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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
Teribus BS: Clerical Abuse of Children (580* d) RE: BS: Catholic Abuse of Children 23 Sep 17

"You appear to be arguing that an institution is some kind of inanimate entity, Joe. It isn't. It's made of people. The institution of the Church is hierarchical. Once these offences become public the culpability passes upward - unless urgent, public and direct action is taken to punish the perpetrators." - Shaw

Any institution IS an inanimate entity. How ethically, how efficiently it functions depends upon the people involved and that can change depending upon situations and circumstances and over the course of time - that is not the fault of the institution which remains the same inanimate entity (One that once demanded that heretics be burnt at the Stake - that would not be the case today).

"The institution of the Church is hierarchical." - Superficially that may well APPEAR to be the case. Joe Offer has already taken great pains to point out throughout this thread that each Diocese within the Church operates autonomously under the direction of the Bishop of the Diocese who may or may not take heed, by varying degrees, of guidelines from the Vatican (Joe Offer please NOTE that in writing this as one of the highest ranking problem posters on this forum I am merely stating what you yourself have previously written and that I am not looking in any way, shape, or form, for any "endorsement" from YOU, or anybody else, which I would regard as worthless - Just hope that that is perfectly clear) None of the "usual suspects" appear to have listened to what Joe has had to say, but then that is not uncommon for them, the only people they listen to are themselves as individuals.

"Culpability" with regard to any actual abuse perpetrated remains fixed with the party "Guilty" of the offence - actions that can be taken are constrained by law which requires formal investigation with its required burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt - in the cases being discussed those would and should have been criminal investigations undertaken by the police not by the Catholic Church. Such investigations and examination of evidence offered may well reveal degrees of "Guilt" of persons as accessories AFTER the fact. The institution of the Church itself has no culpability as it has no formally declared hard and fast rules that state it must "protect" and "shield" it's officials from due process of law. Members of the clergy and lay members of church MAY be responsible under law as private individuals guilty of committing offences under criminal law - the Church as an entity is not.

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