Mudcat Café message #3886198 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162917   Message #3886198
Posted By: Jim Carroll
01-Nov-17 - 10:13 AM
Thread Name: What is Happening to our Folk Clubs
Subject: RE: What is Happening to our Folk Clubs
"Not on anyone's side Jim, just relating an incident that took place when I was present."
And I'm telling you what I've got on record Hoot
MacColl was never a violent man in my experience and he put up with a load of garbage in the form of slanderous and largely dishonest abuse - that is often forgotten
Dont know if you were around at the time the Travelling People was being made when they put out a last minute appeal for Traveller Made songs
One hero sent a tape of such songs which the team became excited about and agreed to include in the programme - the quality of the recordings were such that it became necessary to farm them out to other singers - Sheila Stewart being one of them
The were scripted in until, at the last minute the donor, Mervyn declared them to be fakes sung by him - a deliberate attempt to sabotage the most influential programme on Travellers made up to then
The same hero later made his name by "correcting" the Alfred Williams manuscript collection with a felt-tipped pen

"So, Jim, after all that, are you going to give us how you define what type of music you expect to hear at a folk club? "
This has ben repeated enough to have movd from being a mistake to one of deliberate distortion
One more (last, I hope) time
30 Oct 17 - 05:52 AM
""Folk clubs since their inception have always had a mixture of traditional and contemporary songs "
Which is wahat I have suggested throughout"
" new songs based on folk forms"
Yoyur own words Dave
"You say you expect a folk club to have "reasonably performed traditional songs coupled with new songs that have used traditional forms in their construction".
Now you have said
" Jim has repeatedly told us that we need to provide a definition, which I have, and has then repeatedly refused to let us know what his definition is."
Is it yourself you can't understand maybe?
Which is the real you that said what?
I have stressed over and over and over again that I do not want n evening of just traditional songs - I have even said that I have never attended one
I have also said I don't believe a club doesn't need a definition, just a consistency related to what it calls itself
Ignoring this is either mass dyslexic or simple dishonesty.
You are either lying or have missed the point that no definition exists and keep referring to it as mine.
Ther is an existing dentition used my most researchers and academics to inform their work - I use it as a researcher, not as a singer.
If I was just a singer I wouldn't need a definition, but I would expect to hear a song as advertised when I set out to a club - that is not pedantry or purism - it is the right every single one of us has to choose our music - take that away and it is you who are imposing your own tastes on others.
What is your definition if I have it, bearing in mind that nothing becomes a definition until it is generally accepted?
What do you offer the punters who turn up at your "folk club"?
Jim Carroll