Mudcat Café message #3945351 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162666   Message #3945351
Posted By: Jim Carroll
21-Aug-18 - 08:46 AM
Thread Name: New Book: Folk Song in England
Subject: RE: New Book: Folk Song in England
"the one he referred us to) the actual Andrew Lammie was in fact a soldier"
It was poetic licence to make him a soldier - the ballad has hi as a servant
We are not discussing this as a factual representation but as a piece of creative invention based on living characters
That is what our folk songs have always done and that is what I have claimed
The main characters are a millers daughter and a servant - end of story
I am (or was - this is my last word n the subject) discussing this as a folk-made ballad not a piece of historical documentation

I don't know how you got the idea that upper class parents didn't object to their daughters running off with soldiers - ourtt literature is full of such plots - it even has a title "social misalliance"
A good looking daughter you could marry off well was money in the bank for a family wishing to climb the social ladder - it brought them power, influence and land
This is exactly what this ballad is about

"The "Shoals of Herring" deals with its subject matter with reality and sympathy"
Excellent example
"Shoals" is based entirely on interviews with two Norfolk deep sea herring fishermen, Sam Larner and Ronnie Balls - he words used are largely theirs and not MacColl's
His best songs were made using exactly the same method

THe Archers is about middle-class farming where working people are depicted, at best, in a patronising manner, but quite often as insulting caricatures - they out-Dibdin Dibdin

Radio writers get time to research their subjects - it's been pretty well established by all sides that broadside hacks didn't
Sorry - fell at the first fence, I'm afraid

I do hope Richard is watching this - making this a diversion from the main argument is exactly why I refuse to enter diversive blind alleys like this

Unless you intend to address my main points I'm finished here
Jim Carroll