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Folk Proms

Surreysinger 26 Jul 08 - 06:21 PM
Big Al Whittle 26 Jul 08 - 05:33 PM
Houston_Diamond 26 Jul 08 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,Joe G 23 Jul 08 - 06:43 PM
goatfell 23 Jul 08 - 03:00 PM
goatfell 23 Jul 08 - 02:59 PM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 06:18 PM
Houston_Diamond 22 Jul 08 - 04:52 PM
Bonzo3legs 22 Jul 08 - 04:29 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jul 08 - 03:32 PM
The Borchester Echo 22 Jul 08 - 03:23 PM
Big Al Whittle 22 Jul 08 - 01:14 PM
GUEST 22 Jul 08 - 11:19 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 11:13 AM
goatfell 22 Jul 08 - 10:55 AM
greg stephens 22 Jul 08 - 10:51 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 10:27 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 10:24 AM
Ruth Archer 22 Jul 08 - 09:48 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 09:33 AM
The Borchester Echo 22 Jul 08 - 09:10 AM
Houston_Diamond 22 Jul 08 - 08:59 AM
The Borchester Echo 22 Jul 08 - 08:37 AM
Jim Moray 22 Jul 08 - 08:06 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 07:54 AM
The Borchester Echo 22 Jul 08 - 07:51 AM
greg stephens 22 Jul 08 - 07:31 AM
Ruth Archer 22 Jul 08 - 07:31 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,Gadaffi 22 Jul 08 - 06:56 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 06:52 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 06:50 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 06:46 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 06:46 AM
greg stephens 22 Jul 08 - 06:44 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 06:31 AM
greg stephens 22 Jul 08 - 06:27 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 06:25 AM
greg stephens 22 Jul 08 - 06:13 AM
GUEST,Gadaffi 22 Jul 08 - 06:05 AM
Surreysinger 22 Jul 08 - 06:05 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 05:56 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 22 Jul 08 - 05:54 AM
Big Al Whittle 22 Jul 08 - 05:37 AM
Richard Bridge 22 Jul 08 - 05:33 AM
Ruth Archer 22 Jul 08 - 05:25 AM
Big Al Whittle 22 Jul 08 - 05:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 06:21 PM

> folk was really designed for public houses and family homes.)

Designer folk ? Now there's an idea..... LOL
BTW ... don't forget the workplace as well (not to mention the non-family homes)


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 05:33 PM

I saw a folk festival in Keele in the mid 70's. I remember seeing Bill Caddick, Martn Wyndham Read, June Tabor and Bernard Wrigley. I'm sure it was after the date you mention as moving to Loughborough.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 05:25 PM

"As I recall they had great hopes for the mushrooms ... but at the end of the day they didn't do the job as well as had been expected ,and the acoustics were still crap after all that work and effort"

I was in the minus years when the fiberglass mushrooms were added but with the knowledge of singing in lots of places where I want to hear the reverberation of my voice I could imagine that without them the resound would be horrendous.

The problem is that the hall is an oval shaped building with 2 bowls facing each other. The sound energy is bound to reflect and hit itself several times creating unwanted effects. Cast iron is not an acoustically sympathetic material as anyone with a bath would tell you, that said if the note is sympathetic to the cast iron shape it resonates beautifully (which isn't useful with lots of notes!)

I don't think volume is too much of an issue... if you were in the RAH on the Sunday afternoon or if you check out the recording you can hear a baby make a noise, surely a folk singer can sing higher than a baby?

That's enough of me chattin sh*te lol...

Am fascinated to find out what solution they are bound to come up with... it'll probably be a combination of sound deadening material and sound canceling technology combined with amplification (not very folkie but then the RAH wasn't designed for folk and folk was really designed for public houses and family homes.)

:D


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 06:43 PM

People may be interested to know that the discussion re this on the R3 Performance message board has become a lot more mature and interesting over the last few days. Some real food for thought there I think

Joe G


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: goatfell
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 03:00 PM

I totally agree with Joe Offer, either give yourself a name or sod off


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: goatfell
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 02:59 PM

I hate these 'GUEST' because I think that they are just cowards that don't have the nerve or the guts to give themselves a name, at lest when I put a post here you can what my mudcat name is.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:18 PM

Hi Houston

"The only thing is I am sure the acoustics were totally different in the hall pre-amplification"

I think that's more or less what I said, wasn't it ?? As I recall they had great hopes for the mushrooms ... but at the end of the day they didn't do the job as well as had been expected ,and the acoustics were still crap after all that work and effort (all that said before having a chance to check out the research paper for interest purposes.)


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 04:52 PM

With an apology for eavesdropping Ruth I thought Jim was gonna buy some equations... I think it were my dad they would have to have a large number of polynomials extremely quadratic and set as a simultanious problem where you have to find the x and y values via finding the values from the rest of the alphabet!!! You can tell how much I love my dad ;) lol

Am still reading the programme from Sunday :)

Surrey Singer, I liked your comments about the RAH. The only thing is I am sure the acoustics were totally different in the hall pre-amplification. The odd shaped upside down mushrooms were put in to deaden the reverberation from the pretty corregated ceiling in 1969 according to wikipedia, I love the addage in there that says "It used to be said that the hall was the only place where a British composer could be sure of hearing his work twice.". I couldn't imagine the resound in the original hall since chairs and other materials have been changed and added since.

Royal Albert Hall - Wikipedia
PDF research paper into the acoustics of RAH before and after restoration

I am sure there was a documentary of the analysis of the acoustics of the RAH but I can't seem to find it... I know quite a few great folk artist that could perform there without amplification :D


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 04:29 PM

Let's see, prom is probably short for promenade which means on your 2 feet, which some folks indeed were, so that surely meets all necessary criteria. On yer bike classic snobs!


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 03:32 PM

Robin Denselow actually gave a pretty positive review of the day as a whole. He was absolutely right about the evening concert. There was a slight feeling of failure of imagination about it, in spite of the good things therein. Four stars overall ain't bad from The Guardian. We don't need sycophants, do we.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 03:23 PM

Back in the late 1960s in the year the Keele Festival moved to Loughborough, the EFDSS held a "town" ceilidh, away from the "gown" campus in a bid to involve the good burghers of Loughborough. Not many came and it was a bit of a disaster. The Spinners (for they were the interval spot) had nevertheless an uproarious time getting pissed with yours truly and making jokes on the lines of "why do the EFDSS always book us, don't they know any other bands?" They were well aware of the rest of what we might (if we must) call the "scene" resenting how they ALWAYS but ALWAYS got this sort of gig (and guess who the ceilidh band was? Yes, that's right, the Yetties. Obviously).

Both bands were pragmatic. A gig's a gig. Nice chaps, scratching a living. Things haven't changed much except that the living is harder and the musicianship infinitely better.

On the subject of singing along with Martin Simpson, I've heard him drowned out by a wall of sound during Sammy's Bar. Not nice. Not that I'm keen on the song particularly, but if I go to listen to Martin Simpson, that's who I want to hear.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 01:14 PM

You may have found all those groups boring - although they contained very fine musicians, singers and songwriters.

However none of them needed an arts council grant to play a folk festival, none of them had much trouble filling any concert hall in the country and the folk scene in those days didn't have that lingering smell of of a 'well in' coterie continually rubbishing everyone else and denying access to the media to everyone else.

Martin Simpson and Bellowhead don't need you to abuse other and earlier artists. i don't imagine they would appreciate it. And coming so soon after Cliff Hall's death - well we can do without it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 11:19 AM

Some of us find the Dubliners, the Corries and definitely the Spinners to be exceptionally boring, so much so that I'd rather listen to Bellowhead, and I'd much rather listen to Home Service than them. martin Simpson is a guitarist's performer, and we therefore take preference.
    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 11:13 AM

Goatfell,you seem to be talking to yourself ... everyone else has moved on well away from there, and you have already given your opinion, which you are of course entitled to. There is little point in continually harping on about the fact that you like chorus songs ... it's not going to change the content of the programme which is now two days ago !!!


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: goatfell
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:55 AM

Aye he might be a barrel of laughs, but on the night I saw him he wasn't well for me funny, I have been to better funerals that where much more lively than what I saw, and as I said no one has mentioned one song that you can sing along to that Martin Simpson does, why can't you answer that?

maybe he does sing along chorus stuff, don't get me wrong I like other types of folk music, but just because I said I thought that he was boring, that is what I saw, and you think that I'm a war criminal and have committed the crime of the century by saying Martin Simpson well what I saw was boring.

I like groups like The Dubliners, The Corries and the Spinners, these were groups and groups and singers like them that brought folk music to the masses.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:51 AM

Surreysinger: what I meant by the BBC/Folk Axis is that there is are certain types of artist who get heavily promoted by the BBC, win BBC Awards, get chosen for the prestige events etc, and that these are not the types of artists who have developed styles which could fit in to the totally acoustic concert I was suggesting. I have nothing against artists who depend on sound mixing for their acts, a lot of what I do myself is precisely that. But, as Ralphie said re my idea: wonderful(won't happen, of course).
This is the real world. The thing about my idea is, the usual suspects wouldn't make any money out of it. So, regretfully, it will not happen.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:27 AM

And I should have said, what is the BBC/Folk Axis ... are we going to war ??


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:24 AM

Hi Greg

Thanks for your further thoughts. The idea in theory sounds great, but in practice some of it I think would be a non-starter.

"absolutely definitely, solo unaccompanied singers and instrumentalists or small groups who are up to it.It's amazing what you can do with a quiet audience yopu know."

Firstly, get your quiet audience. From the experience of various theatre based promotions locally (in a small venue) a lot of people who come to concert based folk promotions tend to treat them as if they are at a folk club - ie leaping up mid song, trotting off to the bar, the loos,.. you name it, they'll go for it. A quiet audience is something you don't necessarily get.

" How do you think the Albert Hall worked in the first decades of its existence?"

I haven't checked it out, but I would have said it was designed for large orchestral concerts. Any singers working there would have received a classical training - ie would have been trained to produce their voices to be heard over a large concert orchestra. WHich means using a totally different type of voice from that which most (if not all) singers in our area would have. And even the classically trained singers would have had to work incredibly hard to be heard there, I reckon. It's also worth pointing out that the acoustic in the Hall has had quite a few modifications since those days, so is no longer to the original specs. The idea of using unaccompanied singers is great - however, I think its incredibly unlikely that anyone around these days could fill that space without some form of amplification.... it really is stunningly huge and stunningly high, and actually quite scarey to behold as a performer if the bums on seats are substantial. I performed to a virtually full Hall quite a few years ago, with my choir, as part of the semi-chorus, and had to launch into something with a handful of other singers. I can assure you that, even with the support of several other very competent and good classical singers, it was a very unnerving experience - quite a dead acoustic if I recall correctly (unlike the Festival Hall, which felt much more user friendly ... hey there's a thought... how about something at the South Bank Centre???) I've been to classical concerts at the RAH where the principal singer has been miked for that reason.

The whole idea is a great one - but the Albert Hall is not the space for it, I reckon.

"But, I don't believe the idea is really a goer in terms of the Folk Prom."
I fail to see why - after all we're just about to have the second Doctor Who prom ... although admittedly that's a goer for quite different reasons. The mix you suggest has got to be an interesting one - and probably visually a very stimulating one for TV purposes.

"There are vested interests who don't believe that this is the way for the BBC/Folk axis to move in."
That's an intriguing and provoking comment. Who are these vested interests ?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:48 AM

I did - which is why everything you were saying was positively uncanny! Especially the mention of Joseph Taylor holograms...

Jim, what are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be shopping for pipes and cardigans?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:41 AM

"And, no - no animals or sounding like Radiohead."
So there's till scope for that then?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:33 AM

Mr Moray
Great minds think in different ways!

Sorry to have pissed on your parade!
Didn't know that you had a project in tow...(Hal-An)
If I can be of any help. Just get in touch.
Would be delighted.


Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:10 AM

Robin Denselow in today's Grauniad takes an even more dismissive view than I do of the "stale but safe" concert format, especially with regard to the later Prom.
Yes, he's right but I was struggling to take the more conciliatory approach (that was HARD) of "you've got to start somewhere and this is the first step".


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 08:59 AM

Hey Doug, that sounds really good and am looking forward to see or hear the product now :D

I thought the RAH did a great job, it didn't sound too quiet or too loud in fact I was really impressed. It did kinda suit but tbh I would have been glad to hear all of it (including Monica Bacelli's rather interesting approach)

I loved Muzsikás, Bella Hardy, Folkestra and the orchestrated takes on a load of really familiar tunes.

But then I'm slightly mad and really enjoy hearing a load of drunk folk musicians at 2am performing in a session in a marquee in the middle of a field. Maybe a great setting for the next prom? lol

Maybe I'm easily please?!?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 08:37 AM

Just in case anyone thinks otherwise, that was a joke, Jim. The expanded project sounds fab.

I'm put in mind, however, of the aborted project to hold an "inside out" event with the emphasis on workshops, culminating in nightly concerts and ceilidhs. Others stepped in and when it very quickly emerged that what they wanted was a conventional "SoH/Lakeperson headline thing" where punters paid and watched and not a vestige of creative thought, I was out.

The way I see it, a "prom" sort of event is the way out of that stale way of thinking. And last weekend saw the progressive arm of the establishment getting behind it. Hurrah.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Jim Moray
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 08:06 AM

Um, sorry Ralph - I have already had a PRS foundation grant for exactly that (almost to the word)...

I have cleaned up the Joseph Taylor wax cylinders, manipulated them with Melodyne and orchestrated for a live orchestra. I'm pretty confident that I have the best sounding set of transfers of the recordings that exist at the moment to work from - its taken six months of work to get them to sound like that.

It was premiered last July at the RNCM in Manchester, but we are re-visiting it on a much larger scale (with films) next year. The plans are fairly far along, but if you want to get involved with the technical aspects then drop me a line.

And, no - no animals or sounding like Radiohead. The orchestration is more like Gavin Bryars work (listen to 'Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet' or 'The Sinking of the Titanic') crossed with English Acoustic Collective or Methera Quartet - type use of fragments of morris tunes etc. Its pretty minimal, with the voice being the main focus of the piece.

If anyone wants any more info then get in touch. I want to make an album of it first, but the aim is to do a short tour in Autumn 2009.

I'm paranoid that I'm being really predictable now..


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:54 AM

Hi Greg
Firstly Roger is Boss of Radio 3!
(And apparently danced at the late night dance last sunday...would have loved to have seen that...! You tube anybody?)
Seriously, he is a very open minded guy, bringing Kershaw to R3, commissioning the coverage of Womad, and even brought me a sausage sandwhich when I was opening up R3 one morning!
A thoroughly nice and interesting bloke, not elitist at all.
As for your concert ideas, wonderful...(Won't happen of course)
As an example, In aother life I was tangentially involved,with the Camden School Prom, organised (amongst others) By Sheena Masson (Stocai, Stomp), who's day job is Music co-ordinator in Camden and other places.
Every 2 years there is a Camden Folk Prom.

Can you imagine the whole of the Arena and the Loggia filled by thousands of kids (Parents shoved off up into the Gods!)
And you had the lot...Orchestras, Choirs, Bhangra, Soloists, Dancing.

(An aside...there are at least 50 different languages spoken in Camden)
Maybe thats an idea that we could put to Mr Wright?
The three Camden Proms that I have attended have been magical. Talk about cross cultural!!
And, It would make great TV. These kids really go for it..
Mmmmm Let me think about it
Interesting stuff though, and nobody's fighting...Hurrah!

Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:51 AM

DEFINITELY need Jim Moray on board!

Ha! Beat me to it! JM (if he gets a look in) would have animations of musicians dressed as furry animals and make it all sound like Radiohead.

The Joseph Taylor sampling is a bit old hat though as I can't count the number of times bits of Brigg Fair have shown up in all sorts of projects but what I rather liked was Billy Bragg's 50th birthday reminiscences at SBC where he had an old record player and plonked the needle down on ancient vinyl, sometimes at the right track.

The EFDSS had a Percy Grainger event a very long time ago (I think at the RAH though the Mermaid springs to mind). Quite nice, though no whisper of PG's alternative activities which might have drawn in a more curious audience.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:31 AM

Surreysinger: acts to fill the Albert Hall acoustically.Here are a few ideas. Well, I've been organising carnival marching bands in virtually all the northwest towns and cities for England for many decades, that's one area I would explore. Some forms of celebratory music obviously, Padstow type stuff. Dohl drummers and dancers from the Midlands. Community choirs. And, absolutely definitely, solo unaccompanied singers and instrumentalists or small groups who are up to it.It's amazing what you can do with a quiet audience yopu know. How do you think the Albert Hall worked in the first decades of its existence? I won't name a lot of names right now, it is an idea I would like to develop, in the Albert Hall or somewhere else. But, I don't believe the idea is really a goer in terms of the Folk Prom. There are vested interests who don't believe that this is the way for the BBC/Folk axis to move in.
Ralphie: who is the Roger Wright that you don't think would wear the idea? Some BBC big cheese?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:31 AM

"Maybe Holograms of Joseph Taylor too....."

okay, now we DEFINITELY need Jim Moray on board!


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:04 AM

No good, I'm getting out of here, work to do and all that... but I'm hurt to think that I belong on the Radio 3 boards ... it's not nice over there (and I was only visiting)... sob...


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:59 AM

Colonel

Don't mention the "C" word.
You could be right....and what's wrong with trivia anyway?
Surely thread drift is the new black?

Regards R


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:56 AM

Colonel will do, Ralphie. I think you were a Crow in those days. Pix probably did the sound desk (why am I telling you this trivia?)


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:52 AM

Greg.

Yes of course it would be a lovely idea. PA almost always turns Trad music into a RAWK gig. Nothing wrong with that, but, The Albert is bloody big, and you'd never get the idea past Roger Wright anyway!
Believe me, I'm not dissing the idea though. Just being practical!

And Irene.....OK....OK.....mutter....mutter
(Don't you just love pedants. Away with you...back to the Radio 3 threads where you belong..!)

R x


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:50 AM

Greg - having made the point before Ralphie did, that the ALbert Hall acoustics would mean that the sound wouldn't travel very far, I'm intrigued to know what sort of acoustic acts you envisage could fill the space. I've stood on the Albert Hall stage as part of a 200 strong choir (non-amplified) of course more than once, and know that its an astonishingly huge and scarey space to fill - even if you're singing with 199 other people. I just can't envisage any of the types of acts that I would be interested in hearing being audible over a very large range. Care to provide a few examples?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:46 AM

Mr Gaddaffi (or should I call you Colonel?)

As you say, lost in the mists of time. I was certainly doing PA for the Cron/Tabor tour that year, as I have the tapes of the Nottingham gig to this day..(No UncleBoko/Bonzo9Yards or whatever you call yourself nowadays, you can't have a copy!)

Did I do the Bracknell gig? possibly, It's a long time ago.

But Yes, it was quite an experimental gig, but, with the musicians involved, it was always going to be so.

Good to know that you remember it after all these years!

Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:46 AM

Actually, what I came back for was to post the link to the Times review, as follows

Times review


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:44 AM

Ralphie: like I said, it would depend on the acts. Bellowhead for example depend on amplification and sound mixing.As do many other acts(including my urban folk fusion suggestion). But there are plenty of kinds of folk music in Britain that do not depend on amplification for their sound, and I think it would be a lovely experiment to do that in the Albert Hall one year for a folk prom. But I don't think it likely that this would happen, because the programming of such events is in the hands of people with acts to promote, and these acts are not in general the people who could explore acoustic(literal meaning) performance.But wouldn't it be a nice change, for one day in the year, to do it the old way?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:40 AM

Oi back Ralphie ... you were the one that mentioned Joseph Taylor ... nothing to do with Benjie at all!!! Percy collected from him (as of course did Auntie Lucy) ... you were the one that brought Percy into the mix...


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:31 AM

Oi Surrey.....
It's Benjie Britten,(always wondered where John K got the idea for his sons name!) not Percy Grainger!!!!

An acoustic folk prom? Well, nice idea, I agree that good old Albert was built before the invention of Marshall stacks, and for large orchestras the sound can be awesome. For one bloke with an acoustic guitar, you'd have to stay very, very quiet....

It's a big place. In an ideal world, you are right of course. I just don't think that a gig like last sundays would have worked without PA.
Bellowhead, acoustic? How would that work?!

I wasn't there sadly, but I hope the PA crew where sympathetic to the music....Can anyone who was enlighten me?

(Did hear a PA howl at one point on R3, but, it was quickly dealt with)

Ralphie Taking off Sound mans hat.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:27 AM

Surreysinger: that would depend, of course, on which musicians were chosen.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:25 AM

Hmm .. nice idea, but knowing the acoustic problems in the Albert Hall, who'd hear any of it if they weren't in the immediate vicinity of the musicians ?? I wouldn't give much hope for anybody up in the gods.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:13 AM

Now, here is a suggestion that will make some people very angry,(I don't know why, but a thread on a similar subject generated near apoplexy).Given the way in which the folk tradition in Britain has been constructed, and given the purpose for which the Albert Hall was built, why not have the Folk Prom unamplified next year?
    Or, another suggestion: I have been working on projects in Manchester and Liverpool over the last few years involving very traditional songs and tunes with young urban rappers. Now, if this is good enough for the north, why not in the Folk Prom?(that would have to be amplified!). I mean, if we are going to have tricky arrangements and innovations, let's go a bit further than Balkan 17/16 rhythms.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:05 AM

Funny enough, I was thinking Andrew Cronshaw in his less experimentative stage - whose projects included June Tabor, Ian Blake, Huw Warren, Ric Saunders and Martin Simpson as co-collaborators. I recall the wow factor kicking in at Bracknell far too long ago during the sound check, with masses flocking to the tent when the performance started.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:05 AM

Like the sound of the Arts Council project ... that would be really interesting to hear... although sneakily I think I would rather listen to the original singers singing "au naturel".

However, if you're going to put up the idea of dressing a la composer, I wouldn't suggest putting up any of Percy Grainger's stuff (that rules out good old Joseph) - not unless you want to wear terry towelling that is ... and then how do you manage to portray Percy's proclivities (that sounds rather lascivious ... mind you , bearing in mind those proclivities, maybe that's appropriate!!)

As to the typo alert ... well shucks, I thought you were just taking it upmarket a bit. At least it was the correct word in French!!

Re the horrors of the Radio 3 Performance messageboard, I've sat down three or four times to compose a riposte to some of the awful garbage and tripe that is being poured forth, but in the end gave up, as it's patently clear that most of them are extremely blinkered, and I decided that there was no point. There are one or two sane posters on there, but they are very much in the minority. What most of them seem to have ignored is the fact that the Beeb's own "History of the Proms" page points out that the Proms were started to introduce a wide variety of music performed to a high standard to the general public - nowhere does it say that that was to be "classical" music. As someone who has performed and enjoyed classical music as a choral singer, alongside my major passion for traditional song, I find the blinkered compartmentalisation displayed very, very sad.

Maybe I'll go over there and post the quote from Carlos Santana ...
"All music is important if it comes from the heart"


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:56 AM

Typo alert....I went all French for a moment there... For "etage" read "stage"
But you knew that....


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:54 AM

Ruthie.

I was thinking rather more of a recording project than a live show.
Mind you, A night at the Barbican with all the artists dressed to the nines.....sounds like fun!
Would have to a good Pianist....Huw Warren perhaps? He plays in all sorts of musical genres, and a very fine accompanist as his work with June Tabor and others, proves.

For the source singer bits, we could have a Wax Cylinder player on stage, and (Yes, of course, the vocal would have to played in from computer, or whatever), With someone pretending to crank the thing up.

And, we could make it a black tie event for the audience too. After all Folkies are notorious cross dressers. Well the men anyway, Mind you, it would be in keeping with Mr Brittens proclivities (Allegedly, he said quickly)

And, because it would look a bit sparse with only 2 people and a Bosendorfer on etage, we could have a complete visual backdrop.
Maybe Holograms of Joseph Taylor too.....


Nurse!.....The drugs have finally kicked in !!!!

Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:37 AM

Whilst I couldn't go along with the description of Martin Simspon as an evening of side splitting merriment, you've got to admit he's a barrel of laughs compared to Bert.

goatfell you summon up visions of audiences in kilts swaying in time to the whisky and singing, An' wi you, and with you, and with you me Johnny lad.....

Its not really like that where you live, is it?


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:33 AM

Times - "Where are the words"


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:25 AM

I can help with the grant app, Ralphie...:)

To be fair, there are narrow-minded folk audiences as well - it can be challenging to programme the kind of music you suggest as a stand-alone concert, as the ticket takeup can be rather indifferent - those events work as part of a festival, though, where people are already there and they think, "What the hell - I'll go in and listen for a bit. I can always nip out if I don't like it."

Jim Moray has been experimenting woth the kinds of crossovers you describe and I think it's really exciting.

I think the big difference for me is that folk audiences don't generally assume that their music is superior to other forms.


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Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:15 AM

People do join in with martin simpson - but n a very muted sort of way. I wonder if that's why Bert jansch left Scotland - were people saying sod all that needle of death stuff Bert, lets have the wild rover!


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