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Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives

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JUMP ROPE CHANTS
THREE SIX NINE


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GUEST,Natasha Woods 30 May 07 - 03:59 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 31 May 07 - 12:41 PM
Azizi 29 Jun 07 - 07:44 PM
Azizi 29 Jun 07 - 08:21 PM
Azizi 29 Jun 07 - 08:35 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 29 Jun 07 - 11:20 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 29 Jun 07 - 11:24 PM
EuGene 30 Jun 07 - 12:03 AM
Mo the caller 30 Jun 07 - 02:26 AM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 06:27 AM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 06:43 AM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 06:50 AM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 07:05 AM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 07:25 AM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 07:55 AM
wysiwyg 30 Jun 07 - 10:31 AM
Mo the caller 30 Jun 07 - 12:11 PM
Mo the caller 30 Jun 07 - 12:21 PM
Mo the caller 30 Jun 07 - 12:30 PM
Mo the caller 30 Jun 07 - 12:32 PM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 02:10 PM
EuGene 30 Jun 07 - 10:32 PM
EuGene 30 Jun 07 - 10:36 PM
Azizi 30 Jun 07 - 11:05 PM
Mo the caller 01 Jul 07 - 07:21 AM
Azizi 01 Jul 07 - 07:43 AM
Azizi 01 Jul 07 - 10:10 AM
EuGene 01 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM
Azizi 01 Jul 07 - 04:36 PM
GUEST,EuGene 01 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM
Azizi 01 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM
GUEST,EuGene 01 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM
GUEST 01 Jul 07 - 05:26 PM
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Mo the caller 01 Jul 07 - 06:18 PM
EuGene 01 Jul 07 - 10:23 PM
Mo the caller 02 Jul 07 - 02:12 AM
GUEST,aah 10 Jul 07 - 11:20 PM
Azizi 10 Jul 07 - 11:59 PM
Azizi 11 Jul 07 - 12:13 AM
GUEST,celtaddict at the library 11 Jul 07 - 09:36 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,Natasha Woods
Date: 30 May 07 - 03:59 PM

Hand Jives I've learned as a kid living in VA. Please Post some that you know!!!

Down Down Baby


Down down baby, down by the rollercoaster
Sweet sweet baby, mama never let you go
Shimmy shimmy coca pop, shimmy shimmy pow!

I like coffee, I like tea,
I like a color boy and he likes me
So step back white boy, you don't shine
I'll get the color boy to beat yo' behind

Let get the rhythm of the hands (clap, clap)
We've got the rhythm of the hands (clap, clap)

Let's get the rhythm of the feet (stomp,stomp)
We've got the rhythm of the feet (stomp, stomp

Lets get the rhythm of the head DING-DONG
(move head side to side)
We've got the rhythm of the head DING-DONG (move head side to side)

Let's get the rhythm of the HOT-DOG
(move body around)
We've got the of the HOT-DOG
(move body around)

Put all together and and what do you get....

clap, clap, stomp, stomp, ding-dong, hot-dog

Say them all backwards and what do you get....

hot-dog, ding-dong, stomp, stomp, clap, clap!



(To the tune of I Believe I Can Fly)

I believe I can fly
I got shot by the F.B.I
All I wanted was some chicken wings
and a little bit of collad greens
I believe I can soar
I got a beaten at the geocery store




I don't wanna go to mexico


I don't wann go to mexico no more more more
There's a big fat police man at the door door door
He'll grab you by the collar, ask you for a dollar
I don't wanna go to mexico no more more more
So shut the door!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 May 07 - 12:41 PM

refresh.

Azizi out there somewhere?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:44 PM

There is no tellin why some children's rhymes change the way they do.

Take the first example posted by GUEST,Natasha Woods. The "I like coffee, I like tea" verse dates back at least as far as the 1920s. This line is included in an example entitled "Vinie" that is found in Thomas W. Talley's 1922 collection "Negro Folk Rhymes". In that   book that verse is given as

"I loves coffee, an' I loves tea.
I axes you, Vinie, does you love me?"

["Negro Folk Rhymes", Kennikat Press edition, 1968 p. 130]

-snip-

By the 1950s, this verse was chanted while jumping rope. The standard words to the rhyme were:
I like {or "love"} coffee
I like tea
I like {insert a boy's name}
and he likes me

{or "I like the boys/and the boys like me"}

Another form of this rhyme was:
I like {love} coffee
I like tea
I want {a boy or a girl's name}
to jump in with me {meaning to jump in the rope along with the another person}

But at some point, this verse became a handclap/imitative movement rhyme. The most widely printed version of this form of this rhyme is "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pa" {or puff, or pop or some similar sounding name. Guest Natasha Woods' example-excluding that 2nd verse-is the "standard" version of this rhyme.

However, for some reason or reasons, by the late 1980s, racial confrontational lines had become a standard part of many examples of this rhyme.

Natasha Woods gives this standardized racial confrontational verse as her 2nd verse. These words are found-in the same way-in examples that I've collected as a result of direct interactions with African American school age girls, female teens, and adult women, AND from examples posted on various Internet websites [including Mudcat]. The only slight differences is that the person speaking [a Black girl?] either says " I like a black boy" or "I like a colored boy" or "I like a color boy". "Color boy" here is probably a result of folk etymology since the referent "colored" is not used any more, and probably is not a term that children know.

One example that I collected from the Internet has the speaker {presumably a girl saying "step back white girl/you don't shine/ I'mma get a Black boy to beat your behind". However, this change in gender may be due to folk etymology. I've also collected an example that says "I love a pretty boy and he loves me" and then continues with the other "fixed" wording. I believe that there are probably more folk process changes like that. But where did this confrontational racial referent verse come from and why?

I believe that the "I Love Coffee. I Love Tea" rhyme has its roots in African American communities. I also believe that the racial confronational verse is also of African American origin. What is interesting to me is that this children's rhyme is among the few African American "contemporary" rhymes that I have collected that almost always mention race.

It's my position that this addition to this originally non-confrontative rhyme is the result of and reflect racial tensions that occurred because of school integrations {and perhaps less likely, the integration of neighborhoods, and other social orbanizations that children of different races may frequent}.

And with regard to the lines "step back white boy/you don't shine", it's my position that "shine" is related to "glowing brightly". Therefore, in the context of this rhyme it means that the boy in question is not "all that" or "is no big deal" [substitute the latest putdown slang lingo]. I definitely don't think that 'shine" here is the same as "Shine", the colloquial and sometimes perjorative referent for Black people.

So, Guest Natasha Woods, that's my sense of what's up with this rhyme. I'd love to hear from other folks as to what they think is up with it.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:21 PM

Natasha, sorry for jumping into this discussion without first apologizing.

I'm sorry that I'm just responding to your May 30, 2007 post. And I'm sorry no one else did. But I'm here now. Hopefully, other people will join in this thread. Natasha, I hope you will check out this thread and give me and other folks a holla back.

Btw, Natasha I find it interesting that you use the term "handjives" for handclaps.

I'm from the Eastern part of the USA {New Jersey} and have lived in the near-Midwest {Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania} for longer than I lived in the East. And I have never heard these rhymes or their performance activity called handjives by any Black people. However I have heard of the song Willie And The Hand Jive . So I guess there was a time when some folks called them or the routines done to the chants "hand jive".

The African American children I interact with in Pittsburgh call them "songs". Or they say that they are doing "handclaps". I've never heard them say they are "playing handclaps". Being much older than these children, I call them rhymes, though I also called them "songs" when I was growing up.

**

Natasha, with regard to the second example that you posted, this used to be the bomb in Pittsburgh {meaning it was way hot! meaning it was real popular. This was waay back in the day-in 1998 or thereabouts -when you could hear R. Kelly singing his hit song I Believe I Can Fly on just about any urban R&B/Hip Hop radio station at any time.

The 2nd example that you posted Natasha is a parody of that record. Here's a very similar one that I collected in 1999 from school age African American boys in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania:

I believe I can fly.

I got chased by the FBI. (or "I'm being chased by the FBI").

It's all because of those collards greens

that I ate with those chicken wings.

I believe I can fly.

See me running through that open door.

I believe I can fly.

I believe I can fly.

-snip-

Your guess is as good as mine where this version came from.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of a comedy routine that was shown on one of those BET comedy shows {"BET"="Black Entertainment Television"}. But that's just a guess.

I really don't have a clue how this song became sooo popular and how it spread-well-wherever it spread.

I should mention that in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania the children's version of "I Believe I Can Fly" was a song. Nobody ever did handclap routines or steppin or any other kind of movement to it. Boys as well as girls sung this song with lots of enthusiasm. I said "sung" instead of "sing" because I've found that few if any Black school age kids know this song now...

Natasha, I'd love to know if you remember this song from now-or from "then". And I'd love to know when "then" was for you... Also, what is your race? I ask that question because I'm curious if this song is or was known by people who aren't African Americans.

Some people don't like to bring up race. But in the context of documenting what rhymes are {and were} known and how they are {and were} performed, it is alright {and I think it's important} to ask questions about race so that information about these rhymes can be documented as fully as possible.

In any event, best wishes, Natasha and thanks for posting your examples.

Azizi


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:35 PM

Hey, Natasha!

I've collected versions of the handclap rhyme "I Don't Want To Go To Mexico" from African American children {mostly school age girls ages 6-12 years} though school age boys also know it. Up to about age 8 years boys wouldn't mind showing me how to do the handclap routine that "goes with" for this "song". But after that age, most boys say that these songs and handclaps {the performance activity} are for girls*.

I've also collected examples of this rhyme from various Internet sites-including my own website Cocojams. See this page of that website for more examples and commentary:

http://www.cocojams.com/handclap_rhymes_example_0104.htm

* I found that {elementary] school age boys will, however, join in {but not usually start} competitive handclaps like "Strolla Ola Ola"{"Stella Ella Ola" and other such names}.

See this Mudcat thread about that rhyme thread.cfm?threadid=77066 "Kids chant Stella Ola Ola / Stella Ella Ola"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:20 PM

Now WHY????? would a NATASHA WOODS (never before posting) make a complicated procedure....first-time posting.....
be replied by AZIZI
our bestest Nigress Emeritis?????

Huummmmmmmm.......

Give one cause to wonder........

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

do, dew, due, wonder


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:24 PM

ANZISI

Don't get me wrong girl, you are a breath of fresh morning dew in the stale fetid smoke of a UK infested pub.

Keep up your contributions....they ARE VALUABLE to keeping this place AMIERICAN.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: EuGene
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 12:03 AM

I grew up for part of my early years in the remote Ozarks area of North Arkansas where there were no African Americans. Yet in the 1950's and early 1960's a variation of that "I like coffee, I like tea" song was a common jump rope ditty in our area that went like this:

"I went down to Granpa's farm,
Billy goat chased me 'round the barn.
Chased me up an apple tree;
This is what he said to me:

I like coffee, I like tea,
I like pretty girls, they like me.
Hurry! Hurry! Kiss me quick,
Here comes Granny with a stick!"
(clap!) (Clap!)

This ditty ended with two loud hand claps. It was sung to that tune about "Down at Papa Joe's" . . . I don't know the name that song, but as kids we could always start with a black Eb key on a piano and easily pick it out using mostly the black keys.

Another jump rope ditty that I vaguely recall the beginning to:

"Oh, I'm a pretty little Dutch girl,
As pretty as pretty can be.
. . . . . "

The above ditty was sung to a tune just like the tune that played at the end of some cartoons, just before Porky Pig stuttered "Th..Th..Th..That's all, folks!"

I had seven younger sisters, did a lot of jump rope twirling (that's what we called it), and I used to hear lots of those little ditties when the girls were jumping rope, but I just can't remember any others right now.

By the way, I did some jump rope, but that wasn't my forte . . . however, I could beat most of 'em at jacks (my larger hand help me beat 'em on "fourzies" and above) and hop scotch.

Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:26 AM

In London in the late 40s / early 50s we played 'skipping' with the the rhymne
I like coffee, I like tea , I like --- in with me.
I don't like coffee, I don't like tea, I don't like --- in with me.

At the time it was an all white school, there had not been much imigration then. I didn't skip much, I assume that the first player called the second in, and then jumped out herself, but am not sure.

The Hand Jive that I remember didn't involve clapping, it was a rhythmic hand movement popular in the 80s or 90s. We used to watch a TV programme called 'Blockbusters' were pairs of students competed to answer questions (with the initial letters of the answer given, the answer giving a block in a noughts and crosses type grid). At the end of the programme they showed a shot of the students in the audience doing a hand-jive in unison to the signature tune.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 06:27 AM

Gargoyle,

I've learned not to be surprised by anything you say.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 06:43 AM

EuGene, thanks for those examples! Thanks also for including demographical information.

I've never seen or heard that version of "I love coffee/I love tea". I'm interested in the way that the example starts out with an introductory verse before moving to the "I love coffee/I love tea" lines. I've noticed that a number of African American handclap rhymes start with short introductory phrases. Two examples are-"Shame Shame Shame"; "Zing Zing Zing and ah one two three".

I'm wondering if this billygoat chasing rhyme or the line "and this is what he said to me" is used to introduce other children's rhymes that you {or others} remember or do you remember it just from this rhyme?

**
I have seen lines in some children's rhymes about grandma hitting someone or being hit herself with a hickory stick. For example there's this verse:

"Grandma, grandma sick in bed
called the doctor and the doctor said.
Get up grandma, you aint sick
All you need is a hickory stick.

This is from Talley's "Negro Folk Rhymes" and I've seen it published elsewhere, though Talley may be the oldest printed source there is.

Children chant this verse nowadays by rote memory without thinking about its lyrics or the historical information it contains. However, I believe that this 19th century or older verse shows how slave masters treated older enslaved people who were ill {and, by extension, any enslaved person who was ill}. Their illnesses would be discounted and if the sick person didn't get up from bed, they'd be beaten by a hickory stick.

Here's a widely used example of this verse which I found in a number of versions of "I Love Coffee/I Love Tea" in Pittsburgh, PA area -though in theat area children {at least African American children who I've known and interacted with} call that handclap rhyme "Down Down Baby":

Mama, Mama I feel sick
Send for the doctor quick quick quick
Doctor, Doctor, will I die?
Close your eyes and count to five.
1-2-3-4-5
I'm alive!

-snip-

Sometimes-for some reason a child {usually a girl ages 5-12 years} would add after the "I'm alive" line "and on channel five".

I've found this verse-with & without the channel five part-on various Internet sites. I've also seen the ending "1-2-3-4-5. Too late, I died."


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 06:50 AM

Eugene, is this the "pretty Dutch girl" rhyme that you can't remember?

I AM A PRETTY LITTLE DUTCH GIRL

I am a pretty little Dutch girl.
As pretty as can be, be, be
And all the boys in the baseball team
Go crazy over me, me, me

My boy friend's name is Fatty,
He comes from Senoratti
With turned up toes and a pimple on his nose,
And this is how the story goes:

My mother sent me to the shop,
And told me not to stay, stay, stay
I met my boyfriend on the way
And stayed till Christmas Day, Day, Day .

First he gave me peaches,
Then he gave me pears
Then he gave me 25 cents
To kiss him on the stairs, stairs, stairs.
I gave him back his peaches,
I gave him back his pears,
I gave him back his 25 cents
And kicked him down the stairs, stairs, stairs.

One day when I was walking,
I saw my true love talking,
To a pretty little girl
With a strawberry curl,
And this is what he said:
I will T-A-K-E take you
to the P-A-R-K park,
I will K-I-S-S kiss you
In the D—R-K,
I will L-O-V-E love you
All the T-M-E time,
And the wedding bells will chime

"This light-hearted love story would be recognized as American even if the earliest recording did not come from New York. It appears to have arrived in Britain in 1959, when it was first noted, and it spread through the country like wildfire. A girl fround Twickenham taught it to the children of her new school in Wilmslow. A girl from
London SE8 taught it to the children in her new school in Worchester. A girl brought it back to her school in Spennymoor from the children's ward of Durham County Hospital where 'every was playing it". …But oral tradition, under pressure could not preserve the unfamiliar words, which diversified charmingly. The boy friend Fatty, originally from Cincinatti, is now from "Sixolatti, "Switzerlatti", "Madagassi", ot 'an Irish Naafi",; or his identiy iow "Tony from the land of Palony', or 'Shallow from Portomallow', or 'Martin from the Isle of Tartan', or "Sailor from Venezueloa' {it seems that rhyming a boy's name with a home town is part of the game}; or he has 'a red, red nose and cherries on his toes", or 'a pickle on his nose and ten black toes, 'or bubble gum feet that smell so sweet".

The text given here is an assemblage of all the possible component parts of the story which stem from different places. Children most often combine the first, second, and fifth parts , or the first, third, and fourth, In the very many versions collected almost every combination has been found, except all five parts in one version."

{text & example found in Iona and Peter Opies, "The Singing Game" p.452}


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 07:05 AM

Here's one variant form of "Pretty Little Dutch Girl" that I collected in 2004 in Pittsburgh, PA. The three African American girls {ages 7 and 8} performed this rhyme as a three person handclap {the three girls stood in a right triangle formation and took turns clapping and slapping each others hands}. The introductory lines "Zing Zing Zing/at the bottom of the sea" were performed differently than the "real" rhyme.{Each of the girls held another's pinky finger and did some swaying left to right motion with it}

Also, note the racial put-down in the ending line:

I AM A LITTLE SECOND GRADE

Zing Zing Zing
at the bottom of the sea.
I am a little __ second grade *
as pretty as can __ be be.
And all the boys around my house
go crazy over __ me me.

My boyfriend's name is __ Yellow.
He comes from Ala__bama
with 25 toes
and a pickle on his nose
and this is how the story goes.
One day I was ah __ walkin
I saw my boyfriend __ talking
to a very pretty girl
with cherry pie curls And this is what she said
"I L-O-V-E __ love you."
"I K-I-S-S __ kiss you."
"I A-D-O-R-E __ adore you"
So S-T-O-P. STOP!
1-2-3-4
Get your black hands off of me!

-snip-
The "___" indicates one beat before recitation begins again.

The "second grade" {meaning "second grader"} was used to denote what year most of the girls were. In response to my question about this line, I learned that the girls change that line to reflect which grade they are in. This performance of this rhyme was done in Oct 2004. The rhyme actually started with the girls saying "I am a first grade". But they started over again because they remembered that {two of them} were now in the 2nd grade.

On the lines "get your black hands off of me" the girls try to be the first ones to quickly snatch their hands away from the other players.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 07:25 AM

Mo, thanks also for your post in this thread!

When you wrote "I like coffee, I like tea , I like --- in with me.", do the dashes denote a person's name or nickname?

Also, I'm curious about your rememberances of the British television show. Are you saying that people in the audience clapped their own hands and slapped their chest or thighs to the beat-similar to "pattin juba?"* Or did they turn to face a person sitting next to them and alternately clap both of their own hands or one or both hands of the person they were facing? I presume that they stayed in seated. Is this right?

And, I'm assuming that the audience was made up of all or mostly White people-is this true? And were they children or pre-teens or adults?

* See this Wikipedia article about "pattin juba":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juba_dance


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 07:55 AM

Oops!

I made a mistake in the example that I wrote of the children's parody of "I Believe I Can Fly".

Here's the real words to that example:

The 2nd example that you posted Natasha is a parody of that record. Here's a very similar one that I collected in 1999 from school age African American boys in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania:

I believe I can fly.

I got chased by the FBI. (or "I'm being chased by the FBI").

It's all because of those collards greens

that I ate with those chicken wings.

I believe I can soar.

See me running through that open door.

I believe I can fly.

I believe I can fly.

I believe I can fly.

-snip-

This song uses the same tune and phrasing as the R. Kelly song.
For instance, the word "door" is elongated to dor-or-or".


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:31 AM

Are you saying that people in the audience clapped their own hands and slapped their chest or thighs to the beat-similar to "pattin juba?"* Or did they turn to face a person sitting next to them and alternately clap both of their own hands or one or both hands of the person they were facing? I presume that they stayed in seated. Is this right?


The "Hand Jiving" I recall from school was that the person was seated and the hands were dancing, so to speak-- purposeful and graceful waving of hands being held up in the air at about chest level. Not a patting game, or even necessarily a partnered activity. I keep picturing it as a thing to do while riding around in a car... maybe that was just us, my group.....

Maybe in high school? So that would be late 60's in the north suburban Chicago area. (Not a very diverse area at that time.)

There was a song "Hand Jive," and I'd love to be able to see the group that did it. Were they demonstrating it? Lost now in memory... The chorus: "Hand Jive.... Hand Jive. Hand Jive-- doing that crazy Hand Jive." On the radio. On TV.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Hand Jive on 'Blockbusters'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 12:11 PM

The audience of the show was probably late teens, as were the contestants. They were shown at the end of the programme, doing something complicated with their hands, not touching each other, but all doing the same. Sat in rows, in their seats
One move I remember, they had their hands in font of them, palms down, then crossed one above the other once or twice without touching, then the other above. No clapping that I can remember.


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Subject: RE: Hand Jive
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 12:21 PM

Yes they were mostly white I think.
I've looked at your link and it has a link to hand jive and I was reminded of another move, cup L hand under R elbow and shake R fist and v.v.
It was all very rhythmic


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Subject: RE: Dutch girl
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 12:30 PM

Azizi, you quote the Opies saying that
My boy friend's name is Fatty,
He comes from Senoratti
With turned up toes and a pimple on his nose,
And this is how the story goes:
came to the UK in 1959.

It seems to have some relation to the 2 ball rhyme we said in 1954 (I had just started secondary school in London, age 11)
You start with the letter A and all the names have to begin with that letter
e.g.
My name is Alice
My husbands name is Arthur
We live in Aldershot
And we sell apples

You go through the alphabet while throwing and catching the balls, if you cant think of something or you drop the balls it's the next ones turn, and when they are out you go start again with the verse you were out on.
Our version had rythmn but didn't have to rhyme.


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Subject: RE: skipping to 'coffee and tea'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 12:32 PM

Yes, the --- was some-ones name. the first skipper called another in, then in the next verse jumped out herself (I think)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:10 PM

Thanks, Mo.

I remember playing "A My Name Is" in Atlantic City, New Jersey, in the 1950s.

It was chanted as you described though I'm betting that the standardized names and objects that kids used for the alphabet differed around the world.

For instance, I remember singing:
A my name is Alice
My husband's name is Al
We live in Atlantic City
Where they sell apples/

{My name wasn't Azizi back then. If it had been, I would have used that name}.

Also, we sang this when we played individual ball bouncing {bounce ball on the ground,and catch it. A variant of this was to bounce the ball underneath one leg and then catch it and then alternate by bouncing the ball under the other leg}.

We never sang this when we played catch with other people.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: EuGene
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:32 PM

AZ: A lot of activity since I was on yesterday. I didn't know anything about the grandma and hickory stick verse, but since it apparently came from slavery times, it could be more specific to African-American kids.

But, mention of the hickory stick did remind me or that old School days song about ". . . readin', writin' and 'rithmetic, taught by the tune of the hick'ry stick."

I have a vague memory of one that had the line "Teacher hit me with a ruler" but I just can't get a handle on the thing. Maybe it will come to me later.

And, the "Pretty little Dutch girl" verses that you and Mo listed do seem familiar to this old memory, especially where she tells about a boyfriend from Cincinatti, and best I recall, he had a wart on his nose.

Anyhoo, the story line may well vary in different geographical areas, but it follows the same basic pattern. I think that is the common thread that ties a lot of these little kids ditties together as they evolved over time as they spread from school to school and neighborhood to neighborhood. Also, Az, like you noted, often the origin of the little song and the meaning behind the original words gets lost over time.

Some other little songs from back in the 50's & 60's (when I used to hear them . . . some may still be around?):

"Annie had a steamboat,
the steamboat had a bell,
the steamboat went to heaven,
and annie went to . . .

Hell . . .o operator,
give me number nine,
if you don't,
I'll kick you in the . . .

Behind . . .the refridgerator,
there was a piece of glass.
Annie sat down on it,
and it cut her on the . . .

As . s . s . .k me no more questions,
and I'll to you no more lies.
??
??

That's all I can remember on that one.

Another common one we used to chant teasingly when fellow elementary school student got sweet on each other:

"(boy'sname) and (girl's name) sittin' in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love,
Next comes marriage,
Then comes (boy's name),
Pushing a baby carriage."

Lastly, I remember a "nasty" chant us boys would do at about 7 or 8 years old (sung to the 7 Dwarfs' work song):

"Whistle while you work,
Hitler was a jerk.
Mussolini yanked his weenie,
Now it will not squirt."

Maybe, as this thread progresses I might think of some more.

Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: EuGene
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:36 PM

Oh, it just now popped into my mind that the "teacher hit me with a ruler" thing was sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic". Heaven only knows how that tune came to be used for a song here in the South with all the red necks running around fighting the Civil War even yet!

Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:05 PM

Hey, Eugene!

That's the first time I heard that Annie was the one with the steamboat. I've heard about Miss Suzie or Miss Susie, Miss Lucy, Miss Molly, Miss Mary, and I think I also heard about Miss Sally, having a steamboat {or a tugboat or even a sailboat}. But Annie?? Hey, why not? :o}

With regard to "teacher hit me with a ruler" if you're interested in reading some other examples of what I call "teacher taunts", check out this Mudcat thread: thread.cfm?threadid=2795#1441821 "Heigh Ho, Heigh Ho, I Bit the Teacher's Toe!"

You may also want to check out the Teacher Taunts page on my website:
www.cocojams.com

**

Also, there's a number of "___ had a steamboat" rhymes on the schoolyard games page of this website:

http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

I also have some examples of "Miss Susie Had A Steamboat" on the Handclap & Jumprope Rhymes page of my website.

:o)


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Subject: my name is..
From: Mo the caller
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 07:21 AM

I seem to remember that we played this juggling two balls, not throwing them to each other, it maybe depended where we were. If we were in a playground, we might have bounced them, or if there was a blank wall we could have thrown them against the wall, otherwise just into the air.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 07:43 AM

Good morning, Mo! Or good whatever time of day where you are!

Is you last post regarding A My Name Is?

If so, it occurred to me this morning that we also did this while jumping rope. I mean individual jump rope, not group jumping rope with two people turning and one person or more than one person jumping in the middle.

Btw, in his June 30th 12:03 AM post EuGene {"from the remote Izarks area of North Arkansas" [USA]} said that the term that they used for "turning rope" was "twirling rope".

He also referred to these rhymes or songs as "ditties" but somehow I don't think that children or adults called them ditties.

EuGene, what do you remember folks calling these compositions then? And do you know what children in that area call them nowadays?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 10:10 AM

For the sake of full disclosure, I want to indicate that for the last two and one half years I have been working on a book of children's rhymes. This book will include examples of specific types of rhymes. This book will also include commentary about the structures, text, performance activities of children's rhymes, and meanings {both etymological and psycho-social meanings} of selected rhymes. This book will also include my comments and other's comments about the roles of the mass media and the Internet in the creation and popularization of certain children's rhymes.

I have contacted individual Mudcat members for permission to use the examples & comments that they have posted on this thread and other Mudcat threads in this proposed book and also on my website, Cocojams. [However, most of the post on Cocojams come from visitor submissions]. I have also contacted Mudcat's owner and Mudcat's administrator and received permission to include posts from Guests in my book. It is my intention to continue to ask Mudcat members for permission for me to use selected examples & comments that they have posted on this and on other Mudcat threads.

I have mentioned this project before on a couple of Mudcat threads including at the end of this post: thread.cfm?threadid=81350#1493554

Prior to that post {and I believe before I talked to Joe Offer and Max Seigel about this project}, I started a Mudct thread specifically referring to this project and my desire to get permission to use selected examples & comments from folks posting here.

Also, for the sake of full disclosure, I readily admit that not only does posting on threads such as this one helps me gather examples and information, it also helps me to formulate my thoughts about this subject.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I enjoy reading children's rhymes & cheers and I like seeing children perform these rhymes & cheers.
I also enjoy collecting children's rhymes and doing "detective work" trying to figure out the source materials and the meanings of slang and other words & phrases used in specific rhymes. I like conversing with others about children's rhymes and cheers. And I consider collecting, documenting, and sharing examples of children's rhymes as one of my "purposes of being".

But to the extent that my working on a book on children's rhymes and my having a website on children's rhymes means that I have an ulterior motive in posting to Mudcat threads on children's rhymes and starting Mudcat threads on children's rhymes threads, I plead guilty as charged.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: EuGene
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM

Az: Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to muddy the water by calling those little jump rope songs "ditties" . . . that's just a descriptive word that I used here to talk about them.

I don't recall that we used any sort of name for them except something like "The Annie's steamboat song" or "Grandpa's farm". Best I recall was that we had names for them like that and nothing (like the word "ditty")that was used to identify the genre of songs.

Also, I lived in several different places as an elementary student, including Little Rock which was in Central Arkansas (1st & 2nd grade), here in the Ozarks (Kindergarten & 3rd grade), Faifax, VA (4th - 6th grade), York, ME (7th Grade), then returned here in the 8th grade through high school. Of course inasmuch as I was the oldest of 11 kids, I heard all the little songs and chants up until I grew up and lit out on my own.

I don't recall that there was a whole lot of differences in the kids' songs and chants between Arkansas, Virginia, and Maine, at least the common ones like Annie's steamboat, "When you see a hearse go by", and "pretty little Dutch girl" which seemed to be pretty common everywhere. I don't recall hearing the "Grandpa's Farm" song anywhere but here, even in different versions as "I like coffee, I like tea" with different lead-in verses. Of course, I could have just as easily not heard some of the songs & chants, although they may have been sung in all of the areas where we lived.

Some "ditties" I don't recall hearing as a small child, but would hear them often after I had gotten out of high school . . . one of those that comes to mind is

"Nobody loves me,
Everybody hates me,
I think I'll just eat worms.
. . .
?" (don't know the rest)

another that I didn't hear until my late teens was the one about "Greasy grimy gopher guts"

The above two could well have been around for a while, but had not reached our geographic area until about the time my youngest siblings were going through elementary school. I don't recall ever hearing either in VA or ME, but could have just missed them.

We had a song in Virginia the words which I can't recall, but it started out, "We are the Crumb Bums". It had several verses and a chorus which would name a different one of us 4th grade boys each time the chorus was sung. Each of us was given an name line (by the other boys) that rhymed with our name and was inserted at the beginning of a chorus verse . . each time the chorus was sung, a diferent one of us boys was so "headlined". I went by the diminuative, Gene, in those days so, when it came timne for me to be named in the chorus, I was:

"Gene, the Bean,
The rotten tangerine"

Since we were supposed to be "Crumb Bums", we each had less than complimentary two-liners like above that rhymed with our name, always "composed" by all the boys except for the one being so named.
I remember hearing some grade school boys singing something with the same tune and very similar words when I was in high school after we had moved back to Arkansas.

Gosh, there were so many little "ditties" that kids would sing as I was growing up, and I know that I am omitting a lot of them . . . too many years have gone by and memories fade. But, when I do suddenly recall a few words or a tune used for one of them, it sometimes comes back to my mind. At least this thread has me to thinking. Also, as I visit with my sisters (scattered about the USA) I will ask them to help me recall this stuff.

Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 04:36 PM

EuGene,

Here's the rest of the "Nobody Likes Me" rhyme:

Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
Guess I'll go eat worms,
Long, thin, slimy ones; Short, fat, juicy ones,
Itsy, bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms.

Down goes the first one, down goes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm.
Up comes the first one, up comes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm.

-snip-

That version and some other versions of this rhyme are posted on: http://www.bussongs.com/songs/nobody_likes_me_worms.php


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,EuGene
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM

Az: You the man! Obviously you have been working on this a long time as you already have most of this stuff in your archives. Put me down to buy one of those books whenever you do publish it!!

Me and all my sisters can have a Helluva good time chantin' this stuff at our next family reunion. It will definately add a great new touch to our usual karaoke entertainment. Wow!!

Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM

Well, actually EuGene, I'm a wo-man.

:o)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,EuGene
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM

P.S. The younger 6 - 12 year old nieces & nephews, cousins one removed, etc. won't know what to think when us "kids" in our 50's and 60's start jivin' with this stuff . . . maybe some of us geezers will even jump rope to these playgroung songs and chants. Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:26 PM

OOPS! Guess I missed that somewhere along the line. Around here we say "You the man!" for guy and "Wow, it's Wonder Woman!" for the gals.

So, "Wow, it's Wonder Woman!"

Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 06:10 PM

AMAZING - the worm song found in the Digital Tradition!!! WOW!!!

EAT WORMS

http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=1786

Yep, look at that low number, its been round awhile


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Mo the caller
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 06:18 PM

Hi again. We knew the worm rhyme in london in the early 50's.
The first 3 lines much as you posted
Then something about
... sticks to your teeth and goes down your throat with a (make a slurping sound).

I'd never heard of gopher guts till I joined Mudcat, must be American.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: EuGene
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 10:23 PM

Mo, we eat possum, pork brains, and chitlins (chitterlings) 'round here, so one might surmise that gopher guts may also be standard fare as well. Eu


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Mo the caller
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 02:12 AM

Euuuu! indeed


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,aah
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:20 PM

WHAT IS THE SONG THAT GOES ..IN THE LAND OF FRANCE WHERE THE ALLIGATORS DANCE. I DON'T NO THE REST


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:59 PM

GUEST,aah, here are some examples from http://blogs.herald.com/dave_barrys_blog/2005/05/a_readers_plea.html that may be similar to the rhyme that you've asked about:


I was born in Florida, so I think this must be the Florida version

There's a place in France
Where the alligators dance
One didn't dance, so they shot him in the pants
The pants that he wore cost a dollar ninety-four
So the alligator couldn't wear pants anymore
-Neilman ; May 27, 2005

**

I must have grown up with the cleanest version possible...very similar to the version from Florida:

There's a place in France
where the alligators dance
But the dance they do was invented by Magoo
and Magoo couldn't dance so they shot him in the pants
and the pants he wore cost a dollar ninety four,
plus tax, cha cha cha.

Of course, I grew up thinking the "Pina Colada song" was the "green enchilada song" LOL
-BelovedLamb; May 27, 2005

**
There's a place in France
Where the naked ladies dance
There's a hole in the wall
Where the boys can see it all.
-Sherrie Holcomb; May 27, 2005

**

There's a place in France
Where the ladies wear no pants
But the boys don't care
'Cause they like to see them bare.
-Sherrie Holcomb; May 27, 2005

**

There's a place in France where the naked ladies dance
There's a whole in the wall so the men can see it all
But the men don't care 'cause they wear no underwear
-Ryan ; May 27, 2005

**

All the girls in France
Do the hootchie-cootchie dance.
There's a hole in the wall
Where the men can see it all.

We also sang (same tune)

All the girls in Spain
Dance nekkid in the rain.
There's a hole in the wall
Where the men can see it all.

Note, in the above verse, naked must be pronounced NEKKID, or it simply does not work. Not here in Texas, anyway.
-LadyBug ; May 27, 2005

**
there's a place in france
where the alligators dance
but the pants they wore
were a dollar ninety four (PLUS tax)

this must be the absolute cleanest possible version. i grew up in a part of LA that makes me a "valley girl," always a source of amusement.
-kathy ; May 27, 2005


And there are many more including the "In The Land Of Mars" and "In The Land Of Oz" rhymes such as

What about this song that is burned in to my
memory:


In the land of mars
where the women smoke cigars
every breath they take
is enough to kill a snake

When the snake is dead
the put diamonds in his head
when the diamonds break
it's in 1968.
-Joe E O ; May 27, 2005

**

I think you are all wrong (well, I only read half of them) but it goes:

In the land of Oz
Where the ladies smoke cigars
Every breath they take is enough to kill a snake
When the snakes are dead
They put roses in their head
When the roses die
They put diamonds in their eye
when the diamonds break
It is 1958
-Sarah; June 9, 2005


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:13 AM

Here's three more examples from http://blogs.herald.com/dave_barrys_blog/2005/05/a_readers_plea.html {and there's lots more} but I thought these were interesting from a folkloric point of view:


I LEARNED:
there's a place called france
where the naked ladies dance
there's a hole in the wall
where the men can see it all
but the men don't care
cause they're wearing underwear
and the chones that they choose
cost a dollar fifty two (2007)

MY MOM LEARNED:
there's a place called Mars
where the ladies smoke cigars
and the men don't care
so they eat their underwear (1969)

MY GRANDMA LEARNED:
there's a place in France
where the ladies wear the pants
and the dance they do
is enough to kill a Jew (in racist 1936)

Posted by: Lopsi on June 17, 2007


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,celtaddict at the library
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 09:36 AM

In Oklahoma in the 1950s it was

There's a place in France
Where the alligators dance
And the dance they do
Was invented by a Jew
And the Jew wouldn't dance
So they kicked him in the pants
And the pants he wore
Cost a dollar ninety-four
Plus tax.

And

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me,
Think I'll go eat worms.
Great big slimy ones, short fat juicy ones,
See how they wiggle and squirm.
Bite their heads off, suck their guts out,
Throw the skins away.
Nobody knows how a man can thrive on
Worms three times a day.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 10:16 PM

Hi All,

In Brooklyn, in the late 50s and very early 60s:

All the girls in France
Do the hula hula dance
And the way they shake
Is enough to kill a snake
When the snake is dead
They put roses on his head
When the roses die
They put 1959.
(I recall doing this to hula-hooping)

"Dutch Girl"
I'm a little Dutch girl dressed in blue
Here are the things I'm taught to do
Salute to the captain
Bow to the queen
Turn my back on the US Marines
(No idea what this meant)

"Checkoslovakia" (A circle clapping game)
Checkoslovakia, boom, boom, boom
Now, Yugoslavia, boom, boom, boom.
Let's get the rhythm of the hands (clap clap)
We've got the rhythm of the hands (clap clap)
Let's get the rhythm of the feet (clap clap)
We've got the rhythm of the feet (clap clap)
Let's get the rhythm of the eyes (clap clap)
We've got the rhythm of the eyes (clap clap)
Let's get the rhythm of the number nine (clap clap)
We've got the rhythm of the number ... (clap clap)
(Then you count one at a time by fives starting with 5 until someone is out.)


"Miss Lucy"
Miss lucy had a baby
She called him Tiny Tim
She put him in the bathtub
To see if he could swim
He drank up all the water
He ate up all the soap
He tried to eat the bathtub but it wouldn't fit down his throat
Miss Lucy called the doctor
Miss Lucy called the nurse
Miss Lucy called the lady with the alligator purse
(something ending in "tion") said the doctor
(something ending in "tion") said the nurse
Operation said the lady with the alligaor purse.
Out came the water
Out came the soap
Out came the bathtub that wouldn't fit down his throat.


Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?
(name) stole the cookies from the cookie jar
Who me? Yes you.
Couldn't be! Then who?
(other name) stole the cookies from the cookie jar.
Etc

"When I Was a Baby"
When I was a baby, a baby, a baby
When I was a baby boom boom boom
It was crying this-a-way
Crying that-a-way
Crying this-a-way
Boom boom boom

(This goes through "child," "teenager kissing," then I think "when I got married" and then "had a baby" then "when my husband died" ending with
When I died, dies, died,
When I dies boom boom boom
It was six feet under, six feet under, six feet under boom boom boom.


There was also some rhyme that had "the bomb" in it in some form but I can't really remember it. I'll have to try harder!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:13 PM

A poster on this website http://everything2.com/title/Streets%2520Of%2520Cairo Streets Of Cairo, Tem42; Jan 15 2003 shares a number of examples of In The Land of France"; "There's A Place On Mars" etc, similar to those already provided on this thread

However, what is intriguing is that Tem42 provides some information about the origin of the melody and the source song that was used for those children's rhymes.

In case that website becomes unavailable, for the sake of folkloric information sharing and study, I'm going to quote post the words of that source song along with Yem42's comments about it.

"Sol Bloom claimed to have been the first to set down the melody*, as the theme to the 'Cairo' section of the Chicago World's Columbian Exposition of 1893. The melody has been used in a number of compositions, but perhaps the best known lyric is Streets Of Cairo, or The Poor Little Country Maid, written by James Thornton (1895). His wife, Bonnie Thornton, helped boost its popularity by singing it on the vaudeville stage. Here are Thornton's lyrics:

I will sing you a song,
And it won't be very long,
'Bout a maiden sweet,
And she never would do wrong,
Ev'ryone said she was pretty,
She was not long in the city,
All alone, oh, what a pity,
Poor little maid.

Chorus
She never saw the streets of Cairo,
On the Midway she had never strayed,
She never saw the kutchy, kutchy,
Poor little country maid.

She went out one night,
Did this innocent divine,
With a nice young man,
Who invited her to dine,
Now he's sorry that he met her,
And he never will forget her,
In the future he'll know better,
Poor little maid.

Chorus

She was engaged,
As a picture for to pose,
To appear each night,
In abbreviated clothes,
All the dudes were in a flurry,
For to catch her they did hurry,
One who caught her now is sorry,
Poor little maid.

Chorus

She was much fairer far than Trilby,
Lots of more men sorry will be,
If they don't try to keep way from this
Poor little country maid.



* It may have much older roots; see http://www.shira.net/streets-of-cairo.htm and http://64.33.34.112/.CAL/tt1.html for more info. "

-snip-

[Unfortunately, that link no long works as of the date of this posting]

Does anyone know more information about this "Streets of Cairo" song?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:37 PM

Tem42 and others write about the "There's A Place In France" rhymes in this discussion thread: http://everything2.com/title/There%2520is%2520a%2520place%2520in%2520France There is a place in France; cvs bag; Jan 21 2000

Here's an excerpt from Tem42's Jan 15 2003 post to that thread:

"There are a number of children's rhymes based around this melody; for more information about the melody and it's original lyric, see "Streets Of Cairo". This writeup, on the other hand, will be devoted to the modern mutations of this tune as preformed by the children of America (and probably other countries, too). These various versions of the song are often adapted as clapping rhymes and jump rope rhymes.

First of all, it should be noted that since the seventies, France has more and more frequently been replaced with Mars. I don't know why this is, but it seems to fit in well with the song's drift into nonsense. I won't try to put the various lyrics I've found in chronological order, but I will start with the older 'France' version, and 'progress' to the 'Mars' version"

-snip-

Tem42 then posts a number of examples of these rhymes. Some of his {her?} risque, and/or "politically incorrect" examples aren't included in this Mudcat thread.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,Fiddlefish
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 06:01 PM

Is it possible that the "I love coffee" jump rope jingle is related to the popular Ink Spots song of the 40s, "Java Jive":

I love coffee, I love tea
I love the java jive and it loves me
Coffee and tea and the jivin' and me
A cup, a cup, a cup, a cup, a cup!

Judy


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 07:11 PM

Hey, Judy {I started to write "Hey Jude" which is another great song}

:o}

As to your question, yes, I think that whoever wrote that
"Java Jive" song knew about the children's rhyme "I Love Coffee, I Love Tea".

But I don't have any proof that he or she or they knew that rhyme.

Maybe somebody else has some documentation about that {perhaps somebody asked the song writer/s that question in an interview}/
That would be great.

Well, maybe great is too superlative a word. But it sure would be good.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,MOM from BAMA
Date: 02 May 08 - 10:58 PM

I have never heard of most of these I think it is just according where you live. I have two small girls and here is a few of the one's they are always doing.

MOMMA MOMMA CAN'T YOU SEE
WHAT THIS BABY HAS DONE TO ME
TOOK AWAY MY MTV
NOW I'M STUCK WATCHING BARNEY
BARNEY GOT SHOT BY G.I. JOE
NOW I'M WATCHING COSBY SHOW
COSBY SHOW GOT FIRED
NOW I'M GETTING TIRED

DOUBLE DOUBLE THIS THIS
DOUBLE DOUBLE THAT THAT
DOUBLE THIS
DOUBLE THAT
DOUBLE DOUBLE THIS THAT

MIS SUE MIS SUE
MIS SUE FROM ALABAMA
LETS MAKE A MOVIE
SITTING IN A ROCKING CHAIR
EATING BETTY CROCKER
WATCHING THE CLOCK SAY
TICK TOCK BOOM BOOM BANANA
TICK TOCK BOOM BOOM BANANA
HEY LITTLE WHITE GIRL WHATCHA GOING TO DO
MOMMA GOT THE MESALS DADDY GOT THE FLU
GIVE ME A ABCDEFG HIJKLMNOP
TAKE A FLU SHOT TAKE A FLU SHOT
AND FREEZE


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 03 May 08 - 10:56 PM

Hey, Mom from Bama!

I just saw your three examples. Thanks for posting them! I hope you and other guests who post rhymes on Mudcat come back and share some more rhymes and join in the other conversations here.

Best wishes,

Azizi


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,woodcote
Date: 12 May 08 - 04:51 PM

Many of these rhymes came directly from the US to England during the 1940's

Burtonwood was ahuge US base and servicemen spread out across Lancashire

'I like coffee...' was common in the playgrounds of Preston in the 1960's

Quinnio coco was a well known game but involving throwing a ball

Queenio coco
who's got the ballio
I haven't got it
It isn't in mu pocket
Queenio coco
who's got the ballio


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 05:06 PM

National Children's Folksong Repository
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/ncfr/
record what you remember and lets put it up for us to hear!


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Subject: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,JD
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 09:52 AM

In response to Sarah June 9, 2005


In the land of Oz
Where the ladies smoke cigars
Every puff they take is enough to kill a snake
When the snakes are dead
They put roses in their head
When the roses die
They put diamonds in their eye
when the diamonds break
It's the end of 1958 of course this can change to 1998, 2008

JD July 28, 2008


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,JD - slight change
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 09:56 AM

In the land of Oz
Where the ladies smoke cigars
Every puff they take is enough to kill a snake
When the snakes are dead
They put roses in their head
When the roses die
They put diamonds in their eye
when the diamonds break
It's the end of 58 of course this can change to 98, 2008

JD July 28, 2008


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,CutieFromGA
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 11:02 PM

I'm a Nut

I'm a nut (clap clap**)
in a hut (clap clap)
I show my butt in pizza hut so what?!
I'm craz-y
I'm fool-ish
I'm crazy, I'm foolish, I'm crazy, I'm foolish so what!

(the left and right hand clapping each others would facing horizontally but the opposite of the other** ex: my left on top of other players right, her left on top of my right)

(Don't remember the title to this next one or the first half of it so I'll just post what I know)
Eighteen nineteen blueberry street
I told my mama what he did and this is was she said
Girls go to college to get more knowledge
boys go to jupiter to get more stupider (how ironic lol)
boys drink beer to get more weird
girls drink wine to get more fine


For 'Down Down Baby' our ordering was different here in Atlanta
we did
Let's get the rhythm of the head ding dong... etc (the ding dong part came first)
"put it all to together what do ya get
ding dong (head side to side)
clap clap
stomp stomp
hooot dooog (move your body like a snake)"
and then did it all in reverse of course
"do it all backwards and what do you get
hooot doog
stomp stomp
clap clap
ding dong, other than that everything was the same (except we didn't say color, we said black, must be an era thing)


For 'I don't wanna go to Mexico' we put Shame Shame Shame in front of it (the back of our left and right hand would be against each others and we used our outside hands to clap our own hands that were against each others and meet each others hand at the top, our own in the middle and then each others at the bottom again)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,CutieFromGa
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 11:37 PM

Slide baby

sliiide baby 1 baby 2, baby 1, 2
sliiide baby 1 baby 2 baby baby 3.. etc
baby 1, 2, 3 (in between each number the back of hit other's hands are suppose to hit meeting to the palm side


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Susan of DT
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 06:11 AM

I put Dutch Girl in the DT, with the motions, quite a long time ago:

I AM A PRETTY LITTLE DUTCH GIRL

I am a pretty little Dutch girl
As pretty as pretty can be
And all the boys around my way
Go crazy over me

My boyfriend's name was fatty
He comes from Cincinnati
With a pimple on his nose
And three black toes
And this is how my story goes

...

This was a clapping game in Brooklyn in the '50s
The motions were as follows:
two girls sat facing each other within clapping distance
clap self, clap right hands, clap self, clap left hands,
clap both hands with other, hands on own shoulders,
clap on own knees, repeat.
There are more verses
@kids
filename[ DUTCHGRL
SOF

I don't know the shop verse Azizi quoted, but do know the rest, but

One day when I was walking,
I saw my true love talking,
To a pretty little girl
With a strawberry curl,
And this is what he said:
I L-O-V-E love you
All the T-I-M-E time,
And I'll K-I-S-S kiss you
Tomorrow night at nine.

Lulu had a Steamboat is also in the DT, along with some other "teaser somes", but they did not have motions, nor were used for jumprope or ball.

A my name is Alice was a ball bouncing rhyme and I think the ball went under the leg at the last word of the line.

I don't remember what we did with:
Oh they don't wear pants
On the other side of France
But they do wear grass
Just to cover up their ass...

We did ball bouncing to:
I saw London, I saw France
I saw ________'s underpants
Are they white? Are they pink?
I don't know, but they sure stink

Brooklyn in the 1950s
Azizi - I looked up your profile - we are almost exactly the same age. I don't know why I thought you were younger.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 09:30 AM

I didn't start this thread, but on behalf of the Mudcat guest who started this discussion, and on behalf of other Mudcat members, I'd like to thank CutieFromGA for posting those examples. Thanks also, CutiefromGA, for indicating where you learned those rhymes.

CutiefromGeorgia, please join Mudcat. Membership is free & easy. Just click the membership at the top of the page, and follow the instructions that are shown.

**

Susan of DT, LOL! As for my age, the only way I would want to be younger is if I could remember all I've learned so far, and not have to repeat any mistakes I made, and not have to make any other {perhaps far worse} mistakes.

But anyway, I'm young at heart, and so are you.

:o)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,kristy
Date: 27 Dec 08 - 11:41 PM

theres a place in france where the alligators dance and the dance they do was written by the jews but the jews couldnt dance so they kicked them in the pants and the pants they wore cost $1.94


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,Dori
Date: 27 Mar 09 - 04:18 PM

I heard it like this:
There is a place in France
where the ladies hula dance
and the dance they do
scares the whiskers
off a Jew

There is a hole in the wall
Where the children see it all


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,friend
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 05:28 PM

This one i am not what it is called but it is what i am doing

nay nay see ontin cotton
bang bang i am boom boom boom
itsy bitsy tiny weinny cotton
bang bang i am boom boom boom
freeze freeze American cheese dont you lay your (eyes(example)) on me


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 01:30 PM

I just heard the song on a commercial for Delta faucets. Glad you guys knew the song, I was trying to find the relevence in a sexy song playing while the faucet sashayed erotically around.... Because in 1950's Florida, my mother sang:
there's a place in France
where the alligators dance.
One didn't dance,
so the shot him in the pants.

couldn't see how that was sexy enough for the commercial :)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 02:36 PM

Thanks to Guest kristy 27 Dec 08 , GUEST,Dori 27 Mar 09 - 04:18 PM, Guest friend 01 Jun 09 - 05:28 PM, and Guest 08 Jun 09 - 01:30 PM for sharing versions of "playground hand jives" (rhymes) with us.

You'll find reading other Mudcat playground rhymes threads that there's lots of examples of these rhymes that can be considered quite "sexy".

:o) and sometimes :o(


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,Asha
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 02:26 PM

Hand Jives from WI

Down down baby, down by the rollercoaster
Sweet sweet baby, never gonna let ya go.

Caught you with your boyfriend, naughty naughty
Didn't do the dishes, like lazy lazy
Jumped out the window, like crazy crazy

Bop bop a little little, do wah a bop a little
Ahtchi catchi liveratchi, how 'bout you?
Tutti fruiti!
________

Down by the banks of the hanky panky
Where the bullfrogs jump from bank to banky
With a hip, hop, shooby do-op
And they all jumped in with a keeer-plop!
________

Concentration, rehabilitation, concentration, this is how you play.
First you take a bowling ball and then you roll it down the hall...


I don't remember the rest to that last one, does anyone know that one?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 11:14 AM

I heard - and did - a lot of those verses, above, when I was a youngster in the 1940's and '50's. However, the term "hand jive" was unknown to me in those days. Then, in around 1957, Johnnie Otis did "Willie and the Hand Jive," which became a top selling record at the time:


I know a cat named Way Out Willie
He's got a cool little chick named Rockin' Nillie
He can walk and stroll and Susie Q
And do that crazy hand jive too

/ G - - - / / C7 - - - / G - - - /

Papa told Willie, you'll ruin my home
You and that hand jive have got to go
Willie said, Papa, don't put me down
They're doin' the hand jive all over town

Hand jive, hand jive, hand jive, doin' that crazy hand jive

/ C7 - G - D7 C7 G - /

Mama, Mama look at Uncle Joe
He's doin' that hand jive with sister Flo
Grandma gave baby sister a dime
Said, do that hand jive one more time

Well, the doctor and the lawyer and Indian chief
They all dig that crazy beat
Way Out Willie gave 'em all a treat
When he did that hand jive with his feet / Hand jive...

Willie and Nillie got married last fall
They had a little Willie Junior, and a-that ain't all
You know, the baby got famous in his crib, you see
Doin' that hand jive on TV / Hand jive...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: Mr Happy
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 11:36 AM

a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeeGMpM_Nk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeeGMpM_Nk


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:08 AM

This has got a great hand jive that goes with it. I don't know how y'all learned it but it has like ten steps to it that repeat.
_________
MISS SUZY

Miss Suzy had a steam boat
The steam boat had a bell
DING DING
Miss Suzy went to heaven
The steam boat went to
Hello operator
Please give me number nine
And if you disconnect me
I'll chop off your
Behind the frigerator
There lay a piece of glass
Miss Suzy sat upon it
And broke her little
Ask me no more questions
I'll tell you no more lies
The boys are in the bathroom
Zipping up their
Flies are in the meadow
The bees are in the park
Miss Suzy and her boyfriend
Are kissing in the D-A-R-K
D-A-R-K dark dark dark dark
The dark is like a movie
A movie's like a show
A show is like a TV screen
And that is all I know
I know I know my Ma
I know I know my Pa
I know I know my sister
With a forty acre bra
My Ma gave me a nickle
My Pa gave me a dime
My sister gave me her boyfriend
And we are kissing all the time
My Ma took away her nickle
My Pa took away his dime
My sister took away her boyfriend
And gave me Frankenstein
He made me do the dishes
He made me clean the floor
He made me wash his underwear
So I kicked him out the door
I kicked him over London
I kicked him over France
I kicked him to Hawaii
Where he learned the hula dance


______________
MISS MARY MACK

Miss Mary Mack Mack Mack
All dressed in black black black
With silver buttons buttons buttons
All down her back back back
She asked her mother mother mother
For fifteen cents cents cents
To see the elephants elephants elephants
Jump over the fence fence fence
The jumped so high high high
They touched the sky sky sky
And didn't come back...
Till the fourth of July-ly-ly


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,blondiegal397
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 01:27 AM

Whenever I was little we used to sing:

"Miss Suzie had a steamboat,
the steamboat had a bell, ding ding!
Miss Suzie went to heaven,
the steamboat went to...hell-O operator,
give me number 9, and if you disconnect me,
I'll chop off your be-HIND the fridgerator,
there laid a piece of glass,
Miss Suzie sat upon it and broke her little
ASK me no more questions, tell me no more lies,
the boys are in the bathroom, zipping up their
FLIES are in the meadows, bees are in their hives,
Miss Suzie and her boyfriend are kissing in the
D-A-R-K, D-A-R-K Dark, dark, dark darker than the ocean,
darker than the sea, darker than the underwear my grandma
puts on me. My mother is from Jupiter, my father
is from France, my sister is the stupid one who made me sing this song."

(Not sure how to really spell most of this, so I'm gonna try?)
"Bo, bo see ya-in-taut-in nay, nay, I am BOOM BOOM BOOM,
itty bitty ya-in-taut-in, bo, bo see ya-in-taut-in, bo, bo see ya-in-taut-in BOOM."
---I remember my friends and I always had competitions to see who could sing and do the hand motions the fastest.

"Miss Sue, Miss Sue,
Miss Sue from Alabama, sittin' in a rocker,
Eatin' Betty Crocker, watching the clock go
Tick tock, tick tock Banana rock,
Tick tock, tick tock Banana rock,
A-B-C-D-E-F-G, wash those boys germs off of me,
got a cramp in my side, got a cramp in my side,
don't move!"

"Down down baby, down by the roller coaster,
sweet sweet baby, never never let me go,
shimmy shimmy cocoa puff, shimmy shimmy WOW,
shimmy shimmy cocoa puff, shimmy shimmy BREAKDOWN.
I like coffee, I like tea,
I like the boys and the boys like me,
Grandma grandma, sick in bed,
called the doctor and the doctor said
'Let's get the rhythm of the head DING-DONG!
Let's get the rhythm of the hands (clap twice)
Let's get the rhythm of the feet (stomp twice)
Let's get the rhythm of the HOTTTT DOGGG (move body in circular motion)
Put it all together and what do you get?
DING-DONG, (clap clap) (stomp stomp) HOTTT DOGGG.
Put it all backwards and what do you get?
HOTTT DOGGG, (stomp stomp) (clap clap) DING-DONG!"

"Miss Suzie had a baby, she named him Tiny Tim,
she put him in the bathtub to see if he could swim.
He drank up all the water, he ate up all the soap,
he tried to eat the bathtub, but it wouldn't go down his throat.
Miss Suzie called the doctor, the doctor called the nurse,
the nurse called the lady with the alligator purse (says matter-of-factly everytime you say this part)
In came the doctor,
in came the nurse,
in came the lady with the alligator purse.
"Flu" said the doctor,
"Allergies" said the nurse,
nothing said the lady with the alligator purse.
Out went with the doctor,
out went with the nurse,
BOOM went with the lady with the alligator purse!"

"Miss Mary Mack, Mack, Mack!
All dressed in black, black, black!
With silver buttons, buttons, buttons
All down her back, back, back
She asked her mother, mother, mother
For fifty cents, cents, cents
To see the elephants, elephants, elephants
Jump over the fence, fence, fence
They jumped so high, high, high
They touched the sky, sky, sky
And didn't come back, back, back
Till the fourth of July, July, July."

"Double double this, this,
double double that, that.
Double this, double that,
double double this that!"
(sometimes we'd substitute with words such as
Double double straw, straw,
double double berry, berry.
double straw, double berry,
double double strawberry!
Make hands into fists, hit fists with the other person as the two say "double double" then open up hands so fingers are pointing up, clap hands with other person-double high five basically- at word "this" and then palms facing towards you at "that"-so backs of hands are hitting the backs of the other person's hands.)

"Down by the banks of the hanky panky,
where the bull-frogs jump from bank to banky,
with an Ooh, eee, ooh ahhh, he's off his lily with a big
KER-PLOP!"
(this was always fun to do in Girl Scouts, we'd sit in one big circle, hand in hand basically, slap each other's hands around the circle...whoever's hand was slapped at PLOP was out of the circle.)

"Apples on a stick, make me sick,
makes my heart go 246.
Not because I'm pretty,
not because I'm clean,
not because I kiss the boy behind the magazine.
Hey girl, wanna pick a fight?
Meet me on the corner on a Saturday night.
She can wibble, she can wobble,
she can do the splits, but I betcha $5 she can't do this.
Close your eyes, and count to 10,
don't say 8 or you have to kiss your boyfriend!"
(We were always teasing each other if one of us said 8, and saying 'Oh you have to go kiss the boy you like now!!' TORTURE for a 7 year old!)

"I don't wanna go to Mexico no more, more, more,
there's a big fat policeman at my door, door, door.
He took me by the hips, kissed me on the lips,
I don't wanna go to Mexico no more, more, more.

I WANNA go to Mexico some more, more, more,
there's a real cute guy at the door, door, door.
He grabbed me by the hips, kissed me on the lips,
I WANNA go to Mexico some more, more, more!"

Or:

A bunch of us standing in a circle, one would go in the middle, and skip around the circle, and we'd sing:
"Little Sally Walker, walking down the street,
she didn't know what to do, so she stopped in front of me
and said 'Hey girl (or boy) do your thang, do your thang,
SWITCH. Hey girl/boy do your thang, do your thang SWITCH."
(The kid in the middle had to stop in front of someone at the line "Stopped in front of me" and do some crazy dance move or whatever, then the kid he/she stopped in front of me jumped in the middle of the circle at the first "SWITCH" and had to copy the other. Then he/she would be the next person skipping around the circle.)

My friends and I liked to sing these while we jumped rope:
"Cinderella, dressed in yella,
Went upstairs to kiss a fella,
Made a mistake, kissed a snake,
How many doctors will it take?
1-2-3-4...."
(proceed to count until your foot hits the rope or the two others twirling the rope purposefully swings it so you can't jump it.)

"Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear,
Turn around (turn around)
Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear,
Touch the ground (touch the ground)
Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear,
Tie your shoe (hit your shoe)
Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear,
How old are you?
1-2-3-4..........."


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,My poor memory
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 11:04 PM

There's a place in France where the Alligators dance
and the dance they do was invented by Magoo
but Magoo can't dance so they kicked him in the pants
and the pants he wore cost a dollar ninety four, plus tax
but the tax was wrong so they had to sing a song
and the song they sang went like this.....

Another valley girl version. I grew up in the San Fernando valley which is a suburb of LA county. Right next door to Simi Vally.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: GUEST,Helpful Peter
Date: 07 Mar 17 - 09:00 AM

In the land of France
Where the alligators dance
One wouldn't dance
So they shot him in the pants
The pants he wore
Cost a dollar forty four
...(pause)... pluuuus taaaax


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