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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
TheSnail BS: Logic and the laws of science (461* d) RE: BS: Logic and the laws of science 15 Jun 16

Right! Now for Evolution.

Pete from seven stars link
Just a little reminder....not only did snail not like Steve saying....evolution is true..., but issued the challenge me some evolution....    Now it would seem logical if it cannot be demonstrated, ie, if you cannot show us some evolution, that to say evolution is true, is a statement of belief rather than substantiated fact. And to say that it is true, seems to be at variance to the oft repeated claim that everything in science is provisional.
I never thought I'd say this but "Thank you, Pete". That is a concise and accurate summary of my position although I suspect that what you conclude from it may be a little different from my intention. Quite why Steve denies that I asked him to show me some evolution I don't know. I asked repeatedly and he consistently failed to do so.

Steve Shaw
Because evolution is not science. Evolution is a natural phenomenon that would exist whether we sentient beings were here to ponder it or not (though, of course, it did produce us). Do you deny that?
Yes, I deny that evolution is a natural phenomenon.
The world is full of living organisms of every imaginable and a great many unimaginable sorts. Some of these, like humans and chimpanzees, closely resemble each other; others are vastly different; some have lesser or greater resemblance. These are the natural phenomena that we are presented with. Up until two or three hundred years ago, the prevailing explanation of all this was that God created each species fully formed and they remained unchanged for the following 6000 and something years. Gradually, a better idea emerged (evolved?) and came to be known as evolution. Darwin gives a good account of this in a sort of preamble to Origin of Species added after the first edition I think.
Evolution involving descent from common ancestors and gradual change over long periods of time is the best explanation we have for these similarities and differences and probably the best we will ever have. It is, nonetheless, a theory and as such cannot be described as "true".
One of the problems with seeing it as a theory is that no single individual published a major work presenting it as such. It is the combined effort of many individuals over a long time.
If you still insist that it is a natural phenomenon, then I will say again as I have said many times before, "Show me some evolution.".
If you don't like my saying that evolution as a natural phenomenon (not the theory) is true, then you're saying that it's not true.
No I am not; I am saying that it is not a meaningful statement.

Yesterday I asked "could I, at least, ask you to pause and consider why I have trouble with statements like "Evolution is true!"?"
Apparently not.

If someone truly wants to see evolution , if you are not just making a rhetorical request, I can literally show you the process and not just the results.
Yes please. Bring it on.

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