Mudcat Café message #2587998 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #119234   Message #2587998
Posted By: Teribus
13-Mar-09 - 11:13 AM
Thread Name: BS: True IRA ?? Who are they ?
Subject: RE: BS: True IRA ?? Who are they ?
In response to Big Mick's post of 12 Mar 09 - 10:02 AM

1.        "Let me step in, even though I do not live in the North."

OK, so you're an outside observer.


2.        "But you all know where my sympathies lie."

So you have now identified yourself as a biased outside observer

3.        It is my opinion the body of evidence is clear as to the oppression, theft of land, and imposition of their laws by the British in Ireland, as well as the outright discrimination in employment and education against the Catholic Irish.

As a biased outside observer what body of evidence is clear? Upon what has this opinion been based? In a later post you admit that you have never been to Northern Ireland and that:

"My knowledge of the issues is not uninformed, rather based on knowledge gained (and understanding sought) from those on the ground there, in addition to having lived among immigrant Irish Republicans most of my life."

Hearsay in other words.

4.        I believe that the armed struggle was a legitimate one, as well as the guerilla tactics against that oppressor that had superior firepower. The North OF Ireland is just that.

Really?? You actually believe that?? Then in your view exactly the same would apply by way of justification to those who carried out the attacks of 11th September 2001, in New York and in Washington DC. I bet you shout that from the roof-tops for all to hear at home.

5.        "Having said that, it is clear that the people that live there have spoken with a very loud voice. They seek to move from the armed struggle to a political struggle."

I take it that we are talking about ALL the people who live in Northern Ireland here? Or are you only referring to one section of them? I somehow suspect that the latter is the case.

Can you tell us, as a biased outside observer, exactly when those people loudly voiced their support of the armed struggle in the first place?? I ask because I was over there at the time things started and while we were there protecting the Catholic/Nationalist Areas from Loyalists mobs and paramilitaries, and disarming the 'B' Specials, I never heard any of this clamour for armed struggle that you infer.

Additionally as agreed with the GFA a referendum was taken throughout the length and breadth of Ireland which clearly demonstrated that the people of Ireland saw no place for political violence in Irish Politics that view was supported by the vast majority of those who voted. The Republics "constitutional" claim on the six counties was also dropped. So the people spoke with a very loud voice about eleven years ago. Had they been given the chance, knowing what we all know now, they would have spoken in that same loud voice forty years ago.

6.        "They seek to move from the armed struggle to a political struggle. They have chosen to move from armed camps to political camps to express their chosen points of view."

The people of Northern Ireland, mainland Britain and various other locations never really had much option about finding themselves in an armed struggle to begin with. That reality was forced upon them by various paramilitary organizations including "dissident" elements of the "Official" IRA. Just as now the people of Northern Ireland and mainland Britain are faced with a return to those bad old days, coutesy of "dissident" elements of the "Provisional" IRA.

Currently the PSNI and Security forces are trying to locate a car bomb that the "Real" IRA has brought into Northern Ireland. Reported to be similar in size to the one rendered safe in Castlewellan at the end of January this year that would put its weight at 300lbs What was it our biased outside observer said about guerilla tactics against oppressors with superior firepower again? Oh yes, legitimate that was it Guess who the bomb will kill and maim, if it goes off??

7.        "This has always been about those same people. It has always been about them righting ancient wrongs, and that has been a fight that they have never given up on."

I'll ask you once again, who are you referring to as, "those same people", the population of Northern Ireland, or just the "Nationalist" community of Northern Ireland.

So it's all about "righting ancient wrongs" eh, that's alright then, sounds like a bit of fun. By the bye, does everybody get a shot at "righting ancient wrongs" then, or does this only apply in selected cases that you happen to approve of? I ask because there might be more than a few in your own neck of the woods who might want some ancient wrongs "righted".

8.        "They supported the IRA, PIRA in the struggle. Now they support the ballot box and peace."

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the IRA, that's the "Official" IRA outlawed in 1921 by the Government of Eire? Didn't they fight a "civil war" about that time that the "Official" IRA lost, a civil war in which many, many more Irishmen, women and children died than were ever killed in the nine months period in which the "Black and Tans" were deployed. And yet you say that the people supported the "Official" IRA I somehow don't think so, some maybe, but that does not equate to all or even a majority. In more recent times when were "those same people" given the opportunity to voice their support of the "Provisional" IRA? Or was this support only sort of taken as being read, on account of, if you voice any objection you'll find yourself nailed to the floor by your knee-caps. Had "those same people" actually supported the "Official" IRA in the early 1970's, there would be 3500 people still alive today and 36,000 who would not have been injured.

Now they support the ballot box and peace, you say. I think that as a whole the majority of the population of Northern Ireland always did. Mark you around Craigavon the ones who kicked over the flowers and candles left marking the spot where Constable Stephen Carroll was murdered might have a different take on things.

But taking everything at face value, if as you say the majority have moved from support of an armed struggle to a political struggle, then it is high time that they proved it. Like the killers of Robert MacCartney and Paul Quinn, the membership of the "Real" IRA and "Continuity" IRA are known to SinnFein/PIRA/IRA. If they are indeed committed to peace then the murders should be surrendered to face the courts.