Mudcat Café message #3853153 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #161981   Message #3853153
Posted By: Richie
30-Apr-17 - 05:24 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
Subject: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
Hi,

This should be the last installment of "Died for Love" and appears Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV

Please post any and all versions here: the ballads include these titles:

Died for Love; Rambling Boy; Answer to the Rambling Boy; The Butcher Boy; Brisk Young Sailor/Lad; There is an Alehouse; The Cruel Father, or, Deceived Maid ("A squire's daughter near Aclecloy"); Squire's Daughter; Oh Willie; Tavern in the Town; I Wish, I Wish; I Wish in Vain; Lady's Lamentation; Adieu; Radoo Radoo Radoo; Foolish Young Girl; Maiden's Prayer

Here are the variants lettered A-K (all ballads have not been added yet):

A. Died for Love-- Roud 60 ("I Wish, I Wish," "Alehouse") Roud 495
   a. "The Effects of Love- A New Song," broadside; 1 sheet; 1/80. British Library 11621.k.4(158), London c.1780.
   b. "Strange House," sung in Ulster c.1860s; from: The Irish Book Lover - Volumes 9-13 - Page 130 by John Smyth Crone, ‎Seamus O'Cassidy, ‎Colm O Lochlainn - 1917.
   c. "There's An Alehouse" from Ella Bull who it learned from Hannah Collins a domestic servant native of Cottenham, Cambridgeshire in 1886 and sent to Lucy Broadwood in December 20, 1904.
   d. There is a House- No informant or location given. From: English Dialect Society - 1896; Publications, Volume 41 by English Dialect Society
   e. "There is an Alehouse" taken from an old singer from Lancaster; 1904 Kidson From: Songs from the Collection of Mr. Frank Kidson; by Frank Kidson and Lucy E. Broadwood; Journal of the Folk-Song Society Vol. 1, No. 5 (1904), pp. 228-257.
   f. There Is An Ale-House In Yonders Town- sung by William Clark, of Barrow-on-Humber Lincolnshire, on August 3, 1906. Collected by Percy Grainger.
   g. Died for Love- three stanzas sung by Joseph Taylor of Saxby, Lincolnshire for Lucy Broadwood on March 7, 1906. Also sung by Joseph Taylor on a wax cylinder recording made by Percy Grainger in 1905 and 1908.
   h. "The Alehouse." Sung by Henry Way of Stoke Abbott, Dorset in May 1906. Collected by H.E.D. Hammond. Significant since it's related to "She's Like the Swallow."
   i. There is an Alehouse- sung by James Channon (b. 1857) of Basingstoke, Hampshire in September, 1907. Collected by G.B. Gardiner, Charles Gambin.
   j. "I Wish, I Wish." Sung by Miss H. Rae, Sandhaven, about February 1908. From The Greig-Duncan Folk Song Collection - Volume 8 - Page 256; by Patrick N. Shuldham-Shaw, ‎Emily B. Lyle - 2002. Rare version with suicide.
   k. There Is An Ale House- sung by Charles Ash of Crowcombe, Somerset on 15 September, 1908. Collector: Cecil J. Sharp. Hybrid with Constant Lady, then with Pitts' "Sheffield Park."
   l. "There is an Alehouse," sung by a 70 year old carpenter, Mr. James Bayliff of Bardon, Westmorland in June, 1909. He learned it about 60 years earlier when he was 10. Collected and noted by Anne Gilchrist.
   m. "Apron Low," sung by Charles Benfield, of Bould Oxfordshire on 11 Sept., 1909. Collector: Cecil J. Sharp.
   n. "There is a Tavern" sung by Mrs. Lucy Jane Lee of South Marston, Wiltshire before 1916. Collected by Alfred Williams. Has suicide, not related to composition.
   o. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Ethel Findlater of Dounby, Orkney about c.1918 as recorded by Alan J. Bruford in 1968. Ethel learned the first two verses from her mother around fifty years before, and got the last verse from a People's Journal folk song supplement.
   p. "Betsy Williams," sung by Kathleen Williams of Wigpool Common, Gloucestershire on 6 September, 1921. Collector: Cecil J. Sharp.
   q. "I Wish in Vain." Sung by F.P. Provance of Fayette County, Pennsylvania in 1943. Collected by Samuel P. Bayard, with music. From: Korson, Pennsylvania Songs & Legends pp.48-49.
   r. "The Apron of Flowers" Sam Henry recovered it from Mrs. H. Dinsmore of Coleraine on December 26, 1936. A hybrid from Ireland.
   s. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Cecilia Costello. Recorded by Marie Slocombe and Patrick Shuldham-Shaw, 30.11.51
   t. "Early, Early All in the Spring," sung by Winnie Ryan in Belfast in 1952. Recorded by Peter Kennedy and Sean O'Boyle.
   u. "There is an Alehouse," sung by 'Pop's' Johnny Connors, a Wexford Traveller c. 1953. BBC Recordings of Folk Music and Folklore, Great Britain and Ireland, Section 1: Songs in English.
   v. "What a Voice," sung by Jeannie Robertson of Aberdeen in October, 1953 for Hamish Henderson and J. Anthony (School of Scottish Studies). Jeannie learned it from her mother, Maria Stewart.
   w. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Charlotte Higgins (1895-1971) of Blairgowrie, Perthshire in July, 1961. Recorded by Hamish Henderson; Maurice Fleming. Learned from her great grandmother.
   x. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Elsie Morrison of Moray in 1956. Recorded by Hamish Henderson. School of Scottish Studies; Track ID - 20022.
   y. "There is an Alehouse," Sung by Tom Willett. Recorded by Ken Stubbs, c.1960. From the recording, The Willett family "Adieu to Old England" 1963, Topic Records.
   z. "Died for Love." Sung by Tom Willett Recorded by Paul Carter, 1962. The Willett family, "Adieu to Old England" 1963, Topic Records.
   aa. "I Wish my Baby Were Born" Dillard Chandler, Madison NC, recorded bu John Cohen in 1965.
   bb. "Died For Love," sung by Sarah Porter, recorded in 1965 in The Three Cups, Punnetts Town.
   cc. "I Wish I Wish," sung by Sam Larner (1878- 1965) a sailor/fisherman of Winterton, Norfolk around 1961. From the recording: Sam Larner, Cruising Round Yarmouth (MTCD369-0)
   dd. "Blind Beetles," sung by Dorset gypsy Carolyne Hughes (1902-1971), as recorded by MacColl around 1963. It was later recorded by Peter Kennedy in 1968 who titled it "Blind Beetles."
   ee. "There Is a Tavern in the Town," sung by Emma Vickers from Lancashire. From a recording made by Fred Hamer in Autumn 1963 that he printed in his 1967 EFDS book of English folk songs, Garners Gay.
   ff. "I Wish (Till Apples Grow)," by the Dubliners 1964, sung solo by Ronnie Drew. From the Album The Dubliners (Bonus Track Edition) released January 1, 1964. Has "Love is Teasing" stanza.
   gg. "Died for Love," sung by Alf Wildman of Shefford, Bedfordshire at the King's Head Folk Club on February 25, 1970.
   hh. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Mrs. Belle Anne MacAngus of Ross. Recorded by de Groot in 1971. The informant was born in 1881 and brought up in Hilton. She was a fishwife.
   ii. "There is an Alehouse," sung by Andy Cash of Wexford County in 1973, from Jim Carroll and Pat McKenzie Collection.
   jj. "Died for Love," sung by Geoff Ling of Blaxhall, Sussex on December 17, 1974. Recorded by Keith Summers. From: Singing Traditions of a Suffolk Family: The Ling Family-- Topic Records 12TS292.
   kk. "Over Yonder's Hill" sung by Amy Birch; recorded by Sam Richards, Paul Wilson and Tish Stubbs in the singer's trailer at Exebridge, Devon, November 1976.
   ll. "I Wish I was a Maid Again," sung by Eugene McEldowney, recorded at Tom Maye's Pub in Dublin, June 16, 2004.

B. The Cruel Father ("A squire's daughter near Aclecloy,") her love is sent to sea- dies of a cannonball; Roud 23272
   a. "The Cruel Father or Deceived Maid," from the Madden Collection, c.1780.
   b. "Answer to Rambling Boy" from a chapbook by J. & M. Robertson, Saltmarket, Glasgow; 1799.
   c. "The Squire's Daughter," printed by W. Shelmerdine and Co., Manchester c. 1800
   d. "Answer to Rambling Boy," four printings from US Chapbooks: 1. The Harper: to which are added, Shannon's flowery banks, The rambling boy, with The answer. Bung your eye, Henry and Laury [i.e. Laura]. London [i.e., Philadelphia : s.n., 1805?] 2. The Rambling boy, with the Answer : to which is added, Blue bells of Scotland, Good morrow to your night cap, Capt. Stephen Decatur's victory, Green upon the cape. From Early American imprints., Second series, no. 50722. [Philadelphia]: [publisher not identified], 1806; 3. The Bold mariners: The rambling boy, and the answer: Roslin Castle, to which is added the answer: Flashy Tom. [Philadelphia? : s.n.], January, 1811; 4. Ellen O'Moore. The Bold mariners. The Rambling boy. Barbara Allen. [United States : s.n.], January, 1817.
   e. "The Killarney Tragedy," an Irish broadside printed by John F. Nugent Printer 35 Cook St. Dublin c. 1850s.
   f. "Sweet William," as written down about July 1, 1915, by Miss Mae Smith of Sugar Grove, Watauga county, from the singing of her stepmother, Mrs. Mary Smith, who learned it over forty years ago. submitted by Thomas Smith, Brown Collection, c.1875.
   g. "Rambling Boy" Cowboy Songs and Other Frontier Ballads, John Lomax 1916 edition.
   h. "Cruel Father" sung by Fanny Coffee of White Rock, Virginia on May 8, 1918. Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection.
   i. "The Wrecked and Rambling Boy" from Mrs. Audrey Hellums, Tishomingo, Mississippi. Hudson C, 1926
   j. "Oh Willie" from Mary Lou Bell of Staunton Virginia; 1932
   k. "The Isle of Cloy" collected by E.J. Moeran in the 1930s in Suffolk from George Hill and Oliver Waspe.
   l. "I Am a Rambling Rowdy Boy," sung by Rena Hick of Beech Mountain, NC collected in December, 1933 by Melinger Henry. Songs Sung in the Southern Appalachians, by Mellinger Henry, London c.1934.
   m. "Black Birds.' Miss Lura Wagoner of Vox, Allegheny County, NC, 1938
   n. "Oh Willie" sung by Rod Drake of Silsbee Texas; See Owens, 1952.
   o. "Beam of Oak." Sung by Stuart Letto of Lance au Clair, Labrador in July, 1960 from "Folk Ballads and Songs of the Lower Labrador Coast" by MacEdward Leach.
   p. "Rude and Rambling Boy," Buna Hicks Sugar Grove, NC , 1966. Warner

C. The Rambling Boy ("I am a wild and a rambling boy") Roud 18830, c. 1765
   a. "The Wild Rover," The Musical Companion (British Library) London, c. 1765.
   b. "Rambling Boy," To which is Added, The New Vagary O, Shepherds I Have Lost My Love, The Drop of Dram, Fight Your Cock in the Morning. Published by W. Goggin of Limerick BM 11622 c.14, dated 1790.
   c. "Rambling Boy," from a chapbook by J. & M. Robertson, Saltmarket, Glasgow; 1799. Same text as "Rambling Boy" printed by William Scott in Greenock no date, probably early 1800s [c. 1812].
   d. "Rambling Boy," broadside J. Pitts, 14 Great St. Andrew Street, Seven Dials, London c. 1806
   e. "The Wild Rambling Boy," T. Birt, Printer, 39, Great St. Andrew Street, Seven Dials; London c. 1833.
   f. "The Rambling Boy" broadside first line "rake and rambling boy" (Manchester Reference Library, Ballads Vol. 5, page 392) Gardham 5A.
   g. "Sweet William." Brown Collection M from Thomas Smith, with the notation that it was "written down about July 1, 1915. By Miss Mae Smith of Sugar Grove, Watauga county, from the singing of her stepmother, Mrs. Mary Smith, who learned it over forty years ago."

D. Brisk Young Lover ("A brisk young sailor courted me,") Roud 60
   a. "The Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her Sweetheart," from the Manchester Central library; c.1775. It is mixed with Oxfordshire Tragedy c. 1686 (after stanza 4) and called a sequel to Oxfordhire by Ebsworth.
   b. "A New Song Call'd the Distress'd Maid," London, (no imprint) in the Madden Collection Cambridge University Library (Slip Songs H-N no. 1337) c.1785.
   c. ["A Faithful Shepherd"] - from John Clare (b. 1793 in Helpstone), MS dated 1818
   d. "Brisk Young Sailor," broadside by W. Pratt, Printer, 82, Digbeth, Birmingham; c.1850
   e. "Brisk Young Sailor," broadside by Bebbington, Manchester; c. 1855
   f. "Brisk Young Sailor" sung by Starlina Lovell, gypsy, in Wales area. Collected by Groome, published 1881.
   g. "There Was Three Worms," sung by Mr. Bartlett of Dorset in 1905; collected by H.E.D Hammond. From: Songs of Love and Country Life by Lucy E. Broadwood, Cecil J. Sharp, Frank Kidson, Clive Carey and A. G. Gilchrist; Journal of the Folk-Song Society, Vol. 5, No. 19 (Jun., 1915), pp. 174-203.
   h. "A Brisk Young Sailor." Sung by Thomas (William) Colcombe, Weobley, Herefords, noted F.W. Jekyll, Sep. 1906.
   i. "A Brisk Young Sailor." Tune noted by Francis Jekyll in 1908. Tune and 1st stanza given by Mr. Ford of Scaynes Hill, Sussex; additional words by Mrs. Cranstone. From the George Butterworth Manuscript Collection (GB/12/3).
   j. "Died For Love" (A bold young farmer) Isla Cameron

E. Butcher Boy ("In Jersey city where I did dwell") Roud 409; Roud 18832
   a1. "The Butcher Boy." broadside [Philadelphia]: J.H. Johnson, song publisher, 7 N. Tenth St., Philadelphia., c. 1860
   a2. "The Butcher Boy," broadside from H. De Marsan (New York), 1861-1864 Bodleian, Harding B 18(72) c. 1860
   a3. "The Butcher Boy of Baltimore," broadside words and music by Harry Tofflin. "Wm. J. Schmidt, 2507 W. North Ave. NY c. 1865. Standard text with Baltimore added.
   a4. "The Butcher Boy" Henry De Marsan's New Comic and Sentimental Singer's Journal, Issue 1, p. 16, NY, 1871
   a5. "The Butcher Boy." Broadside by Henry J. Wehman, Song Publisher, No. 50 Chatham Street, New York City; c.1880.
   b. "The Butcher Boy." Contributed by Lorraine Purvis, Grundy Center, as sung by older members of her family about 1870; Stout H.
   c. "In Jersey Town," sung by an English nurse in Virginia; from: The London Ballads by W. H. Babcock; The Folk-Lore Journal, Vol. 7, No. 1 (1889), pp. 27-35.
   d. "Butcher Boy." Sung by Ida M. Cromwell of central Iowa. From: Songs I Sang on an Iowa Farm by Ida M. Cromwell, Eleanor T. Rogers, Tristram P. Coffin and Samuel P. Bayard; Western Folklore, Vol. 17, No. 4 (Oct., 1958), pp. 229-247+312.
   e. "Ballad of the Butcher Boy." From the singing of Billy Hartman, aged wandering farm hand, at Speedwell Mills, Lancaster County, August 7, 1899. From: Keystone folklore quarterly, Volume 2, no. 1, p. 26; Spring 1957.


F. Foolish Young Girl, or, Irish Boy ("What a foolish girl was I,") Roud 60
a. "The Irish Boy," Elizabeth St. Clair of Edinburgh, c.1770; Clark, The Mansfield Manuscript (2015) pp.4-6.
b. "A New Love Song," Gil, No. 6, printed by Bart. Corcoran, Inn's Quay, Dublin c. 1774?
c. "The Maid's Tragedy," a broadside from St. Bride's Printing Library S447 (my ref BS 1900), c1790.
d. "The Irish Boy," a broadside, Poet's Box, 80 London Street, Glasgow, c. 1872
e. "Sailor Boy," sung by Georgina Reid of Aberdeenshire, about 1882 Duncan C
f. "Foolish Young Girl" From John Strachan, of Strichen, b. 1875 heard the song as a child. His mother used to sing it, c. 1885.
g. "The Student Boy," sung by William Wallace of Leochel-Cushnie, Aberdeenshire about Sept. 17, 1908. From The Greig-Duncan Folk Song Collection- Volume 8- page 521 by Patrick N. Shuldham-Shaw, ‎Emily B. Lyle, published 2002.
h. Irish Boy- sung by Annie Shirer (b. 1873) of Kininmonth who got her ballads from her father and Uncle Kenneth Shirer. Collected by Gavin Grieg, c. 1908.
i. "The Foolish Young Girl," sung by Willie Mathieson of Ellon, Aberdeenshire. Recorded by Hamish Henderson in 1952. This variant includes stanzas from three different songs. Text proofed with MS provided by Cathlin Macaulay and Caroline Milligan of the School of Scottish Studies.
j."Foolish Young Girl," sung by Jean Elvin, Turriff, 1952- recorded by Hamish Henderson. From "Tocher: Tales, Songs, Tradition" - Issue 43 - Page 41, 1991.
k. "I Wish I Was a Maid Again" sung by Bella Stewart; Recorded by Calum Iain Maclean in 1955. School of Scottish Studies.
l. "A Student Boy," sung by Norman Kennedy of Aberdeen about 1958. Folk-Legacy Records: Ballads and Songs of Scotland, FSS 034, LP (1968)
m. The Irish Boy- sung by Phyllis Martin, Dalbeattie Scotland who learned it c. 1960s from her mother Joan Cron of Wigtonshire, who is in her 80's.
n. "The Young Foolish Girl," sung by Jeannie Hutchison, Traditional Music from the Shetland Isles (online) SA1974.13.3, March, 1974.

G. Queen of Hearts ("The Queen of Hearts and the Ace of sorrow") Roud 3195
a. "The Queen of Hearts" Pitts Printer; Wholesale Toy and Marble warehouse 6, Great St. Andrew street; 7 Dials, London- c.1820
b. "The Queen of Hearts" Wright, Printer, 113, Moor-Street, Birmingham c. 1833
c. "Queen of Hearts" Collected Baring-Gould as sung by a workman engaged on the Burrow-Tor reservoir at Sheepstor, the water supply for Plymouth, 1894

H. The Darling Rose ("My love he is a false love,"); an imitation of a minstrel version.
a. "The Darling Rose," a broadside (GPB 585) Air- Beauty and the Beast; October 4, 1851

I. There is a Tavern in the Town by William H. Hills, c.1883. ("There is a tavern in the town") Roud 18834
a. "There Is a Tavern in the Town" from 1883 edition of William H. Hill's Student Songs. Also R. Marsh songbook of similar date published Marsh & Co., St. James's Walk, Clerkenwell, London. Derived from earlier songs including the "Died for Love" songs.
b. "Radoo, Radoo, Radoo," an African-American song from which part of the chorus of "There is a Tavern" was borrowed. Radoo is dated pre1869 when it was heard during a tour of US South by Irish writer Justin McCarthy. Earliest print is circa 1883 in R. Marsh songbook published Marsh & Co., St. James's Walk, Clerkenwell, London. The music was published by Bessie O'Connor about 1885 who also learned it years earlier in the US south[]. it appears in two London songsters; W. S. Fortey's "The Popular Songster" and W. S. Fortey's "Yankee Barnum's Songster" [no date given] and with music in the 1886 fictional book, "The Right Honourable": A Romance of Society and Politics, by McCarthy and Campbell-Praed; published by D. Appleton and Company.
c. "Tavern in the Town" by F. J. Adams, 1891.
d. "Adieu," sung by Mrs. Nathaniel Stone of Culpper Virginia on Nov. 15, 1916 in Traditional Ballads of Virginia by Kyle Davis Jr.
e. "The Drunkard Song." Rudy Vallee, 1934

J. Maiden's Prayer ("She was a maiden young and fair") c.1918; Roud18828
a. The Soldier's Love- sung by Fred Cottenham (Kent) c.1925
b. Maiden's Prayer- Airman's Song Book, p126 by C Ward Jackson and Leighton Lucas, dated c. 1933.
d. "All You Maidens Sweet and Kind." From Hamish Henderson's "Ballads of World War II" (Caledonian Press, Glasgow, 1947). Recorded (almost) verbatim on Ewan MacColl's "Bless 'em All and Other British Army Songs" (Riverside, 1959).
e. Maiden's Prayer- sung by Doreen Cross of Hessle, East Riding, Yorkshire in 1974. From "An East Riding Songster," 1982 by Steve Gardham.
f. Sailor Boy- sung by Tony Ballinger of Brockworth. Recorded by Gwilym Davies, Upton St. Leonards, Gloucestershire on 14 April, 1977; Gwilym Davies Collection.

K. "Died for Love" hybrids (Versions with Died for Love stanzas which cannot be categorized with A-J)
a. "Betsy, My Darling Girl." Recorded on March 19, 1937, from the singing of Mrs. G. A. Griffin, Newberry, Florida, learned from her father in Georgia by 1877-- with music. First published in Southern Folklore Quarterly - Volume 8 - page 189, 1944; then in "Folksongs of Florida," Morris, 1950.
b. "The Farmer's Boy." Brown Collection version K from Miss Lura Wagoner's manuscript book of songs lent to Dr. Brown in 1936, in which this song is dated March 15, 1913. Includes four unusual stanzas.
c. "As I Walked Out." Sung by Eden Hash collected by Mrs. McDowell [no date] but published in 1947. From Memory Melodies- A Collection of Folk-Songs from Middle Tennessee- McDowell; 1947.
d. "The Forsaken Girl." sung by Eden Hash, collected by Mrs. L. L. McDowell published in 1947. From Memory Melodies- A Collection of Folk-Songs from Middle Tennessee- McDowell; 1947.
e. "Morning Fair." Sung by Frank Proffitt of Beach Mountain NC, in 1962. From the recording Frank Proffitt of Reese, NC CD-1: American Folk Music by Folk-legacy, 1962. Learned from great-Aunt Nancy Prather.

The following ballads/songs are part of the extended family and are appendices:

7A. The Sailor Boy, or, Sweet William
7B. Love Has Brought Me To Despair
7C. Sheffield Park (The Unfortunate Maid)
7D. Every Night When The Sun Goes In
7E. Will Ye Gang Love, or, Rashy Muir
7F. My Blue-Eyed Boy
7G. Early, Early by the Break of Day
7H. She's Like the Swallow
7I. I Love You, Jamie
7J. I Know My Love
7K. Love Is Teasing (Love Is Pleasing)
7Ka. Oh Johnny, Johnny
7L. Careless Love
7La. Dink's Song
7M. The Colour of Amber
7N. Through Lonesome Woods
7O. Must I Go Bound?
7P. I am a Rover (The Rover)
7Q. Deep in Love (Deep as the Love I'm In)
7R. Yon Green Valley (Green Valley)
7S. Down in a Meadow (Unfortunate Swain)
7T. Bury Me Beneath The Willow
7U. Wheel of Fortune
7Ua. Young Ladies (Little Sparrow)
7V. The Ripest Apple (Ripest of Apples)

Many of these Appendices are nearly finished and some are finished. I've been working on this since the beginning of 2017 and haven't had much time lately but I'm starting back again and hope to finish up by summer.

Please contribute whatever you can. Evey possible traditional version is included as well has some print versions. Needless to say because of the vast amount of material, most writers of song notes have been lacking and/or confused about the origin and nature of the "Died for Love songs and the extended family.

Richie