Mudcat Café message #3944736 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162666   Message #3944736
Posted By: Jim Carroll
18-Aug-18 - 05:16 AM
Thread Name: New Book: Folk Song in England
Subject: RE: New Book: Folk Song in England
I have to work on the notes Brian - the collector was far from a ballad scholar ot a historian - he was a priest

Hind Horn is a Canadian version, the singer learned it from his Northern Irish mother
It comes with a tune which won't reproduce here
Jim

Hind Horn (Child 17)
OLD BEGGAR MAN.” Taken down from the singing of Mr. Thomas Edward Nelson, Union Mills, New Brunswick, September 28, 1928, who learned it from his mother, who was born in the north of Ireland and died New Brunswick, 1918, aged 85 years. Melody recorded by Mr. George Herzog.

1 “Whence came ye, or from what counteree ?
Whence came ye, or where were you born ?”
“In Ireland I was bred and born
Until I became a hele and his horn.

2 “I gave my love a gay gold watch
That she might rule in her own counteree,
And she gave me a gay gold ring,
And the virtue of this was above all things.

3 “ ‘If this ring bees bright and true,
Be sure your love is true to you;
But if this ring bees pale and wan,
Your true love’s in love with some other man.’ ”

4 He set sail and off went he,
Until that he came to a strange counteree;
He looked at the ring, it was pale and wan,
His true love was in love with some other one.

5 He set sail and back came he,
Until that he came to his own counteree,
And as he was riding along the plain,
Who should he meet but an old beggar man.

6 “What news, what news, you old beggar man ?
What news, what news have you got for me?”
“No news, no news,” said the old beggar man,
“But tomorrow is your true love’s wedding day.”

7 “You lend me your begging rig,
And I’ll lend you my riding stage.”
“Your riding stage ain’t fit for me,
Nor my begging rig ain’t fit for you.”

8 “Whether it be right, or whether it be wrong,
The begging rig they must go on.
So come, tell to me as fast as you can
What’s to be done with the begging rig.”

9 “As you go up to yonder hill,
You may walk as fast as ’tis your will,
And when you come to yonder gate,
You may lean upon your staff with trembling step.

10 “You may beg from Pitt, you may beg from Paul,
You may beg from the highest to the lowest of them all;
But from them all you need take none
Until you come to the bride’s own hand.”

11 She came trembling down the stairs,
Rings on her fingers and gold in her hair,
A glass of wine all in her hand,
Which she gave to the old beggar man.

12 He took the glass and drank the wine,
And in the glass he slipped the ring.
“O, where got you this, by sea or by land,
Or did you get it off a drowned one’s hand?”

13 “Neither got I it by sea or land,
Neither did I get it off a drowned one’s hand;
I got it in my courting gay,
And gave it to my love on her wedding day.”

14 Rings from her fingers she did pull off,
Gold from her hair she did let fall,
Saying, “I’ll go with you forevermore
And beg my bread from door to door.”

15 Between the kitchen and the hall
The diner’s coat he did let fall,
All a-shining in gold amongst them all,
And he was the fairest in the hall.

This is the first time that “Hind Horn” has been recorded in America, and we are particularly fortunate in getting both a good text and the air from the same person. The copy above was taken down, in 1928, by Mrs. Eckstorm, from Mr. Nelson’s singing. We have also another copy, taken down in 1927, by Miss Smyth, from Mr. Nelson’s recitation. There are variations, as would be expected in copies taken by different persons in different years; but they are hardly important enough to warrant printing both texts in full when a collation of the two is simple and satisfactory.
Knowing that this must become the standard text in this country, we have deliberately adopted three variations from the second copy for the A-text, for the sake of the sense. They will be found noted below in the twelfth, thirteenth, and fifteenth stanzas. We see no good reason why the chance variants of the same singer should not be interchangeable, when either the rhythm or the sense of a text is improved by a substitu¬tion. Yet in this ballad, as in others, the texts have been kept separate, except for these three slight changes—“gay” for “day,” “he” for “they,” and a misleading word omitted.

B.
COLLATION of the two texts from Mr. T. E. Nelson, Union Mills, New Brunswick. The following is the spoken 1927 text, compared by stanza and line, with A.

1 Lacks the first line of the 1928 text. Fourth line shows an important variation, commented upon below, of “hind” instead of “hele.”
2 Fourth line reads, “And the virtue of this was above all else.” The rhyme, lost in recitation, is caught again in the ver¬sion sung.
3 Twice “looks” instead of “bees,” as        sung.        This line        was sung several times in catching the air, but always as “bees.”
4 Line two omits “that.” “Countree,” used instead of “coun¬teree,” possibly the transcriber’s variation, was more likely rhythmic, caught in singing. Fourth line reads, “His truelove was in love with some other man.” “Man” and “wan” were rhymed, a possible indica¬tion of the Gaelic origin of “wan,” with this meaning of “pale” (Irish, bán “white”).
5 Line two omits “that.”
6 Line two omits one “what news?”
7 Lines one and two have “lend” instead of “give me your beg¬ging rig.” Lines three and four are transposed.
8 Line two, “it” for “they.” Line three, “quick” for “fast.”
9 Whole stanza lacking in 1927 copy.
10 Line four, “maid’s own hand” instead of “bride’s.”
11 “And in her hand a glass of wine,” missing the rhyme of “han’ ” and “man.”
12 Line three, as printed. What he sang was, “Saying, Where got you this, by sea or by land,” which throws the question to Horn himself and ruins the sense. Ballad singers have a way of introducing a direct quotation with the word “say¬ing,” which very often is spoken, not sung. It takes the place of quotation marks in print and often is a warning of a change of speaker. A transcriber who understands this use would be justified in not recording the word at all unless it is significant and properly used.
13 Line three, as printed in A. He sang “courting day,” which with “wedding day” as a rhyme was unpleasant; but he recited “courting gay.”
14 “No change in this stanza.
15 Line two, as printed in A. He sang it, “The diner’s coat they did let fall,” clearly an error of sense. The most important difference in the texts is the change from “hind” to “hele.” In 1927 Mr. Nelson said:
“Until I became a hind and his horn,” and he pronounced “hind” with a short vowel, just as Mrs. F. W. Morse did in speaking of “Hind Horn”—possibly Irish usage. But in 1928, Mr. Nelson, in singing, repeatedly said “hele,” “hale,” “heel,” or “hael,” or perhaps “heil,” instead of “hind.” His vowel was not clear and we could not determine it; nor could we understand it. But it does not do to worry a ballad singer; what you do not understand, he often does not understand any better.