Mudcat Café message #3884304 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162917   Message #3884304
Posted By: Jim Carroll
24-Oct-17 - 11:57 AM
Thread Name: What is Happening to our Folk Clubs
Subject: RE: What is Happening to our Folk Clubs
"if folk clubs just had to rely on people like yourself for an audience I doubt if many, if any, would be open today."
If the clubs refuse to adhere to what they claim to present, does it matter?
I joined this mans army to promote the music, not to give somewhere to go on a rainy night.
"I think what we are saying is that clubs in general are not in a mess, Jim. "See my comments above Dave"
It all depends on what you belive the role of the clubs to be
If they are to put bums on seats, the general belief appears to be that there aren't anywhere enough of them and those are declining as we fall off the twig.
If they are there to promote folk music, the fact that nobody seems able to say what that music is is a clear indication that they have failed dismally - a rudderless ship.
"Not an argument I have ever used, Jim."
How else have I insulted "thousands" if it is not through challenging what goes on in today's folk clubs?
"You can't stump up a workable definition either, Jim"
Of course I can Bryan - I have repeated over and over again that, flawed as it is, the '54 one will do till a better one comes along, Steve Roud in his 'Folk Song in England' says exactly that.
"If you were applying for funding, I don't think "something that loosely conforms to that description""
I know what the problems of getting a grant for furthering folk song are in Britain first hand, I was part of a team that once tried to set up a national archive
"something that loosely conforms to that description" would be as as successful as trying to quench the sun with a bucket of water.
Even The National Sound Archive at the B.L. is totally stymied in making available its folk song holdings through lack of money,
A dilettante approach such as the one you suggest would be laughed all the way up the Euston Road.
"If you want help with your archive, try being nice to people."
That's a two-way street Bryan I'm sure you have found out.
I have given up seeking help in Britain - I managed to get it locked in a cupboard, so as far as I am concerned the ball's in your court, otherwise, posterity will have to sort it out.
"It's never been the case that all folk clubs have soley focused on traditional song,"
Despite some of the misrepresentations here, nobody has ever sought to create a situation where "all folk clubs have solely focused on traditional song," - certainly nobody I ever worked with and respected.
Back in the day, we peacefully co-exited with the Zimmerman school of thought, they did their thing and we did ours -there was even a degree of crossover, certainly not the hostility I find here
"But the clubs aka singing circles in your part of the world are not in a mess"
No they are not (some of them are a mess, but that's a different argument)
The don't cater for one specific type of music nor do they claim to - would that that level of integrity crossed the Irish Sea
You did of course -- you referred to I Don't Like Mondays - my apologies
"More made up shit, Jim."
Doesn't make too much difference to the fact that your boorish bad manners makes you a bullying lout though   
"Now you may believe it still has credence but I'm afraid you are in a VERY small minority."
Am I?
I have a definition to work to - you people appear not to have even been able to cobble one together between you
That makes it that there are far more of me than there are you,
When push comes to shove we "are all in a VERY small minority."
The type of shenanigans that are well represented here has meant that, by and large the British public don't give a toss about folk song - real or ersatz, and who can blame them?
We have even lost the ground we once won.
Jim Carroll