Mudcat Café message #3939828 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162666   Message #3939828
Posted By: Jim Carroll
27-Jul-18 - 08:57 AM
Thread Name: New Book: Folk Song in England
Subject: RE: New Book: Folk Song in England
"I am sorry, Jim, but it does seem to me as if at times Lloyd did behave like a charlatan, "
It appears that you are not supported by either evidence notr the experiences of people who actually knew him
If you can't take our word for it there is nothing more to say on the matter
You mention the 'delousing' the illustrations of which are fairly accessible or where when they were used in an article on the ballad in a folk magazine some forty years ago

Your 'shamanistic duel' is one of the most common motifs in folk tales - and well understood by the tellers - we'v recorded half a dozen of them an I know The Stewardts of Blair had a number of them in their family repertoir

Lloyd's book wasn't intended to be an academic thesis - it was intended to inspire an up-and-coming generation of folk enthusiasts to respect and love folk songs
It seems to me that the latest trend is to prove that the songs are neither unique nor are they distinguishable from everything else a traditional singer sang
That's an awful lot of silk purses down the Swanee

It seems we've reached a stage in academia/research where we demand finite proof for things that don't suit our own views but swallow wholesale views that do - like 'the folk didn't make folk songs' for instance or 'Ewan and Bert were pop singers'
Mosyt of the information we are seeking here either never existed or remains hidden somewhere, yet to be found
In which case, we need to apply logic and common sense
If a 'peasant' can take a 'pig's ear' of a ham-fisted broadside ad turn it into a 'silk purse' of a folk song, whyy could they not have made that folk song in the first place?
Add to this that, up to the first half of the 20th century Irish rural dwellers were making folk songs in their hundreds reflecting their lives and surroundings
Were their British counterparts so untalented or unimaginative that they had to pay somebody to do the job for them?
I'd like to think not

The longer I read and argue about what people have to say on this, the more I become convinced that many of these arguments have more to do with a dying revival than they do an honest examination of a people's culture
I'd hate to think that research ended up in the same sad state as has the clubs
Then I really would have to re-learn "Where have all the Flowers Gone?"