Mudcat Café message #3981839 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #165063   Message #3981839
Posted By: Richie
13-Mar-19 - 01:09 PM
Thread Name: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
Hi,

I'm still here just had some life changes and won't have time to work on Carpenter/Child ballads for a while.

Final corrections and suggestions of the earliest version of Child 13, the Swedish "Sohnen i Roosengård," have been made by Per G. L. Ahlander, an independent scholar who is a member of the Swedish Society for Musicology. See his footnote below. The murder of the brother itself is never literally stated but carefully implied through the dialogue beginning with Stanza 8. Here is the complete ballad and translation:

Sohnen i Roosengård (my title, dated c. 1640, from Swedish MS, UUB T 144 b, pp. 79-80; Jonsson I, pp. 190-195.)
[Son in the Rose Garden/ Son of Roosengård]

1 Alt godt iagh tigh meddeelar,
Sohnen i Roosengård
Mycket der vthi feelar,
Käre Moder wår (vår)
- i wänten oss aldrig.

["All good things I tell to you,
Son in the rose garden."
Many of these things are flawed,
Dear mother of ours [lit.: Dear mother ours]
- Expect us[me] never."

2 Nåde och frijd aff herran:
Sohnen i Roosengårdh:
den ware migh ey fierran.
Käre moder wår

["Grace and peace of the Lord
Son in the rose garden:
May it not be far from me.
Dear mother of ours."]

3 Kan iagh gott aff digh spöria:
Sonen i Roosengård:
Nu först det icke börias
Käre Moder wår

["Can I ask you of good things,
Son in the rosegarden?"
"Don’t start that now,
Dear mother of ours."]

4 "Annat iagh ey tänker:
Sohnen i Roosengårdh,
dett werlden migh ihnskänker,
Käre moder wår

["I don’t think anything else,
Son in the rosegarden.
"Whatever the world brings me,
Dear mother of ours."]

5 Dageligh du dygdh öfwa:
Sohnen i Rosengårdh:
effter som dee migh pröfwa:
Käre moder wår

["Every day you do good deeds,
Son in the rosegarden."
"Because they test/challenge me,
Dear mother of ours."]

6 Rijkedom effter trachta:
Sohnen i Roosengårdh:
den iagh lijtet achtar,
Kära moder wår

["Coveting riches:
Son in the rosegarden."
"I have but little desire of that,
Dear mother of ours."]

7 Redeligen wandra:
Sohnen i Roosengårdh:
hoos edher och bland andra:
Kära moder vår

["To wander (ie. to conduct myself) decently
Son in the rose garden."
"With you and among others,
Dear mother of ours."]

8 Inthet hörs aff din brodher:
Sohnen i Roosengårdh
han war migh aldrigh godher
Kära Moder wår

["Nothing is heard of your brother,
Son in the rose garden."
"He was never good to me,
Dear mother of ours."]

9 Ey mon han dödher wara,
Sohnen i Roosengård:
Jo, så plä skalkar fahra
Kära moder wår

["Might he be dead?
Son in the rose garden."
"Indeed, that is often the fate of scoundrels,
Dear mother of ours."]

10 Aldrigh du det förgäter,
Sohnen i Roosengårdh:
Jagh slipper fulle släter:
Käre Moder wår

["You will never forget it (his murder),
Son in the rosegarden."
"I will avoid it completely,
Dear mother of ours."]

11 Ney du skall det betaala:
Sohnen i Roosengård:
Jagh will der medh förhaala
Kära Moder wår

["No, you must pay for this (murder):
Son in the rosegarden."
"I shall delay it,
Dear mother of ours."]

12 Sannerligh det ey hielper:
Sohnen i Roosengårdh:
fögha det migh stielper.
Käre Moder wår,

["Truly it will not help:
Son in the rosegarden."
It will hardly hinder me,
Dear mother of ours."]

13 Ey will du migh bedröfwa:
Sohnen i Roosengård.
här i hielper det fögha.
Käre Moder wår,

["You will not cause me sorrow;
Son in the rosegarden."
"That can hardly be helped.
Dear mother of ours."]

14 Rundeligh kan du bööta:
Sohnen i Roosengård.
Jagh tohl ey dee migh hööta
Kära moder wår

["You will pay in full,
Son in the rosegarden."
"I can’t stand that they (you?) threaten me,
Dear mother of ours."]

15 Zeel må du nähr migh wara:
Sohnen i Rosengård
Jagh blijhr ey vthan fahra.
Kära moder wår

["You should be near me,
Son in the rosegarden."
I will not be without danger,
Dear mother of ours."]

16 Annat då hahr iagh med digh mehnt,
Sohnen i Rosengård
Jagh fruchtar det är nu förseendt.
Kära Moder wår

[I wanted it to be otherwise for you,
Son in the rosegarden."
I fear it is now too late,
Dear mother of ours."]

17 Jagh hahr digh ähmat trösta:
Sohnen i Rosengård
Det är ey till det bästa:
Kära moder wåhr

["I had thought I would comfort you,
Son in the rosegarden.
That would not be for the best,
Dear mother of ours."]

19 Så will du hedan reesa:
Sohnen i Roosengård
Ja, dijt iagh rååkar lijsa
Käre moder wåhr

["So you want to travel away from here,
Son in the rosegarden?"
Yes, to wherever I find relief,
Dear mother of ours."]

21 Så sägh migh då ditt Näste:
Sohnen i Roosengård.
Ey det på första Qwisten.
Ka ra Moder wår

["So tell me then where your nest will be (lit. So tell me then your nest),
Son in the rosegarden?"
"Not on the first branch,
Dear mother of ours."

22 Då, huadh mehnar din fader:
Sohnen i Roosengård
på den är iagh ey gladher:
Kära moder wår

["Then what will your father think,
Son in the rosegarden?"
"I am not happy about father's thoughts,
Dear mother of ours."

23 Han will digh ighen tagha,
Sohnen i Rosengård
Jagh skall wäl annars lagha,
Kära Moder wår

["He will take you back,
Son in the rosegarden."
"I suppose it will be otherwise (I will have it otherwise),
Dear mother of ours."

24 Din fader digh wäll finner,
Sohnen i roosengård.
Nappast han migh hinner
Kära Moder wår

["I suppose your father will find you,
Son in the rosegarden."
"He will hardly reach me,
Dear mother of ours."]

25 Ähn Konungen i rijket:
Sohnen i Roosengård.
han finner wäl sihn lijke:
Käre Modher wåhr.

["As the king in his realm,
Son in the rosegarden."
I suppose he will find his kin,
Dear mother of ours.

26 Hwart hahr du ähmat lända
sohnen i Roosengård
Dijt werlden hahr ehn ända
Kära moder wår

["Where do you think you will go,
Son in the rosegarden?"
"To where the world has an end,
Dear mother of ours."]

27 Hwad will du dig medh fööda
sohnen i Roosengård
Medh ahrbethe och möda,
Käre moder wår,

[How will you earn a living? (lit.: how will you feed yourself)
Son in the rosegarden?"
By work and weariness,
Dear mother of ours."]

28 När kommer du åter
Sohnen i Roosengård
När Elden blifaer wåter.
Kära moder wår

["When will you come back?
Son in the rosegarden?"
When the fire turns wet,
Dear mother of ours."]

29 När will du ighen komma.
Sohnen i Roosengård
När steenen står i blomma.
Kära moder wår

["When will you come back?
Son in the rose garden."
When the stone is in bloom.
Dear mother of ours."]

30 När will du blijfwa hemma
Sohnen i Roosengård
När stenen böriar simma.
Kära moder wår

["When will you be home?
Son in the rose garden."
"When the stone starts to swim,
Dear mother of ours."]

31 När skall iag till digh hinna.
Sohnen i Roosengård
När watnet böriar brinna
Käre moder wår

["When shall I reach you,
Son in the rose garden?"
"When water starts burning,
Dear mother of ours."]

32 När seer iagh digh min bästa
Sohnen i Roosengård
När som det dagas wästan
Käre moder wår

[When will I see you again, my dear?
Son in the rose garden."
When day breaks in the west,
Dear mother of ours."]

33 Skall iagh mehr om digh fråga
Sohnen i Roosengård
der före i nu råda.
Kära moder wåhr
- i wänten oss aldrig.

["Shall I ask any more about you?
Son in the rose garden."
That is for you to decide,
Dear mother of ours
- Expect us (me) never."]

The opening stanza of this archaic Swedish ballad establishes the dialogue between the "son in the rose garden" and "Käre Moder wår (vår)" which is literally "dear mother ours." The "ours" refers to the other children and in stanza 8 -- there is a brother, recently deceased. The last line of the opening stanza "- i wänten oss aldrig" translates litarally to: "Expect us never." The "us" apparently referring to the dead brother and the "son in the rose garden." These "plural" references[1] (mother ours/ expect us) make more sense to be singular (mother mine/ expect me) but including the dead brother adds a morbid touch. The way the poem approaches the death in a circular pattern adds suspense to the curious dialogue. The mother suggests the father will forgive him and take him back but the son says he thinks otherwise. The son will leave where the father cannot find him. The "pennace" stanzas begin with stanza 26 and continue to the end (stanza 33). What is made clear by the ending is that: the son (and his brother who is murdered) will not return. No reason is given for the murder of the fallen brother who is called a "scoundrel" by his brother--showing that there was no love between the two and that perhaps he deserved to be murdered. The ballad has been called "semi-comic" but rather seem to be an elabroration of what was an unknown shorter, coarser original version similar to the extant traditional Scandinavian versions. The "blood" of the slain brother is not present.

* * *

1. The singular/plural issue remains ambiguous. The plural can of course refer to two people, but in archaic Swedish, it could also be used as a more polite form when referring to one person only. Possibly even when referring back to oneself (cf. in English: “We are not amused”, said Queen Victoria!).