Mudcat Café message #3834888 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #161381   Message #3834888
Posted By: Richie
25-Jan-17 - 08:24 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Died for Love: Sources: PART II
Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources: PART II

Cruel Father, my B, has a distinct plot but there aren't many versions. Two broadsides and the chapbook Answer and two trad versions-- the other trad versions from the US are weak connections but should be included. I already said it was a different ballad. However it does have the opening of Rambling Boy, the suicide and the "died for love" ending.

Cruel Father is related to Queen of Hearts-- which borrows its plot- although not in a convincing way. It's easy to see Rambling Boy, Cruel Father and Queen of Hearts forming another related family. The do have the "Died for love ending and for all practical purposes disappeared in by the mid-1900s.

As far as "Brisk Young Lover/There is an Alehouse"-- I'm now thinking Alehouse was first and Brisk Young Lover added an opening stanza.

The Scotch versions go back a ways and I believe the "alehouse" stanza was part of the "I Wish I Wish" versions. So you can't say the "I Wish" versions are versions without the "alehouse stanza." I posted the three Scotch version to make this point-- the "I wish" songs are not little fragments with the "I wish" stanza-- they also have the alehouse stanza.

The Alehouse/I Wish and Foolish Young Girl are fairly similar and there are two endings: 1. Til and apple grows on an orange tree and 2) she gathers flowers, makes her bed and dies of a broken heart [Constant Lady].

There are a number of "Butcher Boy" versions in the UK and the version from the US/Canada may have be adapted in the US but they also may have come from the UK initially.

I'm starting the North American version very soon so that should unlock more of the mystery,