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Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'

DigiTrad:
BOLD ROBIN HOOD AND THE PEDLAR
BOLD ROBIN HOOD AND THE THREE SQUIRES
ROBIN HOOD AND ALAN A DALE
ROBIN HOOD AND GUY OF GISBORNE
ROBIN HOOD AND LITTLE JOHN
ROBIN HOOD AND MAID MARION
ROBIN HOOD AND THE BUTCHER (A)
ROBIN HOOD AND THE PEDLARS
ROBIN HOOD AND THE SHEPHERD
ROBIN HOOD AND THE TINKER
ROBIN HOOD RESCUING WILL STUTLY
ROBIN HOOD'S BIRTH & BREEDING...
ROBIN HOOD'S DEATH
ROBIN HOOD'S DEATH (2)
ROBIN HOOD'S DELIGHT
ROBIN REDBRIEST'S TESTAMENT


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Barry Finn 05 Sep 07 - 04:05 AM
Roberto 05 Sep 07 - 04:13 AM
Barry Finn 05 Sep 07 - 04:29 AM
masato sakurai 05 Sep 07 - 05:02 AM
Liz the Squeak 05 Sep 07 - 05:05 AM
Geoff the Duck 05 Sep 07 - 05:06 AM
Barry Finn 05 Sep 07 - 07:10 PM
Art Thieme 05 Sep 07 - 11:38 PM
PMB 06 Sep 07 - 04:55 AM
Geoff the Duck 06 Sep 07 - 06:30 AM
GUEST,BUSPASSED 06 Sep 07 - 07:22 AM
Art Thieme 06 Sep 07 - 12:48 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Sep 07 - 03:08 AM
Barry Finn 07 Sep 07 - 08:05 AM
Liz the Squeak 07 Sep 07 - 10:46 AM
Art Thieme 07 Sep 07 - 11:12 AM
PMB 07 Sep 07 - 11:18 AM
Liz the Squeak 07 Sep 07 - 05:15 PM
Lighter 07 Sep 07 - 05:32 PM
Barry Finn 08 Sep 07 - 04:22 PM
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Subject: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 04:05 AM

I'm not sure if I've got it right, it's pretty close to how I used to sing this yrs ago. What I'm not sure of I'll put in (). Below is what I've found & edited as I remember, any help on setting me straight will be greatly appricated. This is a shorter version, but it's more than long enough to sing (& to listn to) & still keep the story & ballad intack, I don't want to get into his place of birth, his father's occupation (a forrester) etc, I don't want to try learning 50+ verses

Robin Hood's Death (2)

Robin Hood and Little John
Went by yon bank of broom.
Said Robin Hood unto Little John
We've shot for manys a pound.

I am not able to shoot one shot
My arrows will not flee.
But I have a cousin lives down below;
Please God, she will bleed me."

So Robin is to fair Kirkly gone,
(And knocked upon the pin)
And none was so ready as his cousin dear
To let bold Robin in.

And there she's bleeded bold Robin Hood
(And locked him in a room,
And there he's bled the live-long day)
Until the next at noon.

And thinking then of his bugle horn
That hung down by his knee
(And placing it up to his lips,
He blows sweet blast three).

Now Little John was standing by,
Underneath a tree
"My master sounds so near to death,
He blows so wearily."

So Little John is to Kirkly gone
As fast as he could (ride)
(And there he's broke locks one, two, three,
And there he's gone inside)

"A boon, a boon," cried Little John.
"Master, I ask of thee
It is to burn down fair Kirkly-hall
And all their nunnery!"

"No nay, no, nay," quoth bold Robin Hood.
That never can be.
I never hurt a woman, not in all my life,
Nor men in woman's company.

"But place my bent bow all in my hands,
And an arrow I'll let free,
And where arrow has taken up
There let my gravestone be.

(And place my sword beneath my hands)
And my arrows beneath my feet;
Place my bent bow all in my arms,
It was my music sweet.

These words so readily were promised him
(That Robin Hood did seek)
And there they buried bold Robin Hood
Near to he fair Kirkly

Thanks in advance to all

Barry


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Roberto
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 04:13 AM

I don't know if this will be useful to you: here are the transcriptions of four recordings of this ballad. R

a) Robin Hood's Death And Burial
Wallace House, Robin Hood Ballads, Folkways F-6839, 1953, 1962

When Robin Hood and Little John
With a Hey down, down a down, down
Went o'er yon bank of ground
Said Robin Hood to Little John:
We've shot for many a pound
Hey down, down a down, down

But I am not able to shoot one shot more
With a Hey down, down a down, down
My arrows they will not flee
But I have a cousin that lives down below
Please God she will bleed me
Hey down, down a down, down

And when that he came to fair Kirkley Hall
With a Hey down, down a down, down
He knock-ed all at the ring
But none was so ready as his cousin herself
For to let bold Robin in
Hey down, down a down, down

She took him by the lily-white hand
With a Hey down, down a down, down
And led him to a private room
And there she blooded bold Robin Hood
Whilst one drop of blood would run
Hey down, down a down, down

She blooded him in the vein of the arm
With a Hey down, down a down, down
And lock-ed him up in the room
And there he did bleed all the live-long day
Until the next day at noon
Hey down, down a down, down

He bethought him then of his bugle-horn
With a Hey down, down a down, down
Which hung low down to his knee;
He set his horn unto his mouth
And blew out weak blasts three
Hey down, down a down, down

Then Little John to fair Kirkley is gone
With a Hey down, down a down, down
As fast as he can dree
But when he came to Kirkley-Hall
He broke locks two or three
Hey down, down a down, down

A boon, a boon - cries Little John
With a Hey down, down a down, down
O master, I beg of thee
It is to burn fair Kirkley-Hall
And all their nunnery!
Hey down, down a down, down

Now nay, now nay - quoth Robin Hood
With a Hey down, down a down, down
That boon I'll not grant to thee
I never hurt fair maid in my time
Nor at my end shall it be
Hey down, down a down, down

But give me my bent bow in my hand
With a Hey down, down a down, down
And an arrow I will let flee
And where this arrow is taken up
There shall my grave digg-ed be
Hey down, down a down, down

O, lay me a green sod under my head
With a Hey down, down a down, down
And another at my feet
And lay my bent bow by my side
Which was my music sweet
Hey down, down a down, down

These words they readily promis-ed him
With a Hey down, down a down, down
Which did bold Robin please
And there they buried bold Robin Hood
Near to the fair Kirkleys
Hey down, down a down, down

b) Robin Hood's Death
Art Thieme, The Older I Get, The Better I Was, concert recordings from three decades, Waterbug WBG 0045 (1998; song recorded 1979; learned – two verses- from Wes Asbury, a former police chief of Whitewater, Wisconsin).

In Locksley town, in Nottinghamshire
Merry sweet Locksley town
It was there bold Robin was born and bred
Bold Robin, of famous renown

The father of Robin a forester was
He drew a lusty strong bow
His mother was niece to the Coventry knight
Who slew the blue boar as men know

Robin Hood and Little John
Went o'er yon field of broom
Says Robin Hood to Little John:
We have shot for many a pound

But I cannot shoot one shot more
My arrows will not flee
But I have a cousin lives down below
Please God, she will bleed me

Robin Hood is to Kirkleys Hall gone
He's knocked upon the pin
And none was so willing as the Prioress herself
To rise and bid him come in

Come in, come in, bold Robin – she said
And have a beer with me –
No, I cannot eat and I cannot drink
Till I am blooded by thee

Now she blooded him in the vein of the arm
She locked him up in a room
And there he bled the livelong day
Until the next at noon

And first he bled the good thick blood
And then he bled the thin
And last bold Robin he knew for sure
That treason was there within

Thinking then of his bugle horn
That hung down by his knee
And placing the horn up against of his lips
He blows weak blasts three

Now you know Little John was standing by
Standing under a tree
Oh, my master sounds to be so near death
He blows so wear-i-ly

Little John's to Kirkleys Hall gone
As fast as he could ride
And there he's broke locks two or three
And there he's gone inside

Oh, a boon, a boon! - cried Little John
Master, a boon grant me!
It's to burn all of fair Kirkleys Hall
And all of its foul nunnery!

Nay, now nay – quoth Robin Hood
Nay, it never shall be
I've never hurt women in all my time
Nor at my end will it be

But place my longbow in my hand
And an arrow I'll let flee
Wherever it does touch down to the ground
There will my grave digge'd be

And lay a sod beneath my head
And another beneath my feet
And lay my longbow by my side
That was my music sweet

And give me length and breadth enough
As ever when I stood
That men will know when they pass by
Here lies bold Robin Hood

These words they readily granted to him
Which did bold Robin please
And there they buried bold Robin Hood
Within the fair Kirkleys

In Locksley town, in Nottinghamshire
Merry sweet Locksley town
It was there bold Robin was born and bred
Bold Robin, of famous renown

The father of Robin a forester was
He drew a lusty strong bow
His mother was niece to the Coventry knight
Who slew the blue boar as men know

c) Robin Hood's Death
Hermes Nye, Early English Ballads from the Percy and Child Collections, Folkways F-2305, 1957

When Robin Hood and Little John
Went o'er yon bank of broom
Said Robin Hood to Little John:
We have shot for many a pound

But I can not shoot one shot more
My broad arrows will not flee
But I have a cousin lives down below
Please God, she will bleed me

The prioress is my aunt's daughter
And nigh unto my kin
She'll do me no harm – said Robin Hood
For all the world to win

And when he came to Kirkly Hall
He tirled at the pin
And none was so ready as the prioress
To let bold Robin in

She blooded him in a vein of the arm
And locked him up in the room
Then did he bleed all the live-long day
Until the next day at noon

And first it bled the thick, thick blood
And afterward the thin
And then good Robin Hood knew well
Treason there was within

He thought him of his bugle-horn
Which hung down at his knee,
He set his horn unto his mouth
And blew out weak blasts three

Then Little John, when hearing him
As he sat under a tree:
I fear my master is now near dead
He blows so wearily

Little John is to Kirkly gone
As fast as he can hie
And when he came to Kirkly Hall
He broke locks two or three

But give my bent bow in my hand
An arrow I'll let flee
And where this arrow is taken up
Shall my grave digged be

Lay me a green sod under my head
And another at my feet
And lay my bent bow by my side
Which was my music sweet

These words they readily granted him
Which did bold Robin please
And there they buried bold Robin Hood
Within the fair Kirklies

d) Robin Hood's Death
Ed McCurdy, The Legend of Robin Hood, Riverside RLP 12-810, 1957

When Robin Hood and Little John
Went o'er yon bank of broom
Said Robin Hood to Little John:
We have shot for many a pound

Now I can not shoot one shot more
My broad arrows will not flee
But I have a cousin lives down below
Please God, she will bleed me

(...)

These words they readily granted him
Which did bold Robin please
And there they buried bold Robin Hood
Within the fair Kirklies


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 04:29 AM

Whoa Reberto, that's quick for so much, thanks. I do see some lines that spark a memory, espically the last version's last verse, thanks

The Prioress asking & saying "and have a beer with me" sounds a bit more than an invite for a cousin (unless 3 or 4x removed) & a bit out of context, though if I'm asked that by a nun or a Prioress before I die, I'll die a happy man. Maybe that's how Robin felt too?
I've got a thing (unforefilled to date) for nuns, it was my Catholic upbring.

Thanks
Barry


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: masato sakurai
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 05:02 AM

See also Child #120: Robin Hood's Death. Child's The English and Scottish popular ballads (Volume 3) is here.


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 05:05 AM

I'm deeply suspicious of that 'come and have a beer with me' line.

Certainly monastic houses were obliged to provide shelter, and a cousin in any religious Order was a sign of status, but 'come and have a beer' feels like the wrong language for the supposed time period this ballad comes from. 'Take some ale' would be appropriate, or small beer - but 'have a beer' is too modern.

For a prioress to invite her cousin to take some ale with her would be a sign of hospitality and nothing more sinister. Small beer was the drink of choice because many of the water supplies were tainted, and not for nothing do most of our best beers have Ecclesiastical names! The equivalent now would be a low/no alcohol or 'lite' beer - you'd be awash with liquid before any alcohol fueled desires kicked in. As Robin was bleeding, the first instinct would be to offer liquid. If your water supply is suspect, beer would be the best thing to offer. The boiling during the brewing process and the alcohol would make it sterile and by far the safest thing to drink.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I can't help feeling that that line is dodgy.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 05:06 AM

Barry - here is a link to a web site dedicated to Robin Hood. The BLICKY is to the ballad ROBIN HOOD'S DEATH as taken from the Child ballads.
The web site is an interesting read concerning the legend, real people and places which may have inspired the legend and various film and TV versions.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 07:10 PM

Hi Liz
I wouldn't trust a beer offering nun (even a cousin) unless she was offering up more than beer or bottled water but I would tend to agree that drinking it was probably safer. It seems our Robin might have been a bit of a tea drinker (which might be why he was sick, but tea gets boiled too, yes?) & that might account for his great aim or could it be that there were to many tipsy archers around. Isn't meade a bit weaker? "Have a meade" doesnt ring true either.

Thanks Geoff for the link, interesting reading


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 11:38 PM

Alas, I put together my version of this ballad from several others.

Wes Asbury knew 2 verses of this ballad. It was the most unlikely place in all the world to find 2 verses of ANY Robin Hood ballad. This town is on the Rock River--Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin.---Wes was an old gent who grew up in a houseboat on the Mississippi River near Battle Hollow. Battle Hollow was where the final battle of the Black Hawk War was fought where the Mississippi and Bad Ax Rivers converge --- in 1832.

Lets jump back some time. This'll be mostly off the top o' my head...

1832--U.S. president Andrew Jackson ordered every tribe of Indians to move west of the Mississippi River. (Among other things--this caused what is known as the Trail Of Tears to occur.) The Sauk and Fox Native-American tribes resided in the Rock River valley of Illinois and Wisconsin. Reluctantly, to say the least, they "relocated" westward to that country which is now the U.S. state called Iowa. To make this shorter, I can say that it wasn't a good place to be. Nothing was familiar and the game wasn't as plentiful as in the Illinois territory. Getting angrier by the day, a Sauk brave named Black Hawk--a leader but not actually a chief--led a band of men and mostly women and children back into their Rock River home lands. Another chief, Keokuk, stayed in Iowa and was seen as a "good Indian" by the government. He got a city in Iowa named after him.

General Henry Atkinson was ordered to chase Black Hawk---and that he did. The Indians always seemed to be able to escape ingeniously after an encounter. It was a very hot and humid summer and the troops became exhausted and short tempered from dealing with the tactics of the Indians. There was a major battle at a place called Wisconsin Heights where the Indians fought quite hard. Then, afterward, they snuck off under cover of night. The campaign went on and there were a few other skirmishes.

Finally, the troops of Henry Atkinson caught up with Black Hawk's band of Indians as they were trying to wade across the Mississippi River. (You could sometimes, in dry years, do that easily in those days before all the 27 locks and dams were built on the upper Mississippi River between Alton, Illinois and Minneapolis/St.Paul. No dams are below Alton and/or Cairo, Illinois.)

The troops of Henry Atkinson, with the help of a gun boat, massacred the Indians there at the BATTLE OF BAD AX as they tried to escape back into Iowa.

Black Hawk himself, escaped. But he was captured by a young American officer named Jefferson Davis. Also fighting in Atkinson's army in the Black Hawk War was young Abraham Lincoln---of New Salem, Illinois... As far as is known, the 2 never met during this war.

BUT I DIGRESS!!! (As I'm certain you've noticed. ;-)

Here he is --- picture this. Wes Asbury is living in a shack on the flood plain of the Rock River being his cantankerous old self. I had known Wes for a long time because I played for almost 12 years at a bar/restaurant folk club called THE GREEN DRAGON INN just about fifty   yards away from Wes' red-painted cabin with a statue of a naked lady in the window. (To see Wes and his cabin and that statue, plus Joe Moore's Green Dragon Inn, see my photo collection at

http://rudegnu.com/art_thieme.html

Anyhow, it was while indulging in extended summertime talks with Wes at his place that I asked him if he knew any old story songs!!??

Wes would never sing for me--I've got to tell you that right off. He said his singin' days were through. But he did know a version of "The Merrimac"---a Civil War song; and also the Lake Michigan ballad "The Wreck Of The Lady Elgin" which I knew of. I sang him a verse and he yelled, "That's it, that's it, but it weren't no WALTZ!" --- So I did it with my banjo in straight time---and lo-and-behold----it turned out to be "Boil Them Cabbage Down"---same tune anyhow. Small world!

I did tape Wes talking some. Thanks to the software Jerry and you Mudcatters sent me, Wes Asbury is now on his own CD. But no songs at all are there. Just B.S.ing talk about his life in Dakota and growing up--and being chief of police of Fort Atkinson for a while............. Then one day he recited these two verses from "Robin Hood's Death" and wanted to know if there was more to it.

This was a long while ago, but I believe the two verses that Wes Asbury recited for me were:

Place my long bow in my hand
And an arrow I'll let flee,
And wherever it does come down to the ground,
There'll my grave digged be.

Lay a sod beneath my head,
And one beneath my feet,
And lay my long bow by my side,
It was my music sweet.


After that I took a bunch of printed and sung versions. I put it all together so that it told the story the best, I thought.

The first two verses were from "The Birth Of Robin Hood" as recited on a Caedmon LP of Robin Hood ballads   by Anthony Quayle. Many of the other verses were from ED McCurdy's LP on Riverside Records of Robin Hood Ballads. Ed McCurdy was accompanied on that whole album by our own Mudcatter, and former Weaver, FRANK HAMILTON!!

Now, the tune!! The one Ed sang, I thought, was too monotonous and didn't fit the great drama of the ballad. Sooooo, I took the great tune from the ballad "GEORDY" that FRANK HAMILTON included on his LP for Folkways Records. I gave it my own feel though. First, I put it on an album I did for ED Denson's Kicking Mule Records in California (late 1970s) called "SONGS OF THE HEARTLAND" When I did the CD for Andrew Calhoun's WATERBUG RECORDS in 1998, I jumped at the chance to include it on a CD. The performance I used was recorded live at the GREEN DRAGON INN, as I said, about 50 yards (give or take a few) from Wes' small house.

And it's absolutely no tall tale and true that, when the water came up, Wes would row his small boat up to his bed and crawl onto an upper bunk. He passed away in 1979 at the age of 89...

The BEER that seems so hard to believe for some of you was as sung by ED McCURDY.

Barry, that's my take on it!

All the best to you all,

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: PMB
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:55 AM

Beer is certainly wrong. Hops and heresy, turkeys and beer, came into England all in one year. The turkey dates that to the early 16th century or after. I'm not sure which heresy, Luther sounds a bit late (about 1518-1520), and some authorities say hops arrived late 15th century, but it's all a long time after Robin Hood, early 13th century for King John and Richard the Lionheart.

Prioresses would be far more likely to drink wine anyway. I've never seen a nun with a beer gut.


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 06:30 AM

Why did you think they wore the long, loose flowing robes then?
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: GUEST,BUSPASSED
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 07:22 AM

I did see a nun in the Whitby Co-op during the festival carrying a giant size container of Comfort and asked her if it were big enough to which she replied "Well old habits dry hard without it !"

It's true I tell you!


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 12:48 PM

Folks, as I figure you know, these are folk songs. They are a part of the machinations of that corrupting procedure known as the folk process. "Beer" could've happened any of a number of ways.

Art


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 03:08 AM

"Hops and heresy, turkeys and beer, came into England all in one year."

"Beer" in the Middle Ages was called ale - it didn't become beer until the Dutch 'introduced' hops in the 15th Century (1450s is the first confirmed reference I found), although there are vague and unsupported references to hops earlier. See here for the whole story. So it is quite feasible that Cousin Prioress offered Robin Hood an ale, for the reasons I suggested above, but the use of 'beer' is a modern interpretation.

From the Turkey facts site: "Turkeys are believed to have been brought to Britain in 1526 by Yorkshireman William Strickland. He acquired six turkeys from American Indian traders and sold them for tuppence in Bristol. Henry VIII was the first recorded monarch to eat turkey and as he died in 1547, this puts a definate 'here by' date on it.

As for heresy - the usual belief is that this refers to Martin Luther, who first made his protestations in October 1517, being excommunicated for them and other remarks in 1521.

So here we have a selection of dates for turkey, heresy, hops and beer entering Britain. Anywhere between 1450 and 1526 really... bit more than one year don't you think?

Still, it's nowhere near the 1190-1194 absence of Richard on the Third Crusade, his subsequent capture and ransom that caused John to try and overthrow his appointed 'deputy', the Bishop of Ely, William Longchamp that inspired the Robin Hood legends. The earliest mentions I could find are about 30 years after this Third Crusade when Robin Hood was used as a sort of 'John Doe' to describe any outlaw who lived wild. Literary references go back to 'Piers Ploughman' in the 1370's, when beer was still being called ale.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 08:05 AM

Thanks Liz, certinally interesting. Why would Robin refuse drink then if it would help to replenish his system before or during being bled? Any ideas? It might also be that no name of the type of drink (or food for that matter) was ever mentioned in the earlier ballads & "having a beer together" was a much later (& awkward addition)? Sounds like he's headed to a sports bar rather than the grave or hospital bed.
Geoff, thanks for that link. The earlier "The Gest of Robyn Hoode" Child #117 is a great ballad in more ways than one or two, the ground work is far more belivable & more truer to a salt of the earth version than ledgend. Of course it has the length to tell a much longer & in debth story. Who today would sit in a ballad workshop or anywhere & listen to one so long? Yup, probably a few of us who need medication.

Thanks
Barry


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 10:46 AM

The legend I heard was that he didn't like his cousin and suspected her of helping Bad King John in order to gain her high office of Prioress. He refused the drink because he suspected poison. Any good prioress worth her salt would have a stock of home brewed medicines available to nurse her sisters. These would have included monkshood (aconite) and foxglove (digitalis), both medicinal and both affecting the heart in different ways. Because he refused the poison, she bled him but deliberately let him bleed too much.

Interesting that the legend of Robin Hood takes place in Nottingham but his death is in Yorkshire, at Kirkleys (or Kirklees) Priory some considerable distance away.

If anyone is confused why the Kirklees Priory, founded by Cistercian monks should have a prioress, it's because monasteries and nunneries were frequently side by side, separated by walls, coming together (ostensibly) only during worship in the common church.

It's all rather confusing really.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 11:12 AM

By example: A rose is a rose is a rose--even if you spell it "bandanbladastiddle."

This is the first verse of the song "Barbara Allen" as it was sung for me by Del (or Dave) Bray, a retired cowboy, in July of 1962 in Cheyenne, Wyoming---USA. It is still "Barbara Allen" even though the language "probably" wasn't the lyric heard by Samuel Pepys when he reported having heard it sung in 1666.

Near Medicine Bow where I was born
There was a fair maid dwellin'
Made all the boys ride saddle sore
And her name was Barbara Allen!

YES, the song has changed, and "beer" is mentioned, but it is still "ROBIN HOOD's DEATH." Maybe you are correct, and beer wasn't around then, but why does this, seemingly, negate this interesting incarnation of the ballad?!

Art


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: PMB
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 11:18 AM

Is Barbara Allen the song with the line "young man, I think you're Brian" in it?


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 05:15 PM

It doesn't negate it at all Art, it's just that pedants aside, 'have a beer with me' just doesn't hang right, either as a language example or as a sung line - to my mind it just grunts along, it should be rhythmic and sing itself, but this particular version just doesn't gel.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 05:32 PM

Beer has been around since the days of the Pharaohs. In Tenth Century England, before the easy availability of hops, "beer" and "ale" were synonymous (and meant what we'd call "ale" today).

There's an inaccurate bumper-tciker around that says, "Beer. Helping Ugly People Have Sex Since 1862." Now if you see it, you can feel superior.

It's not so much the beer in the ballad as the idiom that doesn't ring true (that means "sound old")to me. But I've been wrong before.

Art, that's a great story, and thanks for sharing it.


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Subject: RE: Corrections on 'The Death of Robin Hood'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 04:22 PM

Hi Art
I agree with Liz the "beer" phrase doesn't negate any part of the song or story, it's just that I couldn't sing it that way, it's just my personnal taste, which God knows at time can be quite poor.
The "beer" phase does date back quite a ways, it seems that Child has 3 versions from the Englisk Archer(Paisley 1786) that closely resembles what I have in 'Old English Ballads & Folk Songs' (Ames 1910) titled "Robin Hood's Death & Burial" & that has the beer phrase included. I can only find the "beer" in modern text though, as mentioned above, in old english (if that's the correct term) I find only the mention of Robin offering up gold to the Prioress & she offers nothing in the welcoming of him in.   
Anyway here's what I've pieced together, that's very close to what I use to sing many yrs ago & what I'll use as a text from now on. I've tried to keep it as short as possible & still keep as much of the main ballad's telling intack without losing any of it's gut's but did stay away from his birth place, his father, the 2 children & the old women & her ramblings, his fight with Red Roger all of which was never part of the version I originally sung anyway & which would have had me singing one of the longer versions well over a 100 verses long. Not with my memory & there would be absoultly no one to sing it to.

          Robin Hood's Death (2)

1.    Robin Hood and Little John
      Went by yon bank of broom.
      Said Robin Hood unto Little John
      We've shot for manys a pound.

2.    I am not able to shoot one shot
      My arrows will not flee.
      I've a cousin lives down below;
      Please God, she will bleed me."

3.    So Robin is to fair Kirkly gone,
      He knock'd all at the ring
      There was none so ready as his cousin dear
      To let bold Robin in.

4.    She took him be the lily-white hand
      And led him to a private room,
      And there she's blooded bold Robin Hood
      Until the next at noon.

5.    And thinking then of his bugle horn
      That hung down low by his knee
      He set his horn unto his mouth
      He blows sweet blasts three

6.    Little John was standing by,
      Underneath a tree
      "I fear my master is now near dead,
      He blows so wearily."

7.    So Little John is to Kirkly gone
      As fast as he could dree
      When he came to fair Kirkly Hall,
      He broke locks two & three

8.    "A boon, a boon," cried Little John.
      "Master, I ask of thee
      It is to burn down fair Kirkly Hall
      And all their nunnery!"

9.    "No nay, no, nay," quoth bold Robin Hood.
      That boon I'll never grant thee.
      I never hurt a woman, not in all my life,
      Nor men in woman's company.

10.   "But place my bent bow all in my hands,
      And an arrow I'll let flee,
      And where arrow has taken up
      There let my gravestone be.

11.   And place my sword beneath my hands
      And my arrows beneath my feet;
      Place my bent bow all in my arms,
      It was my music sweet.

12.   These words so readily were promised him
      That Robin Hood did seek
      And there they buried bravest outlaw
      Near to he fair Kirkly

Thanks to everyone for all the input & links in helping me put this back together again

Barry


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