Mudcat Café message #1635734 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #87561   Message #1635734
Posted By: Little Hawk
27-Dec-05 - 09:23 PM
Thread Name: BS: Advice for anti-war anti-bushites here
Subject: RE: BS: Advice for anti-war anti-bushites here
I agree 100% with everything you said, Don.

At the same time, I agree 100% with everything Deepak Chopra said in the first post on this thread. I don't see a conflict there.

You see, Chopra's discourse is intended primarily to instruct someone how to manage their own inner consciousness, it's not intended to tell you what to do about a social injustice. Your discourse is about the outer circumstances of life and how to deal with them...his is about the inner state of mind and how to best manage it to keep yourself in a healthy state of mind.

I would NEVER recommend to someone to sit back, uninvolved, and "content to merely observe all manner of evil with a casual indifference."

It looks to me like those who have truly learned first not to judge others are those most likely to become powerfully involved in the battle for equality and social justice, even to the point of risking and losing their own lives for the cause. Gandhi was a fine example of that.

He didn't bitch endlessly about how awful and evil and despicable the British were (they're essentially no more awful or evil than anyone else). He pointed out the clear injustices in his society, and stood up for the rights of the oppressed people who were under the British rule, and spoke in favour of what he believed in. If he were inclined to judgement, he would probably have organized clandestine groups of assassins and killed British officials and civilians too, in all likelihood...or he would have incited an armed revolt and started a war. Therein lies the difference.

To overcome judgement of others (and even of self) is a subtle business, and most people are not even slightly inclined to take it on. To judge wrongful outer behaviour is far easier and more obvious, and comes naturally to people. Self-realization has NOTHING to do with not getting involved, "ignoring the elephant", being blandly indifferent or anything like that. Was Jesus blandly indifferent?

In my experience, the people who tend to be blandly indifferent are those who complacently accept the norm exactly as it is, concentrate on filling their faces in front of the TV, and JUDGE other people with a vengeance. They do not empathize at all with most other people, so they feel entirely justified in supporting condemning them out of hand, executing them, humiliating them, and so on.

Chopra's talking about dealing with consciousness. You're talking about dealing with social issues. Of COURSE we need to judge people's behaviour. Try behaving destructively in any genuine spiritual community, and see if people don't call you on it right away. They will. The thing is, though, spiritual communities usually attract rather peacefully-minded people...although there have been notable exceptions to that among certain groups of zealots here and there!

"When you see cruelty, injustice, and indifference to the suffering of others and you become incensed by it, this comes from love."

Absolutely.

Bush probably imagines that HE is standing up for justice and equality and all good and decent things. But...he has no hesitation to judge others as completely "evil", does he? And on that basis, we have a nonsensical War Against Terror, which is itself a contradiction in terms and is unresolvable and essentially unwinnable (just like the War on Drugs). He needs to study and apply some Deepak Chopra. ;-)

Lao Tse put it this way: by attacking an enemy, you give him strength. If you believe implicitly in attack to solve your problems you will always have enemies and never have peace for very long...only brief pauses between one struggle and the next. The old enemy will return in a new form, with another face.

As for anger...an outward and resolute use of righteous anger can be quite appropriate in certain situations as long as the anger doesn't hijack you and cause you to lose control and descend into hatred and vengeance. Remember the cobra that decided to be spiritual and not hurt anyone? (it was on the strong advice of a sage, who had been called for help by villagers who feared the cobra) The villagers, discovering that the cobra had become surprisingly passive, beat it almost to death, in reprisal for its previous attacks on people. When the sage returned, he found the cobra nearly dead. "You foolish snake!" he exclaimed. "I told you not to bite. I didn't tell you not to HISS!"