mudcat.org: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot

DigiTrad:
GOOD NEWS
GOOD NEWS, DE CHARIOT'S COMIN'
SWING LOW SWEET CHARIOT


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' Bawdy Gestures (28)
Swing Low Sweet Chariot (53)
Lyr Req: 'Chariots of Fire' - a Christian song (27)
(origins) Origins: Good News - Chariot's Comin' (12)
(origins) Lyr Add: 'Chariot' Spirituals (42)
(origins) Origins: Swing Low Sweet Chariot (rugby) (11)
Swing low sweet chariot 24/7 (rugby) (26)
Artist/Lyr Req: Round & round like a chariot wheel (2)
Lyr Req: The Trumpet - The Chariot (3)


Rog Peek 13 Oct 07 - 05:15 PM
GUEST,Carpeted Individualist 13 Oct 07 - 05:32 PM
Azizi 13 Oct 07 - 05:32 PM
catspaw49 13 Oct 07 - 05:45 PM
Rog Peek 13 Oct 07 - 05:46 PM
Azizi 13 Oct 07 - 06:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Oct 07 - 07:25 PM
catspaw49 13 Oct 07 - 07:49 PM
Azizi 13 Oct 07 - 07:56 PM
Jeri 13 Oct 07 - 08:02 PM
catspaw49 13 Oct 07 - 08:19 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Oct 07 - 08:33 PM
skipy 13 Oct 07 - 08:53 PM
Rapparee 13 Oct 07 - 09:11 PM
skipy 13 Oct 07 - 09:15 PM
Rapparee 13 Oct 07 - 09:19 PM
catspaw49 13 Oct 07 - 09:21 PM
Rapparee 13 Oct 07 - 09:23 PM
catspaw49 13 Oct 07 - 09:34 PM
skipy 13 Oct 07 - 09:40 PM
catspaw49 13 Oct 07 - 09:43 PM
skipy 13 Oct 07 - 09:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Oct 07 - 09:57 PM
Rapparee 13 Oct 07 - 10:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Oct 07 - 11:39 PM
catspaw49 13 Oct 07 - 11:50 PM
Rog Peek 14 Oct 07 - 07:49 AM
Dazbo 14 Oct 07 - 12:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Oct 07 - 02:10 PM
Rog Peek 14 Oct 07 - 02:15 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Oct 07 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,PMB 15 Oct 07 - 04:03 AM
folk1e 15 Oct 07 - 09:47 PM
Rog Peek 16 Oct 07 - 05:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Oct 07 - 06:56 PM
Rog Peek 18 Oct 07 - 01:39 PM
Rog Peek 18 Oct 07 - 01:46 PM
Big Phil 19 Oct 07 - 11:09 AM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:




Subject: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rog Peek
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:15 PM

Coming for to carry me home........

Against all the odds World Champions England make another Rugby World cup Final. What an amazing bunch of lads!

Rog


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: GUEST,Carpeted Individualist
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:32 PM

So what's the difference between one of these Rug Bees and, say, an old fsshioned Quilting Bee?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:32 PM

Rog Peek, pardon the ignorance of a person from the other side of the pond, but I'm curious if the title "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" and the line from that song "coming for to carry me home" is used in association with the English Rugby team {and if so which team-if indeed there is more than one English team}?

And if this African American spiritual is associated with that team, I'm curious about how and why that came about.

Let me hasten to say that I personally see no harm in this religious song being used for secular reasons. Besides if this song is sung at rugby games, perhaps it's not for purely secular reasons. I suppose that in some sense singing this song might mean that the fans are praying for a victory. Or maybe I'm entirely off base with that line of thinking.

Be that as it may, congratulations to your team's win!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:45 PM

I understand that even so Jacques Villeneuve will be starting at Hooker for England.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rog Peek
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:46 PM

Thank you Azizi.

The song is for the England International Rugby union Team.

Wikipedia

Hope this goes some way to explain its use in this context.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 06:07 PM

You're welcome Rog. And thank you. That was interesting reading.

Best wishes,

Azizi


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 07:25 PM

The wackipedia entry is fouled up, a frequent occurrence. "Wallis Willis" is a misunderstanding of the names Minerva Willis and Uncle Wallace. The story that the song was taught to the Fisk Singers in 1871 by these two former slaves of the Indian Territory was printed in a religious magazine, "The Presbyterian," in 1890. No verification is possible.
Another story is that, at the funeral of an African Chief, he was seen to rise from the funeral canoe and enter a chariot; captured natives brought the song to America.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 07:49 PM

Wow......The Fisk Singers!

Y'all may not be familiar with this part of the Fisk Jubilee Singers story, but the infamous 60's song by Bobbi Gentry, "Ode to Billie Joe," can also be linked to the Jubilee Singers.

The story of Billie Joe is based in truth but stylized to some degree. It is an old story, dating back to the the late 40's when the only daughter of John Hatch, a Mississippi Klansman of some note, was in love with the first black attorney in the state. Jubilee Simmons was the grandson of slaves and his parents had named him Jubilee because they had both been members of the famous Fisk Jubilee Singers, where they had actually first met and fallen in love. He had gone to law school at the University of Chicago and returned to his family's home state of Mississippi, taking up residence in Carroll county in 1948.

Klansman John Hatch's daughter was known to be a bit wild and young Kelli had already incurred her father's wrath on numerous occasions. Kelli was living with two other 22 year old women in the small town of Campton, Mississippi when she met and began dating Simmons. Her father learned of it a few weeks later and came into town drunk with some Klan buddies to hunt down and kill Simmons. Simmons law offices were across from the county courthouse and through an open window he could hear the drunken invectives hurled his way from across the square. He slipped out a back door and went to Kelli's house to take her away and save them both from the murderous rancor of her father and his equally violent "brethren."

Not finding Jubilee in his office the Klansmen split up to search for him and John Hatch went to his daughter's, presumably to beat her or possibly (and probably) worse. He arrived before the pair had left and headed in the back porch door adjoining the kitchen. Seeing him coming, Simmons grabbed a kitchen knife and jumped atop the counter and then onto the top of the refrigerator that stood by the door. As John Hatch passed, he didn't notice Simmons who then jumped him safely from behind and in the ensuing struggle, Hatch was stabbed with the knife. The lovers bagged his body and threw it off the bridge on their way out of town. They were on their way to Chicago when they were arrested in Clarksville, Tennessee and returned for trial in Mississippi. Jubilee represented both and thanks to the testimony of one of the roommates and Mrs. Hatch, the wife of the deceased and Kelli's mother, who had suffered abuse for years at the hands of her husband, both were acquitted and moved to Chicago where he established a moderately successful practice on the south side.

The original song told the story as it was, but owing to legal considerations, the Gentry version was done instead. The original was titled, "The Day that Jubilee the Barrister Jumped Off of Kelli Hatch's Fridge."










Sorry..............Told it 7 times before but I figure I can still hook someone.......

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 07:56 PM

Yes, Q. I knew that part of the article was wrong.

But I stand by my statement that the article was interesting.

And although this thread was titled "Swing Low Sweet Chariot", speculation about who composed that song is besides the point of this thread.

The reason for the thread is:

Against all the odds World Champions England make another Rugby World cup Final.

But then again, my question about how "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" came to be used by the team was also thread drift...

I'm sorry if my question took this thread off course...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 08:02 PM

Spaw, that sucks fetid bilge water.

I have a 78 of the Fisk Jubilee Singers singing 'Swing Low'. It's just weird to hear an African American choir with all of their classically trained voices singing in dialect. Sorry - just a personal opinion.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 08:19 PM

Ziz.....This is Mudcat.....the BS section.......No one can possibly keep any thread on a single subject here unless they're so anal they can squeeze an apple fritter in their asshole until it becomes a lump of coal.......and why the hell would they want to anyway? 9 out of 10 BS threads are totally crappola from the outset so who cares if it wanders off course.

We used to classify them in 5 categories-----Thread Drift, Thread Creep, Thread Shift (minor), Thread Shift (major), Thread Blown All to Hell. This one has already reached Thread Blown All to Hell.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 08:33 PM

Ok, getting back to the subject, what is rugby?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: skipy
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 08:53 PM

Well. we took 2 hours out of Banbury Folk Festival tonight to watch our brave boys beat the French! Great festival, we where at "The Bell",
folk music session in one bar & rugby in the other, cracking night!
I was able to watch the game through a window & smoke at the same time!
Skipy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:11 PM

The so-called game of rugby evolved from American Football, Canadian Football, Australian Football, soccer, full-contact karate, a barroom brawl, cricket, and croquet. The sole object of rugby is to maim and/or kill as many members of the opposing team and their supporters as your team and supporters can. The eleven-person rugby team is made up of lefts (responsible for ripping off all body parts on the left side of their opponents bodies), rights (ditto, for the right side), the Center (ditto for noses and other central protrubances), and backs (who jump their opponents from behind and can rip off or out anything they can reach).

The other purpose of the game is to move your opponents balls (already ripped off by your Center) from one end of the field to the other by kicked them along. This is done while both teams are wrapped firmly together, originally in a carpet (or "rug") but now in Kevlar or other bullet-proof material (called, because most rugby players can't spell, a "scrum").

The purpose of the referees is to determine, by counting the various missing body parts, which team won. After this is done everyone retires to the closest bar, tavern, or pub where they drink until they puke and sing dirty ditties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: skipy
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:15 PM

Rapaire, go see someone, get some help.
Skipy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:19 PM

Well, he asked.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:21 PM

Great job Rap.....And I am anxious to see how Jacques Villeneuve does as a starter for the England team.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:23 PM

I thought that it was going to be Jacques Brel.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:34 PM

No.....He has to get busy over on the Herman Goering thread.........

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: skipy
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:40 PM

Am I missing something here? or are you "shot away"?
Skipy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:43 PM

I dunno' skipy........Do you have something against Jacques Villeneuve or is it Jacques Brel you hate?

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: skipy
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:48 PM

........Do you have something against Jacques Villeneuve or is it Jacques Brel you hate?

EH?
Skipy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 09:57 PM

Thanks, Rapaire. I thought it was something like that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 10:52 PM

I can tell you about lots of stuff, and if I'm not sure when I start I will be when I finish.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 11:39 PM

Ah, a true mudcat!

I heard Jacques Villenueve slipped on a cowpie and got hit by a Nascar wicket.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 11:50 PM

Yep.....but I hear they're going to let him pitch the last game of the World Series though!

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 07:49 AM

Yes Azizi, you are correct, if I had wished to generate a discussion as to the origin of the song, I would have put it in the music catagory.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Dazbo
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 12:59 PM

I'm still trying to believe that we beat Australia last week. No hope of getting round to believing we beat France as well till at least the middle of next week, let alone if we can beat South Africa in the final (assuming the world cup doesn't go to this year's form and they don't get stuffed by the mighty pumas)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:10 PM

The only part of Rapaire's post that is actually accurate is the last sentence: "After this is done everyone retires to the closest bar, tavern, or pub where they drink until they puke and sing dirty ditties."

Still, that's always been the most important part of the game.

As for the number of men in a team, just remember Robert Louis Stevenson's rugby song:

Fifteen men on a dead man's chest
Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum
Drink and the devil had done for the rest...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:15 PM

Couple of years ago when England were doing really poorly, Michael Lynah said he was worried that at last England had maybe now got it right, that they were going to peak for the World Cup. He must have had a crystal ball.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:20 PM

All funning apart, congrats to England!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 04:03 AM

Rugby is a bit like what Americans call "football", but faster, harder, and played without breaks or body armour. There are two varieties, League, with teams of 13 a side, and Union, with 15 man (or of course woman) teams. League used to be the better game, but was bought by Murdoch twenty odd years ago and has declined badly. In the meantime, Union adapted several of League's rules and converted a static mudplugging game into a fast- moving and spectacular sport. The downside is the complexity of the rules (or Laws, they take this stuff seriously), which would bring a Talmudic scolar out in a sweat. The only simple rule is the offside rule: a player is offside whenever the referee says the player is offside.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: folk1e
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 09:47 PM

Definately NOT a game for wimps! "it's only a broken arm coach! Strap it up an' I'll be back on the pitch"
It is funny how this "contact sport" does not have players who argue with the ref eather!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 05:18 PM

That is because the referees have full backing of the rugby union, and complete respect of the players. In Association football when a player is penalised he is too often inclined protest his innocence and argue with the referee as a spoilt child might in similar circumstances. When he realises that he is not going to get his own way, he will throw a tantrum, again the actions of a spoilt child.

In Rugby football the player will accept the decision of the referee like a mature reasonable adult, and even if the player believes he has been hard done by, certainly would not argue with the referee or throw a childish tantrum.

This is one of the reasons I rarely watch a game of the former these days but watch the latter whenever the opportunity offers, even if it is not 'my' team playing.

This behaviour difference is reflected amoung the supporters, which is why there never has been and I hope never will be a need to segregate supporters at a Rugby Match.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 06:56 PM

A term that sums up the aspect of the game folk1e mentioned there is "blood substitution" - meaning when a bleeding player is supposed to go off and get stitched up, or whatever, with a substitute temporarily allowed on the pitch until he is ready to come back into the fray, when the blood isn't flowing any more

They also have it in Gaelic Football, and in Hurling, the women's version as well as the men's. And I think there's a similar rule in Australian Rules Football.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rog Peek
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 01:39 PM

Must keep this going for two more days! Someone else will have to keep up the good work though as I shall be in Ireland on Saturday, so hope to be in Con Lucey's (Knocknagree) on Saturday night in my Englad shirt!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Rog Peek
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 01:46 PM

Whoops, sorry, I meant England of course. Mind you, I hope I will be enGLAD so to speak.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Swing Low Sweet Chariot
From: Big Phil
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 11:09 AM

Rapaire

Just to let our American Cousins know, We Brits were playing Rugby Football before the USA was discovered.

Swing low guys and bring the Trophy home, to its rightful place.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 19 April 1:16 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.