Mudcat Café message #3944770 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162666   Message #3944770
Posted By: Jim Carroll
18-Aug-18 - 10:19 AM
Thread Name: New Book: Folk Song in England
Subject: RE: New Book: Folk Song in England
I've just counted the ones without tunes based on their non-appearance in Bronson - not as many as even I thought
A tune implies they have probably been sung
I have yet to check the missing ones, but when you consider that a large number of ballad collections that were taken from the mouths of singers do not include tunes, that is going to be reduced even further
Child was working from print, not from the oral traditions - he included very few tunes in his collection, this didn't mean that the published versions weren't collected from country singers
Child did have a low opinion of some of the ballads he included but he had an even lower opinion of the broadsides
He was in a position to know whether these songs originated on the presses just as Sharp did - neither of them ever claimed these songs otr ballads originated on the "dinghill" presses
I assume you have carried out similar research as I have - happy to swap findings

" there is little or no evidence that a substantial proportion of these were in or became part of an oral tradition"
There is none whatever to suggest that any of them originated on the broadside presses - none
Can you point out any that you guarantee originated from the presses - ?Steve has admitted he can't and his theory is just that - a theory
THe same goes for your second point - the period you refer to is marked by a sharp decline in the singing traditions - judging them on that basis is like judging a racehorse after it has been put out to stud
I'm delighted you regard Steve as a scolar, just as I am that you regard me as untrustworthy
I would be very uncomfortable if it were any other way

The most notable thing about this discussion is how you and everybody have totally refused to respond to my comparison between the two contenders for the role of folk composer
I'm sure if it had been possible you'd have hung a bulb of garlic near it in the hope you might drive it away - a pointed stake would be my guess
You people !!!
Jim Carroll