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BS: Teachers on strike UK

paula t 15 Jan 09 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Ian cookieless 15 Jan 09 - 04:38 PM
paula t 15 Jan 09 - 04:04 PM
Jean(eanjay) 15 Jan 09 - 07:05 AM
GUEST,Cats 15 Jan 09 - 05:57 AM
GUEST,Al 14 Jan 09 - 11:44 AM
Peace 28 Apr 08 - 06:22 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 28 Apr 08 - 06:13 PM
Peace 28 Apr 08 - 09:56 AM
jonm 28 Apr 08 - 09:52 AM
Liz the Squeak 28 Apr 08 - 02:40 AM
Cats 28 Apr 08 - 01:53 AM
Peace 27 Apr 08 - 08:07 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 27 Apr 08 - 07:38 PM
Cats 27 Apr 08 - 08:49 AM
sapper82 27 Apr 08 - 05:27 AM
Peace 26 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM
Rog Peek 26 Apr 08 - 01:25 PM
sapper82 26 Apr 08 - 06:25 AM
sapper82 26 Apr 08 - 06:15 AM
The Villan 26 Apr 08 - 05:53 AM
Backwoodsman 26 Apr 08 - 03:07 AM
Liz the Squeak 26 Apr 08 - 02:57 AM
Cats 26 Apr 08 - 02:38 AM
Liz the Squeak 26 Apr 08 - 02:26 AM
Cats 26 Apr 08 - 02:15 AM
the lemonade lady 25 Apr 08 - 05:51 PM
Peace 25 Apr 08 - 01:44 PM
Cats 25 Apr 08 - 01:40 PM
meself 25 Apr 08 - 11:49 AM
Peace 25 Apr 08 - 11:48 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Apr 08 - 11:43 AM
The Villan 25 Apr 08 - 11:30 AM
meself 25 Apr 08 - 11:20 AM
The Villan 25 Apr 08 - 11:02 AM
Mrs.Duck 25 Apr 08 - 10:52 AM
The Villan 25 Apr 08 - 10:50 AM
jonm 25 Apr 08 - 10:31 AM
The Villan 25 Apr 08 - 10:13 AM
The Villan 25 Apr 08 - 10:11 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Apr 08 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,Cats 25 Apr 08 - 08:44 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Apr 08 - 08:27 AM
nutty 25 Apr 08 - 08:24 AM
The Sandman 25 Apr 08 - 08:22 AM
Scooby Doo 25 Apr 08 - 08:14 AM
GUEST,Cats 25 Apr 08 - 07:15 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,Non-striking teacher 25 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,Cats 25 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: paula t
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:06 PM

Being able to talk from various places - and not always from his mouth!


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 04:38 PM

People who work in the field of educational have to be qualified. Those who work with dyslexics and dyslexia similarly. In other words, they need to become knowledgable and to some degree 'expert' to be able to practise. I wonder what qualifications Graham Stringer has had to achieve to become an MP?


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: paula t
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 04:04 PM

As a teacher, I'm sick and tired of MPs , business leaders etc.- who have never taught in their lives- spouting about education.Too much credence is given to their views and we are expected to change teaching methods and the curriculum to suit their current "fad".It is making me feel increasingly frustrated and angry.

I believe that dyslexia does indeed exist, and have met many young people with dyslexia who have had to work very very hard to achieve their full potential.The problem has been overdiagnosis. A great number of parents are too quick to label their child "dyslexic" when they are in fact underachieving for other reasons.I don't even want to get started on that one!(They can usually find some organisation to give them the diagnosis they want - and usually for a fee.) I have known parents demand that their child be given a label, as if that will make everything better.It is a greatly overused word.

Unfortunately this means that schools are trying to spread their resources too thin, and the genuinely dyslexic children may find they do not get all the help they need.This idiot is doing those children a great disservice and he should be made to apologise to them .

Sorry to sound so bitter and twisted, but it's about time someone asked a few teachers what they think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 07:05 AM

I've been reading up on Graham Stringer MP and cannot find anything that indicates he has any qualifications, expertise or experience in this area to allow him to make such a sweeping statement. If anybody has a link that indicates otherwise I would be grateful if they would post it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 05:57 AM

I have just come back from teaching a group of very intelligent, potentially high flying, dyslexic students. Dyslexia is not just about words and ability or inability to read them. It is also about audio sequential memory, visual memory, linguistic skills, organisational skills, thinking differently and seeing things in 3D and huge amounts more. Such a pity he did not do his homework before opening his mouth!


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 11:44 AM

An MP has claimed that the learning disorder dyslexia does not exist and is merely a "cruel fiction" to cover up poor teaching. Skip related content

Graham Stringer, MP for Blackley in Manchester, said it was "wicked" to label children as dyslexic because they were confused by bad teaching methods.

"The education establishment, rather than admit that their eclectic and incomplete methods for instruction are at fault, have invented a brain disorder called dyslexia," Stringer wrote in a column for the Manchester Confidential website.

"Dyslexia is a cruel fiction. The sooner it is consigned to the same dustbin of history, the better."

About 6 million people suffer from the condition, according to the charity Dyslexia Action.

It said that it was not the same as having reading problems and was a combination of difficulties that could also affect spelling, writing, maths or memory.

"Once again dyslexia seems to be making the headlines for all the wrong reasons," said Shirley Cramer, the charity's chief executive.

"It is frustrating that the focus should be on whether dyslexia exists or not, when there is so much evidence to support that it does."

Stringer said if dyslexia existed then countries such as Nicaragua and South Korea would not have nearly 100 percent literacy rates.

He said a scheme in Scotland's West Dunbartonshire area, which used to have a literacy problem among secondary school pupils, had eliminated illiteracy by teaching children to read using the synthetic phonics method.

"It is time that the dyslexia industry was killed off and we recognised that there are well known methods for teaching everybody to read and write," he said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 06:22 PM

Thank you, Don. I stand corrected and do apologize to both B of G memebers and anyone else I have slagged unintentionally. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 06:13 PM

There's a point to be made about that, Peace.

I think there may be considerable differences between UK school governors and US or Canadian school boards.

Lts and Jonm are I think talking about the British setup, and they are absolutely right in saying that the majority of our school governors are prepared to fight for what is best for the pupils.

Also, they tend not to involve thmselves in certain peripheral issues which in the US at least tend to be very contentious.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:56 AM

I congratulate you both for being on Boards that do care. I am aware of some that do NOT, and thus my post. It was not in any way meant to slag ALL Boards of Governors or all School Boards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: jonm
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:52 AM

I have to agree with LtS - in my experience of working with school and college governors, and briefly as a parent governor and staff governor (different times, of course), all are volunteers with solely the best interests of the school and students at heart.

A lot of effort goes into minimising the impact of the latest government initiative on the students. All those lawyers who believe they know education better than either experienced professional educators or the experience of history, then try and impose ridiculous "measures of success" which ineviatably impede the teaching and learning process.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:40 AM

"I understand too that school boards--what y'all would call boards of governors--are interested in things that do not necessarily include the best for children."

I am one of those school governors, on the board of the local primary school. My child no longer attends it, but I'm there til 2010, and I will continue to fight for the best for all the children. However, my 'speciality' as it were, is the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) and integration of differently abled children into mainstream education. This means that perforce, I have to learn and study things that are not obviously 'child centred' but can be applied to general school running.

I can't answer for other schools but to my knowledge, not one of our board members, be they teacher, parent or community member has anything but the interests of the school and its children as a priority. In every item for discussion, be it finance, building maintenance or how many scissors there are, it is always for the benefit of the pupils and the support of the teaching staff.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Cats
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 01:53 AM

But this time STRB's wishes were not in line with the government and we got what STRB said, not what the government said. We also have the reopener clause which the government did not want us to have but which we have and which we have used.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Peace
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 08:07 PM

sapper82: I hear you. And I'm not in total disagreement with you. I think our schools--Canada, US, England, etc.,--ARE suffering from too many political decisions that do not have the best interests of the kids at heart. Those political decisions come from teachers' associations, unions and government. I understand too that school boards--what y'all would call boards of governors--are interested in things that do not necessarily include the best for children. I don't know where that leaves us--just s'long as we're not fighting with each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 07:38 PM

""Its recommendations, however, rarely vary from the Government's wishes Well what a surprise!""

True, and from experience, on the rare occasions when the recomendation exceeds the governments wishes, they simply ignore it and pay less.

Perhaps it is time to ditch the STRB, and and establish a transparently independent body, but nanny government won't have that.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Cats
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 08:49 AM

Rog Peek ~ You have taken your first quote from the NUT website and they have chosen not to be part of the negotiating body in the Social Partnership. They are not one of the negotiating unions, that is their choice and I respect that. I have to say the STRB recommendations were not in line with the government's recommendations but were accepted by the government because all the other teacher unions and STRB had negotiated and accepted them. The government also had to go along with the negotiations being reopened because of the re-opener clause which the SP unions had written in. Do you really think the government would have agreed to reopening and re negotiating a pay deal, which they have to abide by if agreed by STRB, if we were at their bidding? I think not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: sapper82
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:27 AM

But Peace, who was carrying out that research? It was done by an accademia that was, generally, very strongly leaning towards the Left and it was this Left Wing connection, coupled with the fact that many of the accademics themselves were NUT members, that caused the NUT to support it so strongly.

Unfortunately, the post -war creaping advance of Socialism meant that no one in authority was prepared to stand up and defend the tradional teaching theories and a lot of teachers that tried to found themselves not only without jobs, but very often without the support of their union!

It is not as if there were not warnings that the adoption of these methods was not going to cause trouble. The saga of the ILEA's William Tyndall School showed how adoption of modern methods can lead to educational chaos and anarchy within a school.

And this was only because a couple of strongly minded, left leaning, teachers, strongly committed to modern methods, managed to undermine the authority of not only a weak temporary head, but a local education authority beset by it's own problems.

There is also a lesson on the use of language here. "Modern," "Child Centred," "Progressive," "Liberal," "Forward Looking" are all terms used to describe the approaches that were put forward from the late '50s onwards, which immediately gave the educational progressives the moral high ground and the impression that their opponents were, at the very least, "Old Fashioned" or "Out Dated."

The fact that many of the progressive reforms, particularly in the teaching of reading, have consistantly failed is only now officially being recognised.

The damage our children have suffered will be with us for many years to come.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Peace
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM

In Canada, we the people do not have the ability to set pay scales for our Members of Parliament. They do that for themselves.



Sapper82, NUT may have supported what was then perceived to be an innovation in education, supported by research. The implication in your post was that NUT created that. They did not. Then as now, the government supported that kind of education, so as in the present case as in that case, the buck stops with government, not teachers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Rog Peek
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:25 PM

"Teachers' pay is determined by the Secretary of State for Education and Skills after recommendations are made by the School Teachers' Review Body (STRB). The STRB was established by the Government as an independent body. (Oh yeah!). Its recommendations, however, rarely vary from the Government's wishes Well what a surprise! . The NUT is campaigning for the restoration of proper negotiating machinery for teacher unions and their employers." (NUT web site)

"The Review Body may have a maximum of nine members; the Chair is appointed by the Prime Minister and the members by the Secretary of State." (teachernet web site)

"Government has undertaken to implement the recommendations of all pay review bodies unless there are clear and compelling reasons to the contrary." (teachernet web site).

"Every year the Secretary of State sends the STRB a remit letter setting out the matters on which the review body is to report......................The Secretary of State may direct it to have regard to certain considerations such as affordability and the Government's policy on public sector pay, but cannot impose limits on what it may recommend, or the cost of its recommendations." (teachernet web site).

So, the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State appoint the members of the review body, they tell the review body what the government can afford, and invariably the review body sets the pay of teachers in line with the governments wishes.

Just so nobody runs away with the idea that the teachers had an opportunity for negotiation.

Incidentally, I never met anyone opposed in principal to strike action who refused to take the increase in pay, or improvement in working condition that resulted from such action.
Rog


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 06:25 AM

LTS, Considering the chaos and industrial anarchy of the late '70s, thank God we did get Maggie in.
The Trade Unions were not interested in the worker except as a tool to gain more and more power for themselves. A fact well displayed by Scargill's Strike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 06:15 AM

Ironic really.

The NUT were in the forefront of the drive to abolish Grammar Schools.
Result? The gross levelling down we have seen over the past three decades and our brightest children being denied the education their tallents deserve and the country needs.

The NUT were in the vanguard of the move towards the adoption of "Modern," "Child Centred," "Progressive" teaching methods.
Result? More children than ever leaving primary school without the reading and mathematical skills they require and hence feelings of great frustration during their secondary education that contribute to so much of the poor discipline in too many of our schools.

The NUT, during the '60s, demanded total freedom from inspection and fought against any form of assessment of both pupils and teachers.
Result? The imposition of the National Curriculum and OFTURD.

The NUT were strongly in support of "The Society of Teachers Opposed to Physical Punishment" and won the banning of corporal punishment.
Result? A total collapse of Discipline in TOO many of our schools.

Methinks the less the NUT has to do with teaching the better!


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: The Villan
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 05:53 AM

Liz
I don't think it matters who you put in, they all cock it up eventually, if they are in power too long.

I look at the leader at the time of the elections and if I think they could make a good prime minister (or the best choice out of a bunch of w*****s), I will vote for that party. That of course doesn't mean that they do become a good prime minister.

Although brought up on the conservatives, I have voted labout when Harold Wilson was the leader, and Tony Blair when he was leader.

Unfortunately, George Brown (oops sorry Gordon Brown) is such a tosser, I will be voting for Cameron.

I have always voted, even if I wasn't happy with any of the candidates. I try to look at what I think is the best person available for the job at the time.

There should be a law to make it compusary that everybody has to vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 03:07 AM

To not vote at an election is indeed a pointless exercise, Liz. Who notices the wishes of the non-voters? No-one, that's who.

And not voting is a show of disrespect for those who suffered, died even, so that us fortunates in 21st-century Great Britain would have a universal right to vote. We should never forget that, or them.

IMHO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 02:57 AM

Inaction is a far greater sin than action.

To not vote in an election is a pointless excersice. If ALL those eligible to vote had done so in the past 25+ years ago, we might not have had the Conservative government that basically de-clawed and castrated the Unions that for nearly 200 year have fought for safer working conditions and appropriate fiscal recognition for the men and women who form the backbone of our society. We might not have had the 'New Labour' government that has further emasculated and shackled the Unions to the point where they have become a laughing stock in most areas, and almost outlawed in others. We might even have our armed forces safe at home.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Cats
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 02:38 AM

And I will be at the Tolpuddle Union Rally [now expanded to be the Tolpuddle Festival] in July and I will walk in the procession holding my union banner high and I will leave flowers at the graveside of James Hammet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 02:26 AM

"I am told that the working man ought to remain still and let their cause work its way - that God in his good time will bring it about for him. However, this is not my creed; I believe that God works by means and men, and that he expects every man who feels an interest in the subject to take an active part in bringing about and hastening on so important a period. Under such an impression, I would call upon every working man in England , and especially the agricultural labourers, who appear to be the lowest, degraded, and the least active, to shake off that supineness and indifference to their interests, which leaves them in the situation of slaves. Let every working man come forward, from east to west, from north to south; unite firmly but peaceably together as the heart of one man; let them be determined to have a voice in, and form part of, the British nation; then no longer would the interests of the millions be sacrificed for the gain of a few, but the blessings resulting from such a change would be felt by us, our prosperity, even to generations yet unborn".

Tolpuddle, August, 1837 George Loveless.

The occupations may change but the sentiments remain.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Cats
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 02:15 AM

Sal, I could never agree with you on that. My grandmother was a suffragette, went to Holloway Prison and was force fed for her part in getting the vote for women and working class men. It is important to vote. If you don't you have no right to criticise whatever government gets in or what they do. Anyway, I don't want this turning into a thread creep so I'll just say that under the conservative government all negotiating rights werew withdrawn from the unions and there was no consultation just imposition. At least now we are negotiating. And now I'll return to my union work.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:51 PM

Surely the best way to strike is not to vote? Don't go to the polling stations when there's a general election.

Sal


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Peace
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 01:44 PM

Thanks, Cats. I wasn't aware of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Cats
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 01:40 PM

Peace ~ the unions in the Social Partnership [for explanation see my post above] have negotiated a 3 year pay deal. It has in it a reopener clause if inflation rises above a trigger. It did, so the sp unions are all back around the table negotiating another pay deal. This has been going on for a few weeks. NUT are not SP unions so cannot come back to the negotiating table as they have chosen not to be part of the SP negotiating body, consequently, all they have left is indistrial action, they cannot negotiate with the government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: meself
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:49 AM

Of course, a strike is SUPPOSED to disrupt the economy to some degree, and cause some general inconvenience if not distress. This is why nobody in their right mind "likes" them. Bear in mind that they invariably cause 'economic disruption' if not distress to the strikers themselves, so a decision to strike is not taken lightly. Not to say that you have to agree with it, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Peace
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:48 AM

"IMHO I still haven't heard any good sound solid reason for going on strike, considering the disruption and massive cost incurred."

When reasonable negotiation fails, that then is a good sound solid reason. Governments pull the same stuff all over and the same arguments come from the same groups.

The Alberta Teachers' Association took the Government of the Province of Alberta to court because the government wanted to declare us an 'essential service'. The ATA won. Without the right to strike, what recourse do teachers have? I suppose we could throw ourselves at the mercy of our employers?

Tell me this. Tecahers are voicing a concern for wages (in this case). The issue isn't new. Perhaps you could solve the problem the way teachers and government did in Alberta. Negotiations to provied teachers with a wage that is fair and 'raises' that are dependent on the cost of living based on agreed-upon COLA indicators. We will be entering 5-year contract. It took us a long time to get here, and we paid a few prices for it. I would suggest that you could best help make your system better and more secure by complaining to government. They control the purse strings. Rememebr, you'll get what you pay for. It's too bad that the only time most folks care is WHEN teachers have to strike. Sorry for the inconvenience, but I'd like a life, too. And since the general public usually seems not to care about that, then I guess all I have to depend on to effect that goal is other teachers, and the only card we have to play is the strike card. Yes, it is unfortunate, and I think people SHOULD do something about it. It's a disgusting situation. PLEASE, write to your MP. Best wishes to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:43 AM

"Does anybody know what the cost to the economy was for the Teachers strike?"

I should think a fraction of the cost to the economy/taxpayer of sorting out the blunders of this peabrained government. I should think even Cristina Kirshner could do a better job than "noddy" Brown, and she is regarded as little more than a joke now in Argentina - I know, I've been there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:30 AM

Well I don't know. If I pay a taxi company to pick me up 5 days a week and I don't use them one of the days, that has cost me money. Sure, I wouldn't expect the taxi company to do the journey just becuase I had paid them.
So in the same vain, it must have cost somebody money, by not using the facilities that have been paid for. I suppose its a bit like an overhead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: meself
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:20 AM

"That does mean then that they have been paid for something they didn't have to deliver, and is therefore an extra cost."

Oh, come on - first you're complaining that the money is NOT being spent, now you're complaining that it IS being spent. How about if the school busses just drive around and burn up gas during the strike, and the school cooks make lunches and then throw them out? That would keep everything going along nicely, wouldn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:02 AM

IMHO I still haven't heard any good sound solid reason for going on strike, considering the disruption and massive cost incurred.

Lets face it, if you ask for a rise in a private company (notrun by the Gowvernment), it is normally based on performance and inflation (except for promotion of course). If you are told that you will get 3% rise, you either take it on the chin, or if you don't like it, you go find another job with hopefully more pay.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:52 AM

My salary certainly hasn't increased by 19% in any terms in the last 10 years! They have increased by around 10% in financial terms but decreased in real terms with increased costs. As for the retirement (pension) scheme it is funded partly by contributions from teachers and partly by the employer's contribution in much the same way as many other pension schemes.
Yes there are a lot of people worse off. But there are many who get higher salaries for less work. I didn't want to strike - it will mean that next month I will be struggling to make ends meet at all - but a majority decision was made and it was time that it was made clear that teachers were not going to just continue to have their workload increased with no financial reward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:50 AM

That does mean then that they have been paid for something they didn't have to deliver, and is therefore an extra cost.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: jonm
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:31 AM

Bus companies and caterers will not have lost money; they are paid a block fee, not on a per diem / per capita basis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:13 AM

>>why not forgo a general pay-rise, and use the money saved there to pay for increased starting-salaries? <<

Or provide them with accomodation, in the area they have to work and live in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:11 AM

Ok
Is it true that

Fewer than 1 in 3 NUT members bothered to vote in the original strike ballot?

Just 1 in 4 NUT members backed a 1 day strike?

The BCoC estimated firms would lose £68 million as parents took time off to look after children?

Teachers wages have grown by more than 19% in real terms since 1997?

Teachers get gold-plated retirement schemes funded by the taxpayer?

The Tories have surged to an 18-point lead over Labour?


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 09:47 AM

You're very fortunate if you still have a final salary scheme. Most of us in industry lost that years ago, unilaterlally withdrawn by employers and replaced by money-purchase schemes, and we're now at the mercy of the gamblers-in-pin-stripes on the stock exchange. :-(

But I certainly don't begrudge anyone a pay-rise, and I think you are entitled to do whatever your conscience permits in order to achieve your end.

Also if, as keeps being said, the main problem is newbie teachers not getting enough to live on and having to bale out in the first two or three years, why not forgo a general pay-rise, and use the money saved there to pay for increased starting-salaries?


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 08:44 AM

Nutty you are right about the pension loss too, although there is a clause which says if you are within the last 3 years of your emplyment you do not have to go out as this is the time period which your final pension is based on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 08:27 AM

"pay rises are not the only thing that create inflation"

Quite right Capt., I don't think I said they were! I said:-

"The better control is to encourage hard work and maximise production, control public spending, and hold down income inflation. That way, prices don't rise (or not as fast), so no need for big pay-increases chasing prices."

I reckon I said pretty much the same as you, but in different words?


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: nutty
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 08:24 AM

Teachers who went on strike will also lose one day of their pension entitlement


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 08:22 AM

pay rises are not the only thing that create inflation,
cost of raw materials[oil petrol etc],contribute,as does the amount of money being saved or spent[control of the money supply].
the polticians [ IMO, who are useless anyway]give themselves a rise,but wont give comparable income to the teachers.
IN productive industry,rather than service based,it used to be,deliberately arranged between unions and management to manufacture a one day srike[about some minor demarcation],to keep production down[listen to the song William Brown],and no harm was done to the economy at all,it enabled the price of the produced article to remain high,if too much was produced, the price went down.,it is the very nature of capitalism.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 08:14 AM

Mrs Duck.
Thanks for the info you gave me.


Scooby


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 07:15 AM

Sorry forgot to add, if teachers go on strike they lose a days pay. This is worked out as 1/195 of their salary plus on costs as teachers contracts are for only 195 days per year, we do not actually get paid for our holidays. We choose to take our pay averaged out over 12 months so we have money all year round but you could opt to have it paid on a month by month basis. The other thing about teachers contracts is that, until a very short while ago, on top of the 1265 contracted hours over 195 days we had something called 'professional time' which we had to do but were not paid for. This was however much time it took you to do your job!


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM

And Eanjay's right. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: GUEST,Non-striking teacher
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM

The Villan asked:

"Does anybody know what the cost to the economy was for the Teachers strike?" No. Like the supposed average teacher's salary, there will be conflicting figures, as we are not talking about a straightforward calculation.

"Will they lose one days pay and the loss of one days holiday?" Yes, pay is deducted for striking. No, because a strike is not a holiday.

"Will they have money deducted from their salary to refund parents who have had to pay for extra childcare or even take a day off work to look after them?" Rhetorical question, so not worth answering. Who would administer this?!

"Will the bus companies that ferry the children to school be compensated for loss of income and if so who will pay for that?" Rhetorical question, so not worth answering, as above.

"Will the food companies that provide school dinners be compensated for loss of income and if so who will pay for that?" No. Like any strike, there is no compensation for those affected by knock-on effects. I think you know this already: another rhetorical question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Teachers on strike UK
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM

My union was not on strike yesterday but I did nothing that would undermine the industrial action taken by another TUC affiliated trade union. So, what are the other unions doing about pay? Well, when the pay award was declared all those unions who are in the social partnership who negotiate with the government sat together and invoked the clause which was written in, and insisted on, by the SP unions i.e. that if inflation goes above 3.5% we could reopen pay negotiations with the government. For the last few weeks these unions have been negotiating with them for a new increase. It may not be this year that the new increase comes but, as teachers pay rises are negotiated and declared over 3 years, there may be an increase over the next two. NUT are not part of the SP, their choice as they did not agree with some aspects and I respect that, so only had this route open to them. They do not negotiate with the government in the SP. As for going on strike, my union, like the others use strike action as a last resort and usually on a school by school basis. We tend to use actions like withdrawl of good will and as most schools run on the good will of teachers , losing that hits the school but not the students. This does not mean to say that we would never call a national strike but have not done so for well over 25 years, using other forms of industrial action instead and only where needed. We e mailed as many members as possible within 24 hours of the increase being announced and asked what did the members want us to do and what was their biggest concern in conditions of service at present. The overwhelming answer was no strike action but real concerns over the increase in workload.


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