Mudcat Café message #3898487 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162666   Message #3898487
Posted By: Jim Carroll
10-Jan-18 - 05:41 AM
Thread Name: New Book: Folk Song in England
Subject: RE: New Book: Folk Song in England
"It isn't! We keep stating that rural people (and soldiers and seamen)
did write rural songs and indeed we have given plenty of good examples of what they wrote. More if you wish."
You have described these songs as Farers writing of their own exppereinces which have not become folk songs
No answer
"There are lots of possible answers to this and others will probably add to my list."
Superficial twaddle
Most collectors referred to the songs as being produced by the people - Motherwell made a point of it when he warned against editing them and Sharp quoted him doing so
"We have already addressed this one numerous times. Vic just addressed the 'conveyor belt' idea."
No you haven't
Vic actually put it forward as an excuse for why broadside compositions were as unsingably bad as they were (though he didn't mention 'in contrast to the folk songs which are highly singable'
"Why is is so important to you that these songs were produced for money rather than made to reflect working lives.
It isn't. The fact that they were paid is incidental!
You maid a gleeful point of describing the money aspect of the production of these songs, comparing them to those produced by today's pop industry
You are joking?
"Others have already addressed the Bothy Ballads issue. "
Nowheern near sufficiently
You fully accepted that they were exceptions because they were examples of workers having made their songs
From: Steve Gardham - PM
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 07:22 PM
Long ago I conceded that parts of Ireland and the Bothy tradition have songs made in local communities that have become part of oral tradition. You are well aware that I am talking about the body of material collected by the likes of Sharp, Kidson, Baring Gould, Hammond, Gardiner etc.

What is being suggested here is that they weren't necessarily rexamples of such
These are more excuses with no real responses Steve
Banks of Sweet Primroses
"would have demanded a countryman's specialist knowledge"
I raise the song as a beautiful example of a comparison in style and language between the broadside output and that of the folk, not as demanding specialist knowledge of the countryside
Will deal (with some pleasure) with your 'Maid of Australia' text in full later
Jim Carroll