worry, they used ta be me ears...


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Markyboy
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:56 PM

There's an old adage that many seem to be ignoring ... two wrongs don't make a right.

ALL bigotry and racism, which the lyrics of this so-called 'song' seem to reflect whether sung in full or not, is undesirable. Nothing against people celebrating and remembering their diverse cultural heritage but when it's obviously deliberately offensive it has no place; particularly in a Glasgow footbal context, as those who have suffered the injuries from the fall-out of mindless thuggery that all too often follows these games will attest to.

People of all persuasions ought to take a more responsible approach to their behaviour, particularly in this context, as the petty points scoring noted above establishes beyond doubt. It's an e-forum equivalent to how the pub and street arguments start that end in mindless violence.

As wee Fergus would have said, get a reality check.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Markyboy
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:21 PM

On Joe's observations re the difference in American and European thinking; it is a very interesting cultural difference and it's good to see some sensible discussion about the socio-political backdrop to music of whatever kind.

In America, there seems to be the tradition, from the Constiution I suppose, of the luxury, if one can call it that, of true unfettered freedom of speech, although I'm sure my American cousins would have something to say about that in the light of Patriot Act etc but nevertheless, in Europe the contrast is, under the ECHR, it's legitimate to fetter freedom of speech for example to protect public order.

That contrast is interesting and makes a very interesting European backdrop to protest songs or political songs generally but I think it's probably stretching academic legitmacy to overly analyse this song as such. Surely, anyone with respect for human life would have to concede that whilst this song is by objective definition 'music', most right thinking folk probably wouldn't give it house-room.

It's basically a racist rant set to music and I'm sure we can all think of more worthy topics to discuss.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Nitshill Bear
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:23 AM

MarkyBoy, I totally agree, two wrongs don't make a right. I'd also suggest that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I could swallow this whole stushie if I thought there was an even-handedness about the reportage and subsequent action by any legitimate authorities. But as certain parties are permitted to spew their bile with impunity, it's very hard to take all the faux-moralising from the press, the Sellick fans and the inumerable nameless strangers on the Internet. Celtic have turned "being offended" into a cottage industry. It's time to expose them for what they are.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:42 AM

This thread has been worth it for introducing me to the word "stushie"! It's wonderful!

Regards


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:42 AM

Just to re-emphasis the BIG point here: the FOUR lines are ALL that is sung.

The "complete song" is a fabrication.
You can pwerhaps ask yourself WHO fabricated it.

This small chant has been sung for over a YEAR now, including last season.
It would appear that the outrage felt by certain people has a long fuse.

The chant is NOT "racist" or "discriminatory" -- the very people singing it themselves have strong roots in the very island that the Famine occurred in, and doubtless their own ancestors suffered too.

The theme of the four-line chant is to ask why people who yearn for "their home country" don't just go home?!

Unfortunately, Celtic fans have previous for scurrilous accusations: they accused Rangers (wrongly) over banning green pepperami, eggs benedict, of cutting their pitch into the shape of a ceremonial sash, of wearing socks with red tops that symbolised blood, etc, etc.

It's a scattergun approach, and yet again the world has been taken in.
Taken in by fans who admit to sympathising with terrorists, who mocked the 9-11 tragedy with airplane gestures to an American Rangers player, who threw bananas onto the pitch when Rangers' black player Mark Walters played, and whose Boys Club were involved in the worst case of child abuse in Scotland's recent history.

But they STILL try to make out that a chant asking why people don't go home is offensive !!!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Brakn
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:49 AM

Now you know why Ranger's fans are so well thought of around the world.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 05:11 AM

Only those who were born and brought up in the Glasgow area is able to truly appreciate the insidiousness of this Rangers/Celtic, Celtic/Rangers divide.
As Jim Brannigan says, it has driven people from their homes, and even their countries.
Most of you will never know the fear of being approached when you are standing at a bus stop, by a gang of threatening looking characters, and being asked "Whit team dae ye support?"
If you want to avoid a kicking, you better give the right answer, otherwise that's you for a bruising.
This; for no other reason than the fact you may support another team, and let me tell you from painful experience, it doesn't help to say "I'm not interested in football"
While there are efforts on the go, to try and stamp out this prejudice, it is in a lot of cases a waste of time.
There is a red neck element on BOTH sides, who received their hatred mixed with their mother's milk, and they will always exist.
Those are the sort of people who look on their offspring marrying a member of the opposite faith, in the same light as a KKK member who's offspring married a black person.
Make no mistake about it, it's as serious as life its self in certain quarters, and as I said at the start. You have to have been there to know what you're talking about.

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Jack Union
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:22 AM

Am I missing something here?

I wholeheartedly agree that the rivalry between Rangers and Celtic supporters often oversteps the boundaries of good taste. Are we to seriously believe though that the singing of a semi-offensive song is to be the catalyst for people being driven from their homes?

John MacKenzie is correct when he says there is a redneck element on both sides, however the vast majority of Rangers and Celtic fans indulge in a bit of 90 minute bigotry and go back to work on Monday and work happily alongside their colleagues from the other side and indulge in a bit of football banter. The thugs who administer a good kicking because you support the wrong team are not exclusively Rangers or Celtic supporters. People like that live and breathe in every town and city in the UK. English hooligans used to favour asking an unfortunate pedestrian what the time was. If he responded in a non-local accent then the next few minutes would be pretty miserable for him. Tribalism like this is not exclusive to the Old Firm. If you get the chance watch "The Real Football Factories" series presented by Danny Dyer from the crap "Hooligan" film, The Football Factory. The second series covered football hooligan activity worldwide. Some of the Firms in South America and particularly the Former Yugoslavian Republics make Rangers-Celtic look like a Sunday School trip.

I must confess I was unaware of the full lyrics until yesterday, but whilst it may not be full of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, I don't consider them to be any more offensive than many other songs and chants sung at football grounds everywhere by fans of all teams. All it really says is that there is no longer a reason for you to subject yourselves to living in Britain, which you clearly hate, so feel free to return "home". As stated by other contributors the chorus was sung to wind-up Scottish Celtic supporters, who live a lie and who are as Irish as Robert the Bruce, on a day when their team took a severe beating from their greatest rivals. To attempt to twist the facts and draw parallels with BNP and KKK and ethnic cleansing of people from their homes and countries is typical of mindset of these permanently-offended clowns.

Yesterday I mentioned the guy who complained to the Irish Consul about the song, but truth is now that I am pleased he opened up the can of worms. It has backfired spectacularly and he has now exposed to a wider audience the cretins within his compatriots who have, for far too long now, been able to sing their songs of murder, hate and alleged martyrdom of dead terrorists, but who have been shielded by sympathetic journalists who take great pleasure in highlighting Rangers' less savoury elements at every opportunity.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Nitshill Bear
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:57 AM

John MacKenzie needs to stop hanging around bus stops in Possil.


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: GUEST,Aln Bill
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:24 AM

Of course, complaints about Rangers songs areb't a new thing --- several years ago a certain Rangers legal man sang a song at a private function and was chased from football office for it.
That song has since been verified in a Scottish court of law as "not sectarian".

Last year Celtic fans were successful in getting another Rangers fans' song banned, on the basis that it referred to an unpleasant Glasgow gang ... from over fifty years ago.

Shame that their own "gang-related" songs have never been targeted in a similar manner.

Indeed, Rangers fans are in the unusual situation of being banned from singing ANY words to a certain tune, and yet ... hearing other clubs' fans across Scotland and England singing what they want to that tune.
How's that for selective musical censorship ??!!

And ... we now hear that the Spanish consulate in Scotland has been in touch with Scottish authorities to complain about a recent piece of craic from Celtic fans -- their death threats to the Spanish Catholic Rangers player.

Still, that CAN'T be a s offensive as asking a simple question, can it ????


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Big Tim
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM

The Famine song is just a wind-up. Relax, don't do it. When two tribes go to war, a point is all that you can score.                                                

My fellow Celtic fans aren't perfect either. Last time I was at Celtic Park (in 2005, the night we drew with Hearts and won the League), I was disgusted by the drunken idiot next to me who kept shouting 'up the RA' (IRA). Mind you, he was just reacting to some nearby, virulent Hearts fans.

The daftest, most insulting and most irrational Rangers chant is 'we are the people'.

Martin, re 'stushie', I recommend 'Chambers Concise Scottish Dictionary'!


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:11 AM

I thought 'Wee are the people' was the war cry of the pygmies.
Which I suppose, makes it suitable for the mental pygmies on both sides.

JM


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Subject: RE: the Rangers 'Famine Song'
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM

You've got that confused with 'We're the Illawee!"


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