Mudcat Café message #2706975 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #113016   Message #2706975
Posted By: Gibb Sahib
23-Aug-09 - 08:30 PM
Thread Name: Paul Clayton biography coming in Sept 2008
Subject: RE: Paul Clayton biography coming in Sept
I've a little question related to the book by Bob Coltman. He appears as a guest, so I can't PM him. Perhaps if he sees this or, even better, anyone else with info does, he/she will chime in.

I'm hoping to clarify a point where Coltman describes some of the early commercial success of Clayton. The account reads that Clayton moved to the Tradition label in 1956, where he recorded the album WHALING AND SAILING SONGS...   For it, Coltman notes that,

His sources included New Bedford informants and journals kept on three ships...

Coltman then begin the next section, in implied chronological sequence (??) talking about the June 1956 premiere of MOBY DICK. Clayton performed at it.

The songs he'd rescued from obscurity were feted along with the film, and many of the songs he sang during that hullabaloo appeared on the Tradition album.

I'm not sure what songs he "rescued" from obscurity, besides the "Saturday Night at Sea" cited in the text. However, if he had gotten the so-called "Blood Red Roses" from some proprietary or unpublished source, I would consider that a song that was facing obscurity at that time.

What is unclear to me from this is whether that Tradition album appeared before or after the Moby Dick premiere. Anyone know what month the album came in?

My proposal has been that A.L. Lloyd, on his 1956 (I don't know what month) album THE SINGING SAILOR, as well as in MOBY DICK (released in June 56, but naturally in the works earlier on), introduced a new form of "Come Down, You Bunch of Roses," i.e. as "Blood Red Roses," partially reforming it in the process.

I's expect that Clayton's Tradition album came after that Moby Dick premiere shebang, and that his "Blood Red Roses" was based on Lloyd.

If Clayton's album came much earlier, could it have been the reverse, that Lloyd was derivative of Clayton? The only other possibility that I see is that this re-invented song had been bubbling around informally amongst revival singers, in which case WHO revived it is still unclear.