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BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits

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Bert 31 Jul 08 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 31 Jul 08 - 02:18 PM
Peace 31 Jul 08 - 02:29 PM
MaineDog 31 Jul 08 - 04:38 PM
Charley Noble 31 Jul 08 - 05:12 PM
Rabbi-Sol 31 Jul 08 - 07:01 PM
Donuel 31 Jul 08 - 09:06 PM
Teribus 31 Jul 08 - 09:14 PM
Donuel 31 Jul 08 - 09:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 31 Jul 08 - 09:39 PM
Teribus 31 Jul 08 - 09:54 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Jul 08 - 10:01 PM
DougR 31 Jul 08 - 10:03 PM
Kent Davis 31 Jul 08 - 10:16 PM
Peace 31 Jul 08 - 11:30 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 08 - 12:45 AM
Bert 01 Aug 08 - 01:21 AM
Barry Finn 01 Aug 08 - 02:58 AM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 01 Aug 08 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 01 Aug 08 - 05:08 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 08 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,number 6 01 Aug 08 - 01:15 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 01 Aug 08 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,Eb 01 Aug 08 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 01 Aug 08 - 04:32 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 08 - 04:45 PM
katlaughing 01 Aug 08 - 07:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 08 - 08:29 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 01 Aug 08 - 08:38 PM
MarkS 01 Aug 08 - 09:30 PM
Peace 01 Aug 08 - 09:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 08 - 09:52 PM
Kent Davis 01 Aug 08 - 10:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 08 - 10:32 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 02 Aug 08 - 12:04 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Aug 08 - 01:27 AM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 02 Aug 08 - 01:35 AM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 02 Aug 08 - 01:39 AM
Donuel 02 Aug 08 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Eb 02 Aug 08 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,Eb 02 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 02 Aug 08 - 02:41 PM
robomatic 02 Aug 08 - 03:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Aug 08 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 02 Aug 08 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 02 Aug 08 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,Sawzaw 02 Aug 08 - 03:49 PM
robomatic 02 Aug 08 - 03:54 PM
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GUEST,Jack the Sailor 02 Aug 08 - 04:14 PM
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Subject: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Bert
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 02:15 PM

Must be Obama's fault.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 02:18 PM

Yes Obama is responsible for High oil profits.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 02:29 PM

Have to agree with you there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: MaineDog
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:38 PM

Actually, it is the fault of the accounting rules permitted for the oil companies. They are allowed to take profit as a percentage of their
"cost of goods sold" : as their per gallon price goes up, their profit goes up proportionally, even though it costs them no more to PROCESS a costly gallon than a cheap one.


Filling stations, however, are required to take their profit as so many cents per GALLON , and so their processing costs (credit charges) go up per gallon, and their sales in gallons are declining, so that many of them are hurting badly.

Sounds like Republican dirty work to me.

MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 05:12 PM

I guess they won't need a bake sale to bail them out.

Any one else for cake?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:01 PM

The ironic thing is that their stock was down today. Although they posted the greatest profit ever in their history it was still below the figure that the Wall Street analysts projected that it should be.

My heart really bleeds borscht for them as much as my pockets bleed dollars everytime I fill up at the pump.

                                                    SOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:06 PM

Rabbi, last year at a Mobile station I made small talk to an older gentleman also filling his tank.

I said "Gas is really going up isn't it."

He said "yes, this month alone my stock has gone up 10%"


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:14 PM

Sounds like some people posting here do not know what they are talking about. Why not read up on subject before pontificating on the subject.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:22 PM

Duhhaee wut didja say? we are sooo toopid we doan unnerstan youse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:39 PM

Shareholders were unhappy, since the income did not increase sufficiently, thus somewhat lower dividends are likely. In 2006, $32.6 billion was distributed to shareholders, more in 2007.
Like other oil companies with a large refining business, they have paid more for each barrel of oil as producing countries raised prices as demand increased, but costs passed on to the buyers of refined products are lower than the increase for their crude purchases.

As new refineries now are being built near the crude sources, more and more oil will be shipped in the refined state, reducing costs. Exxon-Mobil is one of the companies building refineries and petrochemical plants nearer the sources, e. g. Saudi Arabia and Emirates; they have a large petrochemical operation in Singapore, and have signed contracts for refining and petrochemical plants in China.

If one examines the Fortune list of 500 largest corporations, it is evident that profit as a percent of revenue is higher for a number of companies than it is for Exxon-Mobil.
In 2006, Citigroup, Microsoft, Bank of America, Johnson and Johnson, Pfizer, Intel, etc., made more profits relative to revenue, and were able to pay, in some cases, better dividends to their investors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:54 PM

Donuel, please read the last post carefully. "Q" actually knows and understands what the oil & gas business is all about and can explain it rationally in comparison to others and a great deal more clearly than I ever could.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:01 PM

Profit, as a percent of revenue, is a VERY misleading statistic. If you have sufficient volume, as is the case with operations like oil companies and supermarkets, a very small percentage profit is a whale of a lot of money. Return on Investment is a much better measure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: DougR
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:03 PM

Right on, Exxon Mobil! My grandson is an engineer with the company. Maybe he will get a huge raise! I doubt the stockholders are complaining much either.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Kent Davis
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:16 PM

How interesting to think of profits being high as a "fault".

If one of us sells something for a handsome price at a yard sale, or if one of us gets a raise at work, or gets a nice dividend check, we would hardly ask whose "fault" it is that we did well.

Low profits, or losses, may indeed be someone's fault. High profits would be to someone's credit.

After all, that money doesn't just disappear. Money is either taxed, spent, or saved. It therefore ultimately goes for government expenses (if taxed), goods and services, capital investment, wages, bonuses, benefits, et cetera (if spent), and pensions, dividends, loans, delayed capital investment, et cetera (if saved).

Kent


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:30 PM

The thing being missed is that the rising cost of POL is then driving higher transpot costs for many goods. The people whjo feel THAT most are the poor. So please let's don't present Exxon Mobil as white knights. They are hurting many REAL people--people who have to feed their kids. For those who can't see that, I feel sorry. And cutsey wise-ass shit from Doug don't change the fact that the poor ARE feeling it, and feeling it badly. Nice for the company and its stock holders. Not so nice for a single mom with hungry kids.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:45 AM

Return on investment? With regard to a company with over 100 years of investments? In fact two such companies, merged? My mind is boggled at the thought.
Let's see what the Annual Report shows. Some figures, in no particular order, but pertinent. 2006; last one published on the net.
One can get a figure for 'return on investment,' but I am not sure that it is meaningful.

-Net income, $39 billion
-Return on average capital employed, 32%
-Dividends paid $7.6 billion
-Purchase of stock from shareholders $25 billion
Thus $32.6 billion paid out to shareholders
-New Investment in the business, $20 billion in 2006
-Research and Development $700 million in 2006
-Seven start-up projects in 2006- In West Africa, Malaysia, Azerbaijan, Norway and Canada- each of these were researched and brought to development over several years
(personal note, I contributed to the initial Canadian project research some 30 years ago- it takes a long time to prove something out in exploration and to reach the stage where the project will provide a return, sometimes it is years before prices rise to the point that it becomes economically viable. I also did work on the Arctic, a very complex area and subject to pie in the sky guesstimates).

-Overall, some 60 major projects in various stages of development.
Purpose is to meet petroleum demands in 2030 that will be some 60% greater than in 2000.
-Proved reserves additions replaced 122% of production.

-Cash at year end- $28 billion
-Total assets at year end- $219 billion
-Total debt at year end $8.3 billion
-Shareholders equity $114 billion
-Average capital employed $122.5 billion
-Market valuation at year end $439 billion

Net income per common share $6.68
Current Assets to current liabilities 1.55

There are a few figures to play with. See the Annual Report for more and details.

Of particular interest in the Report is the section on Outlook for 2030, when demand is predicted to be 115 million barrels per day. The world's resources are adequate to meet rising demand through 2030, but huge investments will be required.

In 2030, oil, gas and coal will still be predominant!
Rising CO2 emissions pose significant risks for society and ecosystems, but the best options are yet to be picked and balanced.
[Much depends on international agreements, which may be difficult to reach- how?? this is my comment, not theirs.]

Exxon-Mobil scientists and economists predict that alternative fuels from crops, coal and natural gas will supply only a fracion of the fuel needed. Lots of talk, but oil will be at the top for decades.
In China and India, the developing economies will use coal to generate electricity, because their coal is abundant and the lowest cost option.
'Significant' growth in nuclear and renewable fuels is forseen.

Whew! Should have stopped long ago. Read their annual report, Royal Dutch Shell's, BP's, etc. Lots of data and some different viewpoints.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/XOM_2006_SAR.pdf

(The easiest way to find the annual reports of any company is Google the company name (in "") followed by 'annual report'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Bert
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 01:21 AM

The whole point of this thread Doug is that McCain blames Obama for the price of gas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:58 AM

And with record profits you'd think that they'd pay off their share of the fines incurred by the Exxon Valdez, how many years ago.

It will not pay for the nation (by oil ex's standards) to go green until 2030 has pasted, by then we'll be reduced to the costs of a goat fart in a rain barrel.

& it'll be Obama's fault for that too.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 04:41 AM

The thing about the Exxon-Mobil's profits is that in 2000, oil was what? $20 per barrel and they were making money. Now they get $130 for the same oil. Not all of their oil, but much of it. There refining costs may have gone up, but not in labour, not much, mostly fro transportation, but they can get diesel for their tankers at cost. Yeah they buy some oil on the spot market, but they pass that cost on at the pumps.

But in 2000 two more things happened. An oil man and a failed oil man were elected co-president and in 2001 the senior co-president met with Exxon Mobil.

Some time in the intervening time, the media went from blaming high oil prices on political instability in the Mid East to blaming it on demand from China and India.

I know these things are related, but I can't put my finger on how they are related.

(See Foolestroupe I do understand irony.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 05:08 AM

Fill 'er up...and by the way, can you get my windows too?'


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:44 PM

Exxon-Mobil plans to sell off its gasoline retailing business. There is little profit, expenses are high, competition is strong (Wal-Mart, etc.). Old news.
Some 800 wholly owned stations, 1400 more leased to dealers, will be sold. Most stations are in CA, NY, and concentrations in TX, FL, MD, TN and VA.

In many areas, oil companies sell to retailers that have best access to products from their refineries. In Calgary, e. g., Shell service stations sell gasoline from the Imperial Oil (subsidiary of Exxon-Mobil) refinery in Alberta, because it is cheaper and easier of access than product from its own refineries. The same is true of other retailers with various names, and it is true for many areas in the U. S. as well.
-------------------------------
Anyone who expects any serious "greening" before 2030 is dreaming.
Not until then or later will nuclear plants, wind farms, fuel cells, solar collecting farms, etc. be completed and infrastructure for distribution or use be anywhere near effective.

Most efforts towards "greening" must be international, and I see little likelihood of China, India, Canada and others with large coal supplies to fuel electrical energy and/or access to oil agreeing to abandon cheap (yes, it is cheap compared with viable alternatives) energy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 01:15 PM

"Fill 'er up...and by the way, can you get my windows too?'"

that's gone by the wayside here .... it's literally all self serve now ... maybe that accounts for the record profits.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:19 PM

The biggest reductions in carbon will come from conservation, from reducing wasteful practices. The US is the world leader in room for improvement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Eb
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 04:21 PM


                Gross $M       Net $M       Profit
Petronas         66,218       18,118       27.36%
Gazprom          98,642       19,269       19.53%
Vodafone         71,202       13,366       18.77%
Telefónica       77,254       12,190       15.78%
Petrobras       87,735       13,138       14.97%
Lukoil          67,205         9,511       14.15%
Nokia            69,886         9,862       14.11%
RoyalBScotland 108,392       15,103       13.93%
Santander       89,295       12,401       13.89%
P&G             76,476       10,340       13.52%
J.P. Morgan    116,353       15,365       13.21%
Goldman Sachs    87,968       11,599       13.19%
HSBC            146,500       19,133       13.06%
GE             176,656       22,208       12.57%
Bank of America 119,190       14,982       12.57%
France Télécom   72,488         8,623       11.90%
China Nat Petro 129,798       14,925       11.50%
ENI             120,565       13,703       11.37%
Berkshire Hatha 118,245       13,213       11.17%
Barclays         80,347         8,837       11.00%
Exxon Mobil    372,824       40,610       10.89%
China Nat Petro 129,798       14,925       11.50%
ENI             120,565       13,703       11.37%
Berkshire Hath 118,245       13,213       11.17%
Barclays         80,347         8,837       11.00%
Exxon Mobil    372,824       40,610       10.89%


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 04:32 PM

I think you will find that picture changed quite a bit in 2008 Eb. This year there won't be as many banks as the top or as much profit for non energy companies.

Also, calculating profit as a percent of gross is very misleading. Different businesses make money different ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 04:45 PM

I don't know where Eb got his figures, but they do show that Exxon-Mobil profits are not exceptional, as noted before.
Surprised at China N P, I had no idea that they were that big- or do the figures include both Chinese majors

I look forward to figures from Royal Dutch Shell, to see whether they match Exxon-Mobil for 2007.

Some figures surprise me, e. g., Berkshire Hathaway in 2006 listed revenues of 81,663 and profits 8,528; to 118,245m and profits 13,213m is quite a jump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 07:34 PM

5 million in profit PER HOUR:

This morning's news reports that America's biggest oil company announced it is now making $5 million in profit every hour of every day, the most profits of any American company ever in a single quarter. (Denver Post, 8/1/2008)

With this report, the world's top five oil companies are now on track to make more than $160 billion in profits this year, dramatically outpacing last year's $123 billion.


OBSCENE!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 08:29 PM

Reasonably pleasant results to the many individual stockholders, pension funds, teachers unions, credit unions, mutual funds, savings and loans, etc., that have the stocks in their portfolios.
They could be better; investors are worried that dividends will be down somewhat from the previous year.

Obscene? No, only reasonable considering the size and scale of operations.

Petronas of Malaysia, also a integrated explorer, producer and refiner, but smaller and newer, made more than double the profit percentage of Exxon-Mobil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 08:38 PM

Q,

All of those stockholders are suffering except for individuals with no diversity. Have you seen the Dow Jones? The banks a credit unions stockholders are suffering most because of the lack of oversight that led to the current liquidity crisis and all businesses except for oil related businesses are suffering because of the price of oil.

Exxon Mobil's profits are coming at the expense of everyone else, especially the average US voter.

It may or not be obscene, but if you don't vote against changing the status quo, you are not voting in your own economic self interest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: MarkS
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 09:30 PM

" $20 per barrel and they were making money. Now they get $130 for the same oil."
Weeeel = actually that is what they pay for the oil they refine into product and sell to us.
I wish my customers were bidding up the price of the product my company sells, but demand for industrial machinery is just not that great.
Anyhow - General Motors posted a 15.1 billion dollar loss this quarter. Don't hear any politicians yelling about "obscene" so far.
Maybe we can take the profit from Exxon and send some to GM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Peace
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 09:48 PM

"I don't know where Eb got his figures, "

She is a lady, and a great one at that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 09:52 PM

Dow Jones averages tell nothing of individual holdings. The funds, e. g., one like than held by the Ontario Teachers Union, has a very diversified portfolio, consisting of selected stocks and bonds, office buildings, mall and other commercial real estate and construction projects ($109 Billion in assets), and is prepared to ride the ups and downs of the markets, guided by their economic experts. The diversified energy companies happen to be bright at the moment and balance off sluggish holdings that they rate hold and not sell.

We cannot take production cheaply from the majors discoveries in Sakalin, China, Malaysia, etc., because the countries that the agreements are with get first dibs, only that which is excess to their needs can be sold elsewhere- and not at bargain prices, but the market price.

It is a myth that E-M and other majors profits come at the expense of business- it is the producers and the market that set the prices- the majors produce only part of the oil that they refine and transport, the rest they purchase. A 10.4% profit for 2007 is not excessive. (2007 annual report now on the net)
Scale, size, must be considered; the profit cannot be cut to the scale of a mom and pop business.

One might ask Canada, the No. 1 supplier of oil and natural gas to the U. S., to cut their price, but I doubt if the Canadian government would allow the producers to comply. One might ask Saudi Arabia, No. 2, or Mexico, No. 3 or Nigeria, No. 4, to cut back from the $140 or so, but I am sure that their answer would be no. Businesses must integrate the cost and the consumer must pay (his only recourse is to limit use as much as possible).

Some oil is still coming out of Texas, Alaska, Louisiana, etc. I suppose they could be forced to cut price, but on the other hand they might shut down and walk away to greener fields.

There is no way the next administration can change the 'status quo'- they don't hold the cards to make it happen. The market is global, and insular solutions are no longer possible.
Adapt or die.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Kent Davis
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 10:20 PM

Peace,

You are certainly right that higher prices mean that it costs more to buy things. However, this thread is about profit, not prices. Prices and profits are related, but they are not the same, as many a business owner has learned to his sorrow. Some businesses (think Target or WalMart) have low prices but are still profitable. Others may have high prices but still are not profitable.

By the way, since you pointed out that single mothers are real people, I hope you won't think it amiss if I point out that Exxon Mobil's employees (including many single mothers), and the many elderly people whose pension funds hold Exxon Mobil stock, are real people too.

Kent


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 10:32 PM

Eb a lady?

Her figures are OK, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 12:04 AM

Its not rocket science even for a trickle downer.

Exxon both produces from reserves of its own and buys oil on the spot market. They were making good money on their reserves when oil was 20 bucks a barrel the extra $110 per barrel is almost entirely profit.

That they are making those profits is good for them, but the price of fuel required for them to make that profit hurts pretty much every other US business. Other businesses are not hurt just for transportation costs but because demand is down for pretty much everything but fuel wile consumers pay a larger percent of their budgets on fuel.

Yes the profits of oil companies are obscene, but the windfall to foreign governments is even more obscene.

Bush and Cheney ought to be not only impeached. They ought to be prosecuted as traitors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 01:27 AM

Oh, my! Lets put the major oil companies in perspective with respect to reserves.
1. Exxon-Mobil buys 90% of the oil that it refines for the U. S. market. Moreover, the amount of refined oil that it buys is growing as the nations with the oil reserves build large refineries to add to their profits.

On the internet is a chart from Chevron Oil, printed by Credit Suisse First Boston, and lifted by a blogger- it is important information.
It shows just how small and weak the majors like Exxon, Shell, Chevron, Total, BP, etc., are.

2. Oil reserves, 'proven,' my figures approx. since I eye-balled them from the graph. (Gas is liquified conversion) B = billion bbls

NIOC (Iran) Oil- 130 B, Gas- 200 B
Saudi Arabia Oil- 180 B, Gas- 40B
Gazprom (Russia) Oil- 30 B, Gas 150 B
Qatar Oil- 30 B, Gas 150 B
ADNOC (UAE) Oil- 100 B, Gas 50 B
Iraq Oil- 120 B, G 10 B
KPC (Kuwait) Oil- 90 B, G 40 B
PDVSA (Venezuela) Oil- 80 B, G- 50 B
NNPC (Nigeria) Oil- 45 B, G- 40 B
NOC (Lybia) Oil- 50 B, Gas 15 B
Sonotrach (Algeria) Oil- 20 B, Gas- 30 B
Rosnof (Russia) Oil- 20 B, Gas 25 B
Petronas (Malaysia) Oil- 10 B, Gas 20 B
EXXON MOBIL Oil- 20 B, Gas 15 B (Exxon says 22.7 B Oil)
Petrochina (China) Oil- 20 B, Gas 10 B

Exxon Mobil is in 14th place- their reserves are tiny compared to the reserves controlled by state owned companies- some 90%- and NO WAY can the American or European majors buy those reserves below market.

BP has about the same amount of reserves as Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and Chevron somewhat less.

Note- I think the Iran data are inflated, esp. the gas estimate.

Canada, the No. 1 source for U. S. oil, does not appear since the oil sands are mined, and liquid reserves are small.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/OilChart9.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 01:35 AM

Q,

Exxon produces millions of barrels a year from Hibernia, off Newfoundland. They buy that well below market. The US almost went to war with Venezuela over Chavez charging them market rates. That's two examples I know about. If you think that they are making that kind of money buying and refining you are dreaming.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 01:39 AM

Even in your own statistics you are showing Exxon Mobil, a private company, owning more reserves than most countries. How do you think that came about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 11:42 AM

WOO WHHOOO lets get us some of that windfall profit money.

After we collect the windfall profit tax from the Oil companies to help the consumer, we will already be driving flying saucers powered by sigularity gravity engines and won't be using money anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Eb
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 12:13 PM

Taxes Paid by Exxon           (millions of dollars)

Income taxes
2007 $29,864                           
2006 $27,902                           
2005 $23,302

Sales-based taxes                            
2007 $31,728                                    
2006 $30,381                                    
2005 $30,742

All other taxes and duties                            
2007 $44,091                                    
2006 $42,393                                    
2005 $44,571

Total                   
2007 $105,683                           
2006 $100,676                           
2005 $98,615

Effective income tax rate                            
2007 44        %                           
2006 43%                           
2005 41%


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Eb
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM

Shouldn't we be glad that the two largest companies in the world are based here in the US?

Would it be better to run them offshore with higher taxes?

What happens when Anheuser Busch is bought by InBev?
    Please remember to use one consistent name when you post. If you post under a variety of names, you risk having all your posts deleted.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 02:41 PM

Where are you getting this stuff? Exxon.apologists.com? I simply don't believe them without a source.

The sales taxes and other taxes aren't taxes on Exxon, they are taxes paid on the importation and sale of petroleum products. I can't speak for the "effective income tax rate" because you haven't shown where you got the ridiculous figure of 44% but it sure seems like a lie. The maximum corporate tax rate is only 35% and Exxon has some pretty good lawyers. I've got to tell you. If I was a shareholder and I saw that. I'd be after the CEO and CFO's heads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 03:07 PM

Right now I believe EB over JTS, who is clearly pulling numbers out of you-nowhere. Get off your backside and come up with some real numbers rather than just impugn EB... The internet's full of good stuff, get your girlfriend to help you out.

Back around '99 oil was $9 a barrel out of Alaska and some pundits were predicting this would go on for years. This doesn not mean the oil companies were making a profit at those rates. In order to maintain infrastructure, market share, and payrolls they had to keep goin'. And nobody gave a tinker's cuss about it, so from the point of view of the oil companies, why should they care about the bleating at the pumps as gen X'ers fill up their Rav4s for that solo ride to the espresso bar?

Meanwhile, one of the things that happens when oil is down, which it has been recently, is that a lot of support/ remedial work does not get done at the major industrial sites required for the movement and refining of the crude. BP's site down in Texas was so poorly maintained they had a major disaster and killed 15 on-site workers and injured 500.

Refineries are notoriously tight because they don't own the oil, they buy it, process it, and market the products. They are run with skinny margins.

There is a lot of catch-up and environmentally mandated work that's been going on now that some sectors of the oil bidness are flush. They are notoriously tight with a dollar and this work wouldn't get done without the recent surge in price.

Meanwhile, the high prices in the States are getting several important things done at once:

1) Making Americans familiar with what Europeans have been going through for years.
2) Encouraging some seldom seen restraint on the part of the gas burning public.
3) Shifting economic investment to alternative fuels/ energy development.
4) Giving us a vital warning as to what's ahead. There is still a huge amount of petrochemical reserve in the world, but it's a finite resource, and this is a warning (actually so far it is a minor warning).
5) Exxon needs to have some of the ready at hand to finally pay out Alaskans for their losses during the Exxon Valdez spill.

Oh, and while Exxon was reaping in the billions, General Motors was
losing them, on account of pretty horrible management choices over what to develop and produce, and a lot of arm waving about efficiency and the hydrogen economy which they've been doing to assure us they are ready for the future. I got a look at the BMW museum in Munich back in the 80's and they were talking about efficiency and recycling even then.

So this price hike is highly valuable for separating the BS from the fax.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 03:13 PM

Hibernia ownership:
Exxon Mobil Canada (Imperial)- 33.125%
Chevron Canada Resources- 26.875%
PetroCanada- 20%
Canada Hibernia- 8.5%
Murphy- 6.5%
StatoilHydro- 5%

Production allowed- 220,000KPD
Est. total reserves 1 billion bbls. (Tiny, compared with fields elsewhere. Not certain where the economic cutoff is here).

Cost of development $5.8 billion. The Canadian government provided $2.6 billion in loans and loan guarantees, which debt has been paid back.
Money distribution, Total as of 2006 year end-
Newfoundland- $1.2 billion
Oil companies consortium- $8.8 billion
Canada government- $4.8 billion

Info sources-
Canadian Press, Nov. 15, 2007, www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2007/11/15/hibernia-decade.html

About Hibernia, www.hibernia.ca/html/about-hibernia/index.html

Reuters, Jan. 17, 2007- Newfoundland Rejects Hibernia oil field expansion. (In essence, they want a bigger cut).
-------------------------
There continues to be failure to recognize the importance of scale.
Exxon Mobil, in % profit, taxes, etc., is no different from the small company worth only a few million. The business is subject to wide fluctuations in profit, exploration and infrastructure costs, and the whims of governments that control reserves in their jurisdiction.
Cheap politicians and ignorant journalists point to large size as a reason to denigrate and attack, diverting attention from the true causes of the public's misery.
---------------------------------------------

Chevron, No. 2 oil company in the U. S., has just reported good quarterly profits, but there are danger signals- they posted a loss on refining due to high costs of crude.
Large integrated oil companies with refining and product a large part of their business could be down-rated in the stock market if their profits fall further. No longer a 'hold,' but a 'sell.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 03:34 PM

Robomatic,

My wife has told me that you work for the oil industry. You are obviously a paragon of objectivity on this matter.

That makes me wonder, are you EB? Posting Oil industry slanted stats under a pseudonym then rushing in to defend your BS when Joe outed you?

EB/Robomatic if you want credibility, you can tell us the source of those stats and we can look them up ourselves. Otherwise we shall have to ASSume the source you pulled them from.
On the other hand the only "number" that I used was the corporate tax rate. If you want to go look it up and prove me wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 03:39 PM

Thanks Q,

You just proved that Exxon was not paying market rates for Hibernia crude.

>>Reuters, Jan. 17, 2007- Newfoundland Rejects Hibernia oil field expansion. (In essence, they want a bigger cut).<<

When I was studying business in Newfoundland in the early 80's the projected break even price for Hibernia crude was about $12 per barrel. At ten times that amount Exxon is making a killing on Newfoundland oil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 03:49 PM

The 44% came from http://www.secinfo.com/d14D5a.t18Pq.htm
The gross, net and profit margins came from Forbes.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 03:54 PM

JTS
Please give your girlfriend/wife my regards.

Your statement is not accurate. i.e. it's flat wrong.

Meanwhile, you have adapted her tactic of ad hominem attack.

All you really have to do is read my previous contribution and speak to it. The facts in it are accurate, and I stand behind the logic and sense of it.

You don't even have to get off your backside.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 04:06 PM

If someone is trolling to get me to post on this subject, I'm afraid he/she is going to be disappointed. I'm not particularly interested in posting anything on this subject at this time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 04:14 PM

>>>Subject: RE: BS: Exxon Mobil Corp. Record profits
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 03:49 PM

The 44% came from http://www.secinfo.com/d14D5a.t18Pq.htm
The gross, net and profit margins came from Forbes.com<<

"44%"
and "43%" does not occur anywhere on that page.


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