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Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...

Jack Blandiver 04 Jul 08 - 12:39 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Jul 08 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,JM 03 Jul 08 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,I Was Lord Batman's Kitchener 03 Jul 08 - 11:15 AM
George Papavgeris 03 Jul 08 - 10:18 AM
Jack Blandiver 03 Jul 08 - 10:14 AM
theleveller 03 Jul 08 - 09:57 AM
George Papavgeris 03 Jul 08 - 09:35 AM
Jack Blandiver 03 Jul 08 - 07:57 AM
theleveller 03 Jul 08 - 07:34 AM
Banjiman 03 Jul 08 - 07:23 AM
theleveller 03 Jul 08 - 06:03 AM
Jack Blandiver 03 Jul 08 - 04:26 AM
Muswell Hillbilly 02 Jul 08 - 12:40 PM
irishenglish 02 Jul 08 - 12:00 PM
Muswell Hillbilly 02 Jul 08 - 11:46 AM
irishenglish 01 Jul 08 - 01:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Jul 08 - 12:37 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 01 Jul 08 - 12:35 PM
Stu 01 Jul 08 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Neil D 01 Jul 08 - 12:26 PM
irishenglish 01 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM
Chris Green 01 Jul 08 - 10:52 AM
GUEST,Joe 01 Jul 08 - 10:26 AM
theleveller 01 Jul 08 - 10:18 AM
Chris Green 01 Jul 08 - 10:14 AM
Stu 01 Jul 08 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,Joe 01 Jul 08 - 09:59 AM
Banjiman 01 Jul 08 - 09:44 AM
George Papavgeris 01 Jul 08 - 09:35 AM
George Papavgeris 01 Jul 08 - 09:32 AM
GUEST,Joe 01 Jul 08 - 09:25 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 01 Jul 08 - 08:39 AM
George Papavgeris 01 Jul 08 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,Joe 01 Jul 08 - 08:17 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 01 Jul 08 - 07:44 AM
George Papavgeris 01 Jul 08 - 07:12 AM
Ruth Archer 01 Jul 08 - 06:44 AM
George Papavgeris 01 Jul 08 - 06:35 AM
Stu 01 Jul 08 - 06:25 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 01 Jul 08 - 06:15 AM
George Papavgeris 01 Jul 08 - 06:06 AM
theleveller 01 Jul 08 - 06:04 AM
GUEST,Joe 01 Jul 08 - 05:58 AM
Ruth Archer 01 Jul 08 - 05:28 AM
Banjiman 01 Jul 08 - 05:27 AM
theleveller 01 Jul 08 - 05:17 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 01 Jul 08 - 04:08 AM
mandotim 01 Jul 08 - 03:57 AM
GUEST,aeola 30 Jun 08 - 04:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 12:39 PM

Has not got what?


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 12:38 PM

The whiskery one has not got it.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 12:26 PM

Hey David! I've just had a great idea! Why don't you ring up Michael Eavis and offer yourself as an act for next year? I'm sure he'd love to have you and your chants on one of the stages.

I can give you his contact details if you'd like.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,I Was Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 11:15 AM

This WAV person, thoroughly bad lot, sir, thoroughly bad lot, would have had him horse-whipped in my day, horsewhipped I say.
Curried eggs on the menu at the club today. Then a round of golf with the chaps. pip, pip.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:18 AM

IB, agreed about the "ironic satire on other more mainstream black-faced acts that were considered acceptable at the time". And you are right, it WAS done with affection.

"And did those feet in ancient times..."


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:14 AM

Bearer Rangi Ram, as played by Indian born English actor Michael Bates of course, also to be found as Blamire in the seminal series of Last of the Summer Wine, and he's in The Stone Tape & A Clockwork Orange too if I remember rightly. The characterisation was done with affection, I believe, rather than simply blacking up to reinforce racial stereotypes, though this is supposedly one of the reasons IAHHM hasn't been accorded the classic status enjoyed by other Croft & Perry period pieces.

Curiously, just this morning I came across this film of a blacked-up Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band (all except Neil Innes!) performing on British TV, Do Not Adjust Your Set, circa 1969 (introduced by a young David Jason putting on an American accent a la Hughie Greene).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLdA4zKp-00

Methinks, perhaps naively, or rather optimistically, that this is a deeply ironic satire on other more mainstream black-faced acts that were considered acceptable at the time; a grotesquery (certainly on Vivian's part) akin to Vic Reeves & Bob Mortimer doing their Otis & Marvin routine some years later, though by the second series of The Smell... they'd stopped blacking up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi60CCM9jZU

Anyway, a couple of crucial pieces of England's Own Good Culture to assist WAV with his attempts at repatriation!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:57 AM

Insane Beard, did you read past the first line of the post of mine you're quoting from? If not, please do and you'll see what I'm talking about.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:35 AM

Remember Bearer Rangi Ram (It Ain't Half Hot, Mum)? He was proud too. And the joke might have been on him then, but today the joke would be on his detractors.

OK, I'm as proud of Bearer Rangi Ram, to be part of a community that has many good characteristics, and some less good also. I am Anglisised, not English of course. This is nothing to do with nationhood, but with general culture (adoptive, in my case). And this culture owes some things to Bearer Rangi Ram too, because he added to it, as did everyone who has ever come to live on this island from somewhere else.

All together now, tug on the flyscreen rope and sing "Land of hope and glory"!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:57 AM

So there's irony in WAVs dystopian vision of England? And this from the man who feels his works are somehow good way forward for humanity. This is surely sinister enough, the fact that he so obviously believes in his masterplan for the salvation of humanity. Lord save us!

Otherwise, I'm as proud of my Englishness as the next Englishman, or woman; an all-inclusive and ever evolving Englishness - immigration, ethnic diversity, bleeding borders, Britishness, American influences and all; an Englishness whose musical triumphs are to be found in anything but fecking folk music, at least not the sort of folky folk music whose entire existence is due to the cozy dreams of the wishful few. Real Englishness (and real folk music, one hopes!) is consistent to the cultural & human continuities of the last 10,000 years (at least); forever looking forwards, it does not look back because it doesn't have to; it is secure enough in simply being, and in so being it is forever becoming as history takes its inevitable course.

At least until WAV comes along to show us the error of our ways, and return us to our own good English culture, green and godly gardening and all...


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:34 AM

Absolutely, Paul! And maybe that's why the folk scene is so boyant and exciting around your neck of the woods (can't believe how many great singer/songwriters there are that I've missed for so long).


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Banjiman
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:23 AM

Pete,

I did, see post somewhere above.

Cheers

Paul


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:03 AM

Perhaps I'm being naive here, but just why is what WAV does so sinister? My impression is that it's all very tongue-in-cheek. Of course it's risible. Isn't it meant to be so? I mean the idea that Glastonbury should become an English Folk Festival...come on! But it does get us thinking and talking about it.

Maybe it's that we seem to be embarrassed about parading our Englishness, these days, and have surrendered this line to the misplaced jingoism of the fascist right-wing and football supporters.

Make no mistake, I don't support the 'my coutry right or wrong' way of thinking and I'm a staunch republican. But I do love the diversity, the eccentricity and the wonderful anachronisms that make up Englishness. So, instead of just slagging off WAV, if we don't agree with what he's saying, how about being positive and putting forward our own views of what we enjoy about England?

To quote Mr Knightley 'It's my flag, too, and I want it back!'


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:26 AM

What I admire about WAV is his passionate defence of Englishness

Apologies for the belated entry on this one, we've been off-line for a fortnight or so, with limited internet access. Note the new name; same identity however...

Anyhoo. The Englishness in question here is a bogus conceptualisation based on an entirely alien perception of same. How can such risible clichés to be construed as a passionate defence of Englishness? On the contrary, I'd say they amounted to a passionate attack on the very nature of Englishness by someone whose agenda is quite possibly as (purposefully) sinister as it is (ostensibly) naive.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:40 PM

That well-known ukelele virtuoso extraordiaire, Peter Sellers (New York Girls, Commoners Crown - Steeleye Span)as well.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:00 PM

The Kinks and Fairport Convention. Not too shabby Muswell Hill!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 11:46 AM

Muswell Hill Rools OK!!!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 01:05 PM

Thank you for the early birthday best wishes WAV. 7/11-was always an easy one to remind people of here in the States for obvious reasons!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 12:37 PM

Glastonbury is just one festival.

No it isn't. It's lots of festivals happening alongside each other and interacting with each other.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 12:35 PM

I read every word, Robert (even though I just had dinner!), and have made some changes to my site, via doing so. And I do hope you enjoy yours, and the rest of the night, with your friends, on your 40th birhtday. A tad early, but (in G)...

DDEDGF#
DDEDAG
DDdBGF#E
ccBGAG


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 12:32 PM

Excellent post Robert.

By WAV's own admission he's only been into folk music for a couple of years, barely time to orient yourself let alone actually understand it; this is made all the more difficult by the fact so much folk is played out of it's original context (not that this matters in many ways, as we're not talking about interpreting pre-raphaelite paintings here).

I've never heard WAV mention Harry Cox, Fred Jordan or any of the other source singers you would think he would be interested in given his views on the subject. If I was interesting in unaccompanied singing I would be looking all over the Isles for inspiration because like it or not none of this stuff has developed in isolation (although I think you could argue some of the singing on the Atlantic coasts of the Isles represent a separate tradition entirely).

All the traditions of the home countries need protecting - English more than most (apart from Wales) as it has long been overshadowed by it's more vital neighbours although I think that is changing; despite the often outspoken and iconoclastic nature of much folk music as a general rule I think folkies are more open to ideas and innovation than they are given credit for, and can mend fences via music whilst others with less insight still hold on to outdated and retrogressive attitudes.

It's one of the reasons why I love folk music.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 12:26 PM

If the river rues its parts being kissed by said trees,
It has it mild when compared with yon shrubberies.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM

Sorry for the non-poetic post here, but that is not my strong suit. WAV, I'm going to let you in on a little secret here about my username, because in a general sense, it speaks to some of the notions that you have. Now, on the one hand, its a pronouncement of two passions of mine-it could have been just as easily irishenglishamerica, as I am american. On the other, it is just a quick name I made up on the spot for mudcat use. Lets go with the more noble one for now though, the fact that it is two passions.

My mother was born and raised in Donegal, before coming to the States, then marrying my father who has obvious Irish roots, although we are not really sure on the particulars of his family (no one on his side seemed to really care, and as such, we don't know what part of Ireland his side is from. I prefer to keep a little privacy on here, so if you want to know my last name, PM me!). In any case, I had an awareness in me of all things Irish-literature, movies, the landscape,the beer, and of course the music.
My first exposure was probably more through my fathers Clancy Brothers albums (which I didn't like at the time-but then again neither did the 10 year old or so kid much like Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash, and all the other things my father inflicted upon me which I now love!).

Ironically though, it was English music that got me more deeply interested in Irish culture. November, 1987, a sophomore at college in Worcester, Massachusetts. My friend drags me to a Jethro Tull concert. It just so happened we had great seats in a large arena, about 15 rows back, center stage. Opening band is some band called Fairport Convention. Oh look, the guy who plays bass for Tull is in this band too, whats it all about? So on Fairport comes, with electric violin, mandolin,etc, playing a music that sounded vaguely like the Clancy Brothers, but rocked up a bit. I was spellbound. Immediately I started, in those carefree, pre-internet get anything you want with a click days, to seek out this band. It progressed from their own convoluted history, into much more. Who's this guy Martin Carthy that Swarb used to play with? Who's this Cecil Sharp guy that Ashley Hutchings is always on about? And so on, and so on.
I always was an anglophile, even before I knew the term, but once I read Steinbeck's The Moon Is Down, which had a character of a German soldier who was obsessed with all things English, I knew I was not alone!

As I began immersing myself in English music, I realized somehow that I was neglecting my Irish heritage. By this point, I was deeply into many other types of music as well, blues, world, trying to stay afloat in a sea of grunge. I started reading more Irish literature, even poetry, catching up on Irish films, etc. At some point, it may have been on vacation in Ireland, I realized that after many years, my irishophile, if I may create that word, was catching up. For years I had been fighting this internal thing, and sometimes an external thing with people that I was some type of traitor. Some of the less informed people would say to me, how can you like this English folk music after what they did to us (meaning Irish). I really would not know what to say most of the time, because let's face it, the whole Irish/English political thing is still somewhat troublesome. One time though, at a bar, I remember having this discussion with some half hearted Irish-American (the kind who parties on St. Paddies's and who barely knows anything about the place). Instead of getting mad, I switched gears, and asked him something like, did you hear the new Coldplay album? "Yes, he said, it's good." My answer was, oh, so its ok to like a rock band from England, because its rock music, but its not ok to like traditional music, or things of that nature? He got my point.

My point of writing all of this was that WAV, its ok to feel strongly about aspects of your English culture. I could continue with this on my love for many aspects of American culture. Let's just keep that one simple by example-next week for my 40th birthday a bunch of us are getting together here in NY city, at a dive bar, to listen to the Neil Scott Johnson Band (great country and covers band), drinking pitchers of beer, on a hot NY night, with some baseball on the TV. Now that's America for me! Unlike you WAV, and unlike your convoluted poetry, my passions are not catchphrases. My passions come from thought, and a deep understanding, and from time. My English folk collection runs all the way from Seth Lakeman to Walter Pardon. In the first couple of years, I wouldn't have touched Walter Pardon with a 10ft bargepole, but I get it now, I appreciate it. The same with Irish music-give me Altan and Lasairfhiona and I'm on cloud 9. But it all progressed, which is what I showed through writing this. Your declarations of the direction you wish this music to go in are not commensurate with your understanding of the music. I have said it before, you disavow the words of musicians scholars and people like me, who truthfully WAV, have more understanding of the music. I have quoted you from Reg Hall, you had no comment. Professional musicians (yes thats right, professional English folk musicians) have come on here politely telling you that your notions are ill informed. Why won't you listen WAV? It boggles my mind why you aren't on here asking questions. Instead you continue with these ego boosting self promoting pronouncements. As I said to you before, learn to listen WAV. I did, and be it Irish, English, Scottish, American, Malian, or Uzbeki music, I learned how to listen, and my life is vastly different

Robert


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:52 AM

For too long round this thread I've hovered
I'm out of here - I can't be bovvered!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:26 AM

Duellingbozoukis, what is wrong?
Your comments are neither verse nor song
Prose, it is so overrated
Far too long, its dominated


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:18 AM

I'm not getting involved in this
Because I know you'll take the piss
It's true my verses never scan
Because I always try to get as much into the last line as I possibly can


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:14 AM

Stigweard - you're not Ian Dury returned from the dead are you? That sounded like three rather convincing reasons to be cheerful to me!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:11 AM

Lickey leaves around the wetty
meat balls on spaghetti
typing this on my Olivetti
makes me feel all fat and sweaty.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:59 AM

When I hear the morning wake up bell
I whisper to myself a soft 'oh hell'
I'd much rather be between bedsheets
than manipulating Excel spreadsheets

This organisation - this NHS thing
I find it all rather testing
For someone of such artistic leaning
The working life is so demeaning

...My poetry I must confess
I liken it with the best


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:44 AM

'ay up guest Joe, a verse from Yorkshire
With traditions preserved in The Northeast Quarter
To lick or be licked that is the question
Whichever way round it's an indecent suggestion


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:35 AM

If I go off at a tangent
I confess it is a ruse
to divert this conversation
from upset and confrontation
But a thought comes, much more urgent:
GUEST, Joe, would you be my muse?


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:32 AM

...or a limey gin & tonic
that would touch every harmonic
and cause music polyphonic
till I flop all catatonic!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:25 AM

Oh for a beer in this sun so shiny
But I think my boss would shout 'cor blimey!'


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:39 AM

...now you two have gone all "direct"!


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:31 AM

Oh! for a warmer climb
than Everest
Olympus is too chilly.
The Alps are far too hilly.
The Chilterns are, I find,
by far the best.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:17 AM

Not sure but an ice cream would be nice, what with all this hot weather we aren't used to!

The Sun is shining
The weather is fine
It reminds me of
A warmer clime


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 07:44 AM

A NEW criticism! - usually it's lack of imagination.
As I said in the Blurb, most of my collection
is deliberately "direct", but, in Tees to Tyne, I did try some imagery - such as the leaves of river-side trees, with dangling branches, "licking" the water...can anyone imagine that?


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 07:12 AM

C !!

slow day at work today.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:44 AM

"I'm certainly not advocating any form of exclusivity or 'ethnic cleansing', just the preservation of local distinctiveness in a sea of uniformity! Of course it's a personal choice - I want to ensure that we still have the opportunity to make it."

Indeed. It's one of the things I love about England - its regional variety and distinctiveness.


WAVey Davey, you have suggested so many things that ought to bew done to promote English culture, from broadcasting to festival management. When i speak of getting off your arse and doing something, it is this to which I refer - not subjecting the already sorely put-upon British public to another masturbatory "performance" of your risible "life's work".


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:35 AM

As in "the ice lolly licked my tongue", you mean, stig? An interesting concept, though, it challenges conventional thinking.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:25 AM

"Rivers in parts licked by trees,"

Effing genuis.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:15 AM

Ruth: I, along with the members of Brother Crow, etc., were "off our arses" and PARTICIPATING at the Durham Traditional Music Festival, just this weekend, e.g. And, whilst there, I sung this (once in the comp's and once at the singaround, with tenor-recorder/English flute intro.) about what is now my local area of England:

Poem cum Song 162 of 230, walkaboutsverse.741.com: TEES TO TYNE: FIRST IMPRESSIONS - SUMMER 2001

Where traditions are not so rare;
    Sea, country and works scent the air;
A multitude of monuments,
    Planted tubs and patterned pavements.

The longish pedestrian malls;
    The remnants of defensive walls;
"Broken-roofed buildings" are a gauge
    Of the respect for heritage.

Wheat, rape and pines in the fields;
    Estuaries guarded by shields;
Long sandy beaches and wide scenes;
    Romantic-ruin go-betweens.

Rivers in parts licked by trees,
    Or fringed by boat clubs, wharfs, gantries,
And crossed by practical delights -
    Varied spans, forming pleasing sights.

Fine churches headed at Durham;
    Football kits ad infinitum;
Kept castles - one for study;
    Masonry behind masonry.

And, with moulding-works out that way,
It's somewhere for a longer stay..?

(PS: I also recently performed it, on a Northern Lines poetry event, at Newcastle's Lit. and Phil. Library.)


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:06 AM

Agreed, Joe, and that point has indeed been made time and again on related threads. Culture is like flavour, I think - it pertains to uindividual, regional customs and traditions, just as flavour is linked to individual food items. To talk about "English culture" is like trying to describe the taste of the contents of a shopping trolley.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:04 AM

Hi Paul. Yes, I realise Wendy's proud of her Scottishness but her songs have a real 'sense of place' in North Yorkshire. This, to my mind, demonstrates the progressive and immediate nature of folk music as opposed (as you so rightly say) to preserving it in aspic.

Look forward to seeing you at Pickering - should be great.

Ruth, as I said, it's the willingness to celebrate Englishness that so many people (not you) seem to find embarrassing. I'm certainly not advocating any form of exclusivity or 'ethnic cleansing', just the preservation of local distinctiveness in a sea of uniformity! Of course it's a personal choice - I want to ensure that we still have the opportunity to make it.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:58 AM

What should be celebrated is nothing that is defined by the 'English' label. To state the obvious, songs about Yorkshire are songs about Yorkshire! They are part of Yorkshire's heritage, not the nation's. Customs and traditions vary throughout England as they do throughout the world.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:28 AM

leveller, the problem is that most here would not dispute this. Many of us think that English culture should be better represented (some of us have even got off our arses and done something about it, rather than engaging in the endless internet onanism favoured by WAVey Davey).

The only thing most people object to, if I'm not misrepresenting the numerous views expressed over countless threads, is WAVey Davey's insistence on Englishness TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL ELSE. Telling people how they SHOULD be singing, playing, or "practising" their culture, as if this isn't a very personal choice. It's the persistent attempt to sanitise Englishness of all "foreignness" (as if this were even possible) and to preserve it as something fixed and unchanging, which many have challenged. And many of us are also disturbed and outraged by the logical end result of this sort of attempt at cultural cleansing.

There are positive ways of celebrating and promoting Englishness. WAVey Davey's way ain't even close.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:27 AM

Mr Leveller,

I think I agree with some of what you are saying but my version of "Englishness" is more Imagined Village than Cecil Sharp.... i.e inclusive and ever evolving rather than unwelcoming and preserved in aspic. (my arse will probably be kicked for that as well!)

Obviously I agree with your music choices (though remember Wendy Arrowsmith might be adopted Yorkshire but she is very Scottish and proud of it by birth!). All of the artists you mention do evoke very strong images of different aspects and areas of North Yorks and the North East.

Never mind Glastonbury, see you at Pickering.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:17 AM

I'm going to expose my arse for a kicking here and leap to WAV's defence. It's hard not to sound condescending and supercilious, which I don't mean to be (on this occasion), so please take these comments in that spirit.

What I admire about WAV is his passionate defence of Englishness, which is now deeply unfashionable but which I believe should be celebrated more. Forget about pride and misplaced jingoism, but it would be nice to see more people getting pleasure from being English, in the same way that the Scots, Irish and Welsh are actually pleased to belong to those nations. We should enjoy being English and celebrate the huge diversity that makes up England.

To understand what I'm talking about, visit www.england-in-particular.info or, better still, buy the book. England In Particular describes itself as 'a celebration of the commonplace, the local, the vernacular and the distinctive' (and, I would add, the eccentric) and is the culmination of 20 years' work by Angela King and Sue Clifford who formed Common Ground together with my old friend, the late Roger Deakin (who I know would not mind my describing as a true eccentric in the best English tradition).

Personally, I love listening to songs that people have written about the localities they love. To see what I mean, listen to the songs of Yorkshire and the North East by Brother Crow, Wendy Arrowsmith, Richard Grainger and, of course, Mike Waterson. These are wonderful, stirring songs that are preserving the local heritage and keeping folk music alive, vibrant, current and a real, living entity. To hear them sends a tingle down the spine.

I'm not going to comment on the quality of WAV's verse (but just remember that MacGonagal's work is still being read), but I do respect his passion, if not always the way he puts it across.

Perhaps more of us should be celebrating our own bit of England and taking positive action to resist the ever-increasing pressure to change, to conform to a stereotype, to unify, to depersonalise and to centralise. Diversity is the life-blood that keeps alive the true character of England. Don't let it be swamped in a sea of motorways, McDonalds, mundanity and municipal short-sightedness.

Home Rule For Yorkshire!: )


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:08 AM

Thanks, Mandotim - so, as above, I may never be the Glastonbury bard, nor an Honorary Doctor of English Literature at Oxford Uni., then!...they're nearly as bad as knighthoods, anyway.
And, sorry, I'm still not clear on what music you heard on that street.


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: mandotim
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 03:57 AM

WAV; on 30th June at 1.15pm I asked you a question about music, specifically about whether you regard the music I heard in the city the other night as English Folk music. I was trying to understand your definition of said music, but you have not replied. Why is this, as you seem to delight in replying to most questions? Are you perhaps making some assumptions about the musicians?

By the way, I stand by my comments about your poetry. I showed some examples to a friend; she's an Emeritus Professor of English Literature at Oxford. She gave a two word opinion; 'MacGonagall lives!'.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,aeola
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:26 PM

Well, theleveller, I maybe confusing inflict with afflict, but your right Mudcats must keep going on and on & on.....


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