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A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims

In Mudcat MIDIs:
Not My Colorado [katlaughing]


Big Mick 28 Apr 99 - 11:02 PM
Rick Fielding 28 Apr 99 - 10:49 PM
Alice 28 Apr 99 - 08:57 PM
Sheye 28 Apr 99 - 08:31 PM
Matthew B. 28 Apr 99 - 06:38 PM
O'Boyle 26 Apr 99 - 07:20 PM
Shack 26 Apr 99 - 05:49 PM
Ethan Mitchell 26 Apr 99 - 09:27 AM
hank 26 Apr 99 - 09:17 AM
LEJ 26 Apr 99 - 01:24 AM
LEJ 26 Apr 99 - 12:59 AM
Alice 26 Apr 99 - 12:00 AM
BK 25 Apr 99 - 11:28 PM
Rick Fielding 25 Apr 99 - 12:21 PM
katlaughing 25 Apr 99 - 10:32 AM
lloyd61 25 Apr 99 - 07:30 AM
DonMeixner 25 Apr 99 - 01:29 AM
Rex 24 Apr 99 - 06:50 PM
Roger in Baltimore 24 Apr 99 - 02:10 PM
The Shambles 24 Apr 99 - 06:03 AM
Alice 23 Apr 99 - 06:27 PM
steve in ottawa 23 Apr 99 - 05:08 PM
katlaughing 23 Apr 99 - 03:52 PM
katlaughing 23 Apr 99 - 03:16 PM
Frank Howe 23 Apr 99 - 01:05 PM
katlaughing 23 Apr 99 - 12:55 PM
ddw in windsor 23 Apr 99 - 01:41 AM
katlaughing 22 Apr 99 - 10:40 PM
Tucker 22 Apr 99 - 10:27 PM
MAG (inactive) 22 Apr 99 - 10:20 PM
Alice 22 Apr 99 - 10:14 PM
The Shambles 22 Apr 99 - 08:33 PM
The Shambles 22 Apr 99 - 08:29 PM
catspaw49 22 Apr 99 - 08:08 PM
The Shambles 22 Apr 99 - 07:53 PM
Tucker 22 Apr 99 - 05:44 PM
Tucker 22 Apr 99 - 05:28 PM
Matthew B. 22 Apr 99 - 04:20 PM
AuntBea 22 Apr 99 - 03:36 PM
Alice 22 Apr 99 - 03:04 PM
katlaughing 22 Apr 99 - 02:02 PM
Penny 22 Apr 99 - 01:47 PM
Cuilionn 22 Apr 99 - 01:46 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 22 Apr 99 - 01:43 PM
anna 22 Apr 99 - 01:27 PM
Indy Lass 22 Apr 99 - 01:05 PM
Rex 22 Apr 99 - 01:02 PM
katlaughing 22 Apr 99 - 12:42 PM
Margo 22 Apr 99 - 12:29 PM
Bob Schwarer 22 Apr 99 - 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Apr 99 - 11:02 PM

Sheye,

You don't jump in often, but when you do, you make a hell of an impression. Thanks for a thoughtful and thought provoking post. I was touched by it, but more importantly it caused me to ponder my own actions. Your observations regarding being more tolerant in our daily lives resonates with me. Thanks for a great posting. But watch it, your heart is showing.

Mick


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Apr 99 - 10:49 PM

Dear Alice, thanks for posting the latest information from Alberta. I wanted to but just could not find it in me at the moment. A week ago I wanted to scream "there ARE answers, if we can find the will". Today I have no answers, only sadness.

Shey, thanks for a fine and truthful posting

rick


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Alice
Date: 28 Apr 99 - 08:57 PM

Sorry to add that one Canadian student died and one went to surgery in the Alberta shooting. Right after I posted about the Canadian shootings today, my son came in the door with all of his stuff from school. His school was again evacuated (like last Friday) except this time they told everyone to remove all their belongings and locker padlocks and take them home. Local evening news announced that a bomb threat letter had been sent to the school saying there were three bombs and they would blow up tomorrow (Thursday). School is cancelled for the rest of the week while they search the buildings again. They will have to add two days to the end of the term. This is madness. We are not living in as much fear as those huddled in bomb shelters or hiding in the Balkan mountains, but it still is madness.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Sheye
Date: 28 Apr 99 - 08:31 PM

This is the first time I've clicked onto this thread.

Who's to blame? We all are. The Indians believe the village raises the child. I believe the Indians are right. Every time we get pissed at the driver in front of us and swear instead of allowing them the grace of their error, we are adding to a black void that might not be hatred, but is certainly sucking away love. Every time we do something selfish (not even necessarily mean) we are adding to the illusion that we don't need to love others. Every time we forget to say thank you for the little things they become less important...

The bigger the city, the easier to hide in the anonymity. We think we can misbehave where no one knows us, but each of us is the product of our experiences and each of us leaves a mark on all we come in contact with.

What are we willing to give up to spare the pain of our neighbour? If I had to vote yes or no to censorship, I would say no. I am not willing to give up that freedom, but I know that access to information can be destructive.

Another comment. We, the creatures, are also at the mercy of statistical variation and mutation. Sociopaths exist. If a person is born without the ability to understand consequence or feel guilt, all the parenting and love in the world won't change that.

Mick, Frank, you asked when we will learn. Not today. It breaks my heart to tell you that two high school students were shot in one of Alberta's high schools today. Initial reports are that both survived.

I can offer no answers, only tears and a hug.

Sheye


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Matthew B.
Date: 28 Apr 99 - 06:38 PM

Alice,

You really have a gift for writing stuff that gets me thinking. As for your eye-opening comment about the violence in computer games, let me add one more suggestion to the list that LEJ gave you.

A few years ago, my son (then 14) turned me on to SimCity, an engrossing, entertaining, and amazingly addictive game in which you have to help a city develop in everything from infrastructure to taxes. And while you're doing it all, you watch your city develop over the years.

Matthew


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Subject: Lyr Add: I DON'T LIKE MONDAYS (Bob Geldof)
From: O'Boyle
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 07:20 PM

In the late 70's, Brenda Spencer shot up Cleveland Elementary school in San Diego, Ca. When asked why she did it, she said it was because she hated mondays. Bob Geldof of the Boomtown Rats wrote a song about it which was banned. I never understood why it was banned, except that people did not take the time to listen to it's message asking why some thing like this should or could happen. I put it back in my playlist the night after the shooting and people have responded well.

Rick


I DON'T LIKE MONDAYS
(Bob Geldof)

The silicon chip inside her head
Gets switched to overload
And nobody's gonna go to school today,
She's gonna make them stay at home,
And daddy doesn't understand it,
He always said she was good as gold,
And he can see no reasons
'Cause there are no reasons
What reason do you need to be shown

Tell me why I don't like mondays,
Tell me why I don't like mondays,
Tell me why I don't like mondays,
I wanna shoot
The whole day down.

The Telex machine is kept so clean
And it types to a waiting world,
And Mother feels so shocked
As her world is rocked,
And her thoughts turn to her own little girl.
Sweet sixteen ain't that peachy keen,
No, it ain't so neat to admit defeat,
They can see no reasons
'Cause there are no reasons
What reasons do you need

Tell me why I don't like mondays
Tell me why I don't like mondays
Tell me why I don't like mondays
I wanna shoot
The whole day down, down, down, shoot 'em all down...

And now the playing's stopped in the playground now
She's wants to play with her toys awhile
And school's out early and soon we'll be learning
And the lesson today is how to die.
And then the bullhorn crackles,
And the captain tackles,
With the problems and the how's and why's
And he can see no reason
'Cause there are no reasons
What reason do you need to die

The silicon chip inside her head
Gets switched to overload
And nobody's gonna go to school today,
She's gonna make them stay at home,
And daddy doesn't understand it,
He always said she was good as gold,
And he can see no reasons
'Cause there are no reasons
What reason do you need to be shown

Tell me why I don't like mondays
Tell me why I don't like mondays
Tell me why I don't like mondays
I wanna shoot
The whole day down.


Click for background information on this song


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Shack
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 05:49 PM

I was wondering how 95 people could come up with a song for on an occasion which freezes the heart, from which a good song must be sung. Most of us named no song. Such a song would be "much to sad to write."


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Ethan Mitchell
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 09:27 AM

For the parents (and students?) here: Grace Llewellyn wrote a book some time back called *The Teenage Liberation Handbook*. I believe it's published by Lowry House. It says nothing about bomb threats, or about gruesome video games. What it *does* have is the absolute most cogent analysis of what is wrong with high schools / young people in America, and how to deal with it. I cannot recommend this book highly enough.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: hank
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 09:17 AM

After considering this all weekend I've come to a unhappy conclusion: This is the price we pay for freedom.

Things like this could be prevented. I think that most of us however would not want to have transmitters attached to us (surgicly) so that our every move can be tracked. Random searches at least once a year (weekly anyplace where there is the hint of trouble) Every strong person can wear heavy weights to slow them down to the level of "lesser" people. Every good dancer could have their legs broken (and set wrong) so they can't dance. Every smart person could have distracting headphones (or electric shock devices) so they can't carry an independant thought. Read Harrison Bergeron (a short story whos title I've murdered) for more info.

Yes, this is preventable. But the cost is more then I'm willing to pay. I would rather take the chance that I or my best friends could be next then to live in a socity where I don't have the freedoms I have.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: LEJ
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 01:24 AM

Oh, and Alice. There are plenty of thoughtful and positive games on the market. The Kings Quest series is non-violent and helps kids use their puzzle-solving skills. Other good games are Civilization,the Monkey Island series,Heroes of Might and Magic( which offers battle sequences that are fun but lack graphic violence),Age of Empires, Battleground Gettysburg (and any of the other Battleground games),and many others. E-mail me at radioshack@wcox.com if you have any concerns or questions...LEJ


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: LEJ
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 12:59 AM

In my store I sell cd-rom games, and I also evaluate and play some of them myself. There are good and bad games but unfortunately adults don't know nearly enough about them. I often wonder about the attractive and well-dressed woman with the 8 year old kid in tow who comes in asking for "Duke Nukem." This is a game where the player takes the identity of a character and walks through several scenarios blasting creatures or other "evil" humans away. The graphics are stark with spurting blood and dismemberment. The character picks up new weapons as he moves through the scenarios, escalating from a pistol, to a shotgun, to a grenade gun. Because of her ignorance this woman wants to put this in the hands of her 8 year old. It probably makes a good babysitter for him while she has a relaxing coffee break with her friend.

If you have a kid who plays these games, you had better take a look at them. They are far more dangerous than movies, because the kid interacts with them. Titles like Doom, Blood, The Chosen and others are along the same lines. They are called "Shooters" in the industry, and I no longer sell them, nor will I let my child play them.EDUCATE YOURSELF.

LEJ


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Alice
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 12:00 AM

BK, when I was looking for some kind of educational computer games for my son, I found that almost all computer games made for his age group are violent. I called PC/Mac Connection and asked them if they had any more games like the ones I approved of... Connections with James Burke, Amazon Trail, games where you solve puzzles and learn something. No, they told me, they didn't have any other games like that, but they had a special bundle of violent/occult games on sale... I told the salesman I would never buy games like that. He sounded just a little apologetic that he had no alternative.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: BK
Date: 25 Apr 99 - 11:28 PM

We are over 50. We have no kids and never watch TV, so a recent spate of exposure to kids video games, as well as commercial TV almost freaked me out. I was sickened by the intensity & pervasivness of the violence. I simply can not believe that the combination of intellectual pablum and emotional monstrosities that appear to be inundating "entertainment" & the media is not having an enormous negative effect. It can hardly be blamed for every aspect of ill in society, but it's got to hurt- A LOT!

If we had kids, I would do as one of my colleagues said he did with his teenagers; He banned video games from his household (and no doubt did many other things as well). From what I saw of many video games, (not just a few), those sick kids in Colorado were clearly acting consistent with the behavior shown in these "games" sick video fantasies. I wonder what "entertainment" these kids watched. I wonder what video games they played?

Of course, video games are marketed by adults, out to make a profit. How is this different from many other things adults do... and children see...

Appalled by the tragedy, saddened for the families, & bummed out in mid America, BK -who works in prisons...


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Apr 99 - 12:21 PM

Most of my internal fear, panic and desperate stabs at coming up with some kind of answer over the past week funneled into the song "Til All Thy Names Are One", which I opened a concert in Whitby with last night. Thanks Bob Zentz for a wnderful song.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Apr 99 - 10:32 AM

Lloyd: what beautiful words. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: A Song for Colorado's Victims
From: lloyd61
Date: 25 Apr 99 - 07:30 AM

When peace, like a river, attendeth my way, When sorrows like sea billows roll. What ever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say, It is well, it is well with my soul.

Philip P. Bliss 1838


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Apr 99 - 01:29 AM

Just about the time nothing will amaze me anymore, something does. The only difference between these two boys and Loeb and Leopold is the available technology and all thing on which to throw fault. It was the boys who pulled the triggers and threw the bombs. It was their parents who watched at a distance and were too busy to see the road ahead. There is really no fault beyond that.

I believe I can't save the world so I'll save my sons by being here when I'm needed and nudge them to the path when I see them off their course. If I can save them then maybe by example I will help to save another. Thats what life is, an endless selection of choices and it all comes back to personal responsibility and proper choices. (I hate to sound like that insufferable, insensative Harpy Dr. Laura, but in this very rare case she is correct.)

If I could ease the pain a little with a song I'd choose "Turning Toward the Morning" and "In the Garden"

Don


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Rex
Date: 24 Apr 99 - 06:50 PM

I was saying before about getting kids involved with something. Keep them busy. I read other things here pinpointing specific ideas. It occurs to me I need to trim down a little closer to the core. Kids get a good dose everday of what is ugly about being a human being. We all do. It's in our face all the time. The terrible things people do to the environment and more so, to each other.Wouldn't it be helpfull, maybe, to show kids what is beautiful about being a human being. How is it better than being say, a sea slug? What's so great about being put on this planet to scratch about for our three score and ten years? This site does well to promote the beauty and wonder of music. But there is so much more. To build something with your hands and fail, the first time, but then succeed later. To make order out of chaos and make something pleasing to the eye or ear. To help out a friend, or a stranger. There's so much to do on this wonderful planet. There's really no place for boredom. Or hate.

Rex


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 24 Apr 99 - 02:10 PM

From 20 something niece-in-law who lives in Colorado.

Turn On Your Lights for America

As I was driving to work this morning I passed by an elementary school and noticed that the flag had been lowered to half-mast in memory of the students and their families in Littleton, Colorado. What a wonderful gesture that simple act is. But, I thought to myself, what can I do to show others that I too am deeply affected by this tragedy.

Turn on a light. Turn on my headlights. Turn on my porch light. Put a light in your window. But how do I get this message to others? Use the Internet. I'm sending this message to everyone on my email list and am asking that you do the same. I am going to turn on my headlights on Friday morning on my way to work,on Saturday as I run my errands and especially on Sunday as I go to my place of worship. I'm also going to turn on my porch lights on Friday,Saturday and Sunday night.

I'm going to turn on my lights for the families in Littleton to show them that I care about them, that I feel the pain and hurt and heartache.

I'm going to turn on my lights for what is right about this country.

I'm going to turn on my lights against the darkness, the anger and the prejudice. I hope you will join me. One light is not much but put them together and we can light up the world.

Turn on your lights - show that you stand for what is right about America. And as you turn on your headlights and porch lights this weekend; turn on the light in your heart and soul. Show the world that this is not what America is all about. With your light shining bright, along with others, we can come together (if only for a brief moment) and combat the evil that confronts us all.

Please pass this email on to everyone on your address list. Lets see if we can get this message to everyone across this great country before Friday morning and lets use the Internet for what it was intended - good.

Turn on your headlights Friday, Saturday and Sunday April 23, 24, and 25.

Turn on your porch lights Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night April 23, 24,and 25, Light up America. Show that you care about what is right about our country.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Apr 99 - 06:03 AM

There is more on the subject CLICK HERE Frenzy


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Alice
Date: 23 Apr 99 - 06:27 PM

Well, it's a lesson too late for the learnin. My son just walked in the back door about an hour ago, an hour too early for school to be out, without his jacket, violin, or backpack. I said, Is today an early release day? No, mom, there was a pipe bomb threat at school and they sent us out in a "fire drill", then told us about the bomb threat and said anyone who could walk home should go home. I'm glad I work at home so I was here when he came in. The rest of the kids were sent to a food prepartion building that is farther from the highschool/jr. high complex. He was upset in part that all of his things had to be left in the school over the weekend, then he realized it was a serious threat that could have been worse. Do we need to take our kids out of schools and teach them at home? I've been thinking about it seriously, ever since the broken collar bone event. I was listening to the radio news, and it mentioned that authorities all over the country are today dealing with kids going to school in black trench coats and bomb threats (copycat syndrome). My son said, Mom, some of the kids were laughing about it and thought it was cool that there could be a bomb.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 23 Apr 99 - 05:08 PM

PIE JESU

Thank-you, Alice for that thought. I've got it playing right now.

What shocked me most about the Colorado massacre was that I'd all but ignored a local massacre in Ottawa a few weeks ago: a disgruntled former transit worker went to the bus depo, wounded three people and killed four, none of whom included the enemies he'd named in his suicide note. One of the slain was a part-time musician that I've probably heard at least once. I just shrugged it off.

Damn, that music is moving.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 99 - 03:52 PM

No, I am not dyslexic! I just didn't proof it! Sorry! kat


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 99 - 03:16 PM

Frank: my thoughts exactly! I get so annoyed at the so-called reporters here. NP, at the Univ. of WY has been fundraising all week on the strength of their local news caoverage, yet not once this week did I hear THEM do a report on how the University wants to abolish all foriegn languages AND the UW Family Practice Health Centers! Some invesigatve journalism!

I believe the media is driven by what they perceive the market wants. Reporters have become entertainers judged on ratings, not the content of their presentation. For this we are all guilty.

I am amazed this week, again, at the local newspaper reporters. They've done nothing, that I've seen, on our community and how to prevent this kind of thing happening her. I talked ot my sister who teaches here last night. She had a boy in the 5th grade last year who is worse this year. She is fearful of her life and those of everyone else,including him, because he is a walking time bomb. She worked really ahrd ot get him help last yr., it failed, this yr, it's been over a month since he ahs been identiied as needing counseling and intervention and still no appt to get started on that. Does the media go after and investigate this kind of "sweeping under the rug"? NO, because they, at least in this community, are in bed with the school administration and want to present a facade of wholesome, white-bread, two cars in every garage America.

When I called a lead reporter about abuses in our pentitentary, which denied inmates medical attention,esp. insulin for diabetics, do you think she followed up on it? She asked me to keep her informed, knowing that I am a freelance writer. I told her editor that if I was going to do all of the investigating and followup and writing and long distance phoning, it would be under my own by-line for national not to hand to a lazy incompetent who wouldn't know a story, or even a hint of one, from a hole in the ground.

With that in mind, I am meeting with a school board member on Monday to cover issues which concern me about violence and safety in school as well as the closing of 23 classrooms due to "reduced enrollment", but the added expenditure of an added 9th grade of 17 students at a back-to-basics school, to the tune of $60,000. NONE OF WHICH HAVE BEEN REPORTED, ALTHOUGH IT IS PUBLIC RECORD KNOWLEDGE!

AArrrggghhhhh! Sorry. Had to vent, I guess!

Thanks, Frank,

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Frank Howe
Date: 23 Apr 99 - 01:05 PM

At the risk of both preaching to the choir and simultaneously annoying those who disagree, I feel compelled to respond to "ddw in windsor"'s point about press coverage and the purpose it serves to help keep us informed and to energize social change. Both functions of a free press are valid and essential in a healthy free society. I would never want to lose such First Amendment benefits. The media has the right to cover such tragedies as they do. It is patently untrue however that sensationalistic coverage such as we have seen is needed to increase the general public's information base or advocate for any useful social change. No sensible person needs to see bloodied tearful children, to know that shootings in a high school are an awful tragic event that must be prevented. No sensible person needs to hear a young girl crying and looking about for missing friends to know how terribly upsetting such events are to survivors as well as victims. No sensible person needs to hear a reporter commenting that a community has been rocked to its foundation or that it will never be the same again. Such video clips, insensitive questioning of people when they are most vulnerable, and dramatic statements validating the devastation are simply lazy reporting. They are easy attention grabbers. The hard work or reporting takes time and effort. Find out for us how we can spot and prevent such tragedies in the future. Investigate the systems that serve these children and see how they can be strengthened. Dig and come up with useable information for positive change. Don't rush to print or video screaming "the sky is falling" and then graphically depicting how it has fallen on our children. Such sensationalism serves no useful purpose. It does however serve to very dangerous purposes: It creates great fear, sadness, and anger in a large portion of the population who then demand / expect quick answers. A local school system here in Virginia just banned certain kinds of clothing (can you guess what color) in response to the killings in Colorado. This quick fix is far from helpful. It has already resulted in reactions of alienation and anger from the very kids we ought to bring back into the community. Instead we further isolate them.

Secondly (and more to the point) this sensationalistic reporting is greatly appreciated and enjoyed by those who lean in the sad direction of committing such crimes. They see a mighty stage on which to act out their rage and ineptness at finding a way in life. This kind of reporting encourages and validates their need to make a big statement. The tears, the chaos, the "never-be-the-same" statements buy us the next massacre.

The right to know must be balanced by a responsible presentation of information, which moves us all in a positive direction.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 99 - 12:55 PM

Bet just forwarded the following to me. Thought those of you whom I haven't already emailed with it, might like to read it, too. It may seem to be only a gesture, but it is a start at something unified. There is great power in the medium of the Internet. Let's keep using it for the good, as we do here at the Mudcat. kat

From: karen tuinstra > Turn On Your Lights for America > As I was driving to work this morning I passed by an elementary school and noticed that the flag had been lowered to half-mast in memory of the students and their families in Littleton, Colorado. What a wonderful gesture that simple act is. But, I thought to myself, what can I do to show others that I too am deeply affected by this tragedy. > Turn on a light. Turn on my headlights. Turn on my porch light. Put a light in your window. But how do I get this message to others? Use the Internet. I'm sending this message to everyone on my email list and am asking that you do the same. > I am going to turn on my headlights on Friday morning on my way to work, on Saturday as I run my errands and especially on Sunday as I go to my place of worship. I'm also going to turn on my porch lights on Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. > I'm going to turn on my lights for the families in Littleton to show them that I care about them, that I feel the pain and hurt and heartache. > I'm going to turn on my lights for what is right about this country. I'm going to turn on my lights against the darkness, the anger and the prejudice. I hope you will join me. One light is not much but put them together and we can light up the world. > Turn on your lights - show that you stand for what is right about America. > And as you turn on your headlights and porch lights this weekend; turn on the light in your heart and soul. Show the world that this is not what America is all about. With your light shining bright, along with others,we can come together (if only for a brief moment) and combat the evil that confronts us all. > Please pass this email on to everyone on your address list. Lets see if we can get this message to everyone across this great country before Friday morning and lets use the Internet for what it was intended - good.Turn on your headlights Friday, Saturday and Sunday April 23, 24, and 25 > Turn on your porch lights Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night April 23, 24, and 25, Light up America. Show that you care about what is right about our country.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: ddw in windsor
Date: 23 Apr 99 - 01:41 AM

Just finished reading all the way through this thread and have to admit there were tears at many of the posts. By now you'd think I'd be past that. I've spent the last 25 years of my life as a journalist -- most of 10 sitting in courtrooms listening to the unbelievably terrible things people do to each other for unbelievably stupid reasons, often for no reason at all. I finally went on the desk as an editor to get away from it, at least a little ways away. Now I only deal with murder, mayhem, grief and all the pain people suffer after it's been filtered through the eyes and minds of others, but it still hurts, especially something like this.

While I agree with a lot of the things already said, there are two that I can't -- and both for very similar reasons.

Ban the guns? I won't rehash the rebuttals, but it won't work. Man has been slaughtering his fellows one way or another since time began and at least a gun can help a weaker person ward off an attack by a stronger one, or at least it gives him a chance. It seems to me what we have to work on is how we view guns, their uses and other people.

The other thing that got under my skin a little was the references to the BAD OLD MEDIA for showing us all the carnage and its aftermath, thereby giving the next sicko a blueprint for his 15 minutes of fame. Same argument; news is as necessary to keeping the bullies (and they come in lots of forms) at bay as guns are and the only thing that separates good information from bad information is how it's used.

I find it astounding when -- not necessarily here, because I don't know what many mudcatters do for a living -- when I hear educators, those great purveyors of information, slagging journalists for trying to portray the world like it is with an idea of outraging enough people to make them change it.

Rant over. Love this site. There are a lot of people on it I'd love to get to know better. Hope it happens.

ddw


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 10:40 PM

Alice,

Thank you for the link.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Tucker
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 10:27 PM

Hey Mag, I actually saw that movie and yeah it sucked. It would be comical today.......like West Side Story or Hells Angels on Wheels. Sorry isn't it?


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 10:20 PM

Somebody quoted from the movie "Wild in the Streets;" ie, the porigin of the "Don't trust anybody over 30" line. May I remind those of my generation that the movie ended with the rock-star president bullying a little kid, who turned around and said, "We're gonna put everybody over 12 out of business."

Mom was the cause of blondie's problems, and the me too liberals were schmucks. The movie stank.

-- MA


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Alice
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 10:14 PM

A website with a list of Columbine High killed and injured and personal descriptions compiled by friends and family. Columbine High


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 08:33 PM

Thanks Catspaw.

This was a good idea, it does help a little.


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Subject: Lyr Add: LISTEN TO ME (Roger Gall)
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 08:29 PM

Listen to me

You listen to the wind,
You listen to the sea.
You even listen to the rain on your window,
Why won't you, listen to me?

You listen to the radio
You listen to your TV
You even listen to, the static,
Why won't you, listen to me?

It's not that what got to say is so profound,
It might be, but if you don't listen to the sound.
If you don't hear the show, you won't know what you're missing,
It's a waste of time you'll find, when nobody listens.

You listen to your walkman,
You listen to your CD.
You even listen to the traffic,
Why won't you listen to me?

You listen to your hair dryer,
You listen to your washing machine.
You even listen to the water in the attic
Why won't you listen to me?

If we get credit for what we have to say?
I would like to suggest another way.
You say, you have the way, you have the vision,
No not you, I'll give it to, the few that will listen.

You've got to listen, to the small print,
Just like you strain, your eyes to see.
Got to listen with, your glasses on,
That's the way I would like you to listen to me.

And I'll try to listen to you,
The way I would like you,
To listen to me.

Listen to me

Roger Gall 1997


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 08:08 PM

Hi Shambles---Go back up and read my post to EAST on4/22 @12:30 AM. Read East's post first. I like the way you phrase it and I agree we can't stop trying, but many of the answers, or all of them, probably lie with the young. Yeah, us old farts got ALL the answers; my generation was angered at the +30 set who didn't listen to what we were saying......Things may not have changed much in the ensuing years. Every generation says the hopes and answers for a better world are in the children and so we tune out what they say....Why hell, they're just kids. uh-huh.

Liked your post.

catspaw


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 07:53 PM

Just a small point. There was a TV programme here in the UK a litle while back, about the effect of violent computer games had (or not had) on children.

There was a child, about 12 years old, he was asked to describe and say what he thought about a game he had just been playing. He replied that, "you had run about shooting people and blowing things up, it was great, just like in real life".

Was he wrong? Does not art imitate life?

Could it be that by trying to shield our children, from a world that they see very clearly and in some ways can see clearer than us, just makes the problem worse?

For it is not they, that have to live in that world too?

Maybe they don't like it much either?

Maybe if we try to LISTEN to them more, we may understand a little better?


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Tucker
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 05:44 PM

I would like to make one point to those who are so anti gun. The worst mass murder in the United States by one person was not done by a gun, but by a disgruntled man at a girlfriend at a New York social club. One gallon of gasoline and a match ended the life of over 160 people. Folks, we can't control crazies, ok? It is easy to make poison gas, fire, bombs and even disease today. If a madman wants to make mayhem he can do it. It is easy to kill lots of people in the family car. What are we going to do? Ban everything? Live in an antiseptic world? Life is a risk. I feel for all who are victims of violence but before you start taking guns from my racks start with the video stores where the seeds are planted. The guns in my home are decoration. Some are from wars. They will kill no more. Can you say the same for the gallon of gasoline you think no one wants, sitting by your lawnmower?


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Tucker
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 05:28 PM

well said Hank


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Matthew B.
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 04:20 PM

Alice, the story you told of about the boy who broke your son's collar bone sent chills down my spine. Will we ever learn to stop ignoring the signs?


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: AuntBea
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 03:36 PM

The Pope is wrong. America is not a culture of murder. The world is. Doesn't he see in his own backyard.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Alice
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 03:04 PM

Cuillion, I was also thinking along the lines of what you have written. I was listening today to a friend of the two shooting students who had once been a member of their outcast group. He described on tv how they had a "hobby" of making pipe bombs and blowing them up in the back yard of a house where an older man they knew lived alone. He left their group when he realized he could no longer identify with their behavior. He said the police did know about a pipe bomb threat made by these same boys last year.

I couldn't help but think... wouldn't a parent know if your kid had a hobby of making pipe bombs? Why would a parent ignore a minor child's website on how to build bombs?

These kids could have been building instruments instead of bombs. They could have had a garage band practice in the garage last weekend instead of putting together the weapons they built for this event.

On top of what is happening to children in Yugoslavia, this has caused me many hours of lost sleep.

We, here on the Mudcat, are talking about giving kids lyrics and songs, and plans on how to build instruments. When I sang folk songs with my son's class recently, I talked to them about writing their own songs. They were in an African drum class, learning world folk music, and they all loved what they were doing there. I know we can help kids who are not our own children, but ultimately, they live at home with their own parents. My son is in the 6th grade now, and the boy who broke my son's collar bone is the same boy who, two years ago (4th grade), said he couldn't wait to join the army so he could kill people. The school can't change the home life of this kid.

PIE JESU

Pie Jesu,
Pie Jesu,
Qui tollis peccata mundi,
Dona eis requiem,
Dona eis requium.

Lord, have mercy,
Lord, have mercy,
You who take away the sins of the world,
Grant them peace,
Grant them peace.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 02:02 PM

Penny, you are welcome. Anna, thanks for the compliment. Cuillion, yours is the best advice I've seen on here. Among the debates over it all, you have narrowed it down to the essense of music, which has been the uniting force here at the Mudcat. You have helped me, at least, to focus on specifics which we can all implement and work to see a difference. Thank you and now that I know you're in Denver, look out! My sister and I just MIGHT show up with the JAM!

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Penny
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 01:47 PM

Thanks for the address, katlaughing. It's always hard to know what to say, but essential to let people know that they are cared for, and about.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Cuilionn
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 01:46 PM

I'm gang tae try an' wricht this wi'oot sae muckle Scots, sae mair folk will understand...bear wi' me if a wee bit creeps in.

Here's a thought: How many of our beloved and brilliant folk/blues heroes were, and are, "outsiders"?

WHAT IF these kids, so full of rage against those who ostracized them, had been given a nourishing diet of folk and blues music throughout their childhoods?

WHAT IF the gunner lads had learned to SING their pain, and learned to understand their alienation in the context of a vast heritage of musical expressions which enabled others' survival?

WHAT IF the songs of the Civil Rights and Labor movements, the horrific old murder ballads, the songs which help us celebrate (and long for) peace, and other songs which preach and teach about justice had been incorporated organically into the educational system and other social structures which guided and "raised up" these kids?

WHAT IF venues and instruments had been provided, and the schools and the larger community had made it possible for young people to articulate their pain creatively instead of destroying and being destroyed?

WHAT IF we still have the time and wherewithall to impliment these ideas HERE and NOW?!?

WHAT IF we tradition-bearers and musical innovators could be part of the work of transformation and healing all over the world, but most especially among our angry and suffering children?

WHAT IF we already ARE, and we take this situation not as a summons to paralysis, but as an powerful opportunity to infiltrate our communities further and bring hope and healing and the joy of creation back into the lives of our youth?!?

--Cuilionn, whae invites ye a' tae th' ceilidh o' comfort an' healin' which I'm havin' at ma seminary apartment here in Denver... I'll mak th' biscuits, ye bring th' JAM!!!


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 01:43 PM

If every one of us would look in our own communities for the services available to youth, and would offer our own time to spend with just one kid for a few hours a week, don't you think it would help? Some of us are doing it already, through being the best parents or teachers we can, through befriending our own kids' friends, or through other means. But if the Trenchcoat Mafia and other disenfranchised kids had more optimistic, loving adults who were truly interested in them, it might give them some hope. One on one, one kid at a time, is the best way to get at the heart of the problem. Allison


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: anna
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 01:27 PM

I wish I could say something that hasn't already been said, especially katlaughing's beautiful poem, but I can't. But, being the new kid, I wanted to say you all have expressed my horror, sympathy, and pain. My heart goes out to everyone experiencing this pain.

anna


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Indy Lass
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 01:05 PM

Guns are tools created by humans to easely cause damage to or put an end to the physical aspect of a living being. The use of this tool for "bad" or "good" is based on the reasoning capacity of a user relative to that user's own perspective of events. The gun helped the two boys who had chosen to kill escape the consequences of their actions in living society. Therefore, they can only be thought of as vengeful cowards.


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Rex
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 01:02 PM

These kids don't fit into any set patterns. So they get left out. They are alone and frustration festers into hate which festers into God knows what. You have to get kids involved in something that means something to them. Youth organizations are well structured for this and handy but are not the only answer. The kids need something to care about. The ones that don't fit neatly into our systems and organizations, we don't dare give up on them. Don't sweep them under the rug. Keep trying.

Rex


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 12:42 PM

Margie,

Used to be. It's probably been twenty years since I've shot and never more than a paper target or pop can. I did hit the bulls-eye, with every shot of an 8mm, one time when I was pissed at my ex-mother-in-law, BUT,of course, I never thoguht about using it on her, as children seem to think is okay these days.

Sorry, Bob, but those cases you mentioned are far outnumbered by the number of murders which do involve guns. My main point is, rocks, sticks, etc, are not designed specifically to kill; guns are.

kat


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Margo
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 12:29 PM

I'm with you, Hank. Outlawing guns isn't the answer. We have guns in our home. The 45's in our bedroom live in lock boxes that can only be opened by pressing a three of five buttons in the right sequence. The kids will never get into them. We never let them see us open the boxes, either.

I truly believe that the violence on television, in movies and computer games plays a part in desensitizing children to how horrible such acts really are. The graphic blood and guts killing appeals to a person's lower nature. Once used to a certain level of violence, it takes something more and more bloody to create the thrill. It's like a person's body getting used to a drug, and more drug is needed to create the desired effect.

I really believe that the way back to sanity is through the law. Tighter restrictions on what can be depicted. Restrictions on what kids can see. I'm not for cencorship either, but consider: The freedoms we have in this country ar restricted by moral laws. It's against the law to commit murder. Kids say, "its a free country, I can do what I want." Not quite, kids. You don't have the right to commit mayhem.

I like target shooting. I think it's fun. So Kat, you're a regular Annie Oakly? I wish we could go shooting together. But "empty pop bottles is all we would kill".

Margie


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Subject: RE: A Song or Two for Colorado's Victims
From: Bob Schwarer
Date: 22 Apr 99 - 12:07 PM

Over in Tampa/ St. Pete a little bit back some teenagers tossed rocks off an overpass onto the interstate & managed to kill a woman. Someone else was driving too slow to suit the people in the car behind so they followed them & beat them with shovels. A kid wore black to school yesterday & was threatened.

Try to disipline a kid & HRS(the State) jumps in & puts you in jail & takes the kid. And the kids have learned to play the "I'll call the cops" game. Three boys killed one of the boy's father because they got pissed. Two boys and a girl killed the girl's mother. same reason.

This is what happens locally & is probably a reflection of everywhere else. BTW no guns used in any of this.

Bob Schwarer


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