Mudcat Café Message Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Tom Bliss Is traditional song finished? (621* d) RE: Is traditional song finished? 10 Mar 10

"Nobody 'owns' the word Tom,not me, not you, not the handful of club organisers that would wish it away."

Err, actually no club organisers that I know want to wish it away. They just use it differently.

Communities own words, Jim. We all own our own language, and our language is defined by its use within the communities we inhabit.

Me, you, club organisers, lexicographers and folklore musicologists use some words differently. We are all correct within our own communities.

"A definition exists, it is established, extremely well documented (probably more so than any other musical genre) and accessible to all who would wish to seek it out."

Yes, it does, and the definition is sound.

It uses/used the word Folk as a LABEL, then it changed the label to Traditional. But it didn't change the definition, and the definition remains undamaged and undiluted.

But words can be used as a label for many things - and this one is.

"Democracy does not lie in the hands of those with vested interests who would mould it to their own purposes."

That's what I'm trying to tell you Jim. It works the other way round. There are no vested interests here. Just people democratically (in ignorance/innocence) evolving the meaning of a word.

"Definitions don't get voted out of existence, they evolve, out of changing circumstances, out of constant misuse, by additional information - but certainly not at the behest of a handful."

If it was a just handful, I'd be with you, but it's not - it's the entire English speaking population.

"If any of your provided definitions hold water as such, point to me the dictionaries were I can find them listed, because when push comes to shove, it is there that we go for the consensus that enables us to continue communicating with each other over great distances and periods of time."

Yes we do, but dictionaries are retrospective, and you need a good one to pick up all the nuances in the evolutionary flow. They'll get there in time. And even if they don't the words will still mean what people want them to mean. The can only be compared with Humpty Dumpty if the person they are talking to can't understand them.

"PS If your songs are folk songs they are copyright by law as I understand it - if they are not why?"

My songs are folk songs because a significant community calls them so. Not because I do. Yes they are copyright. That community calls some copyright songs 'folk songs.' There is no conflict. Nobody calls them 'anon' trad' or 'public domain' and those who believe only trad songs can be folk don't call them 'folk' either. But enough people do for it to be true and legit.

"Nor did you answer my Lady ith the cello question" Sure did.

Post to this Thread -

Back to the Main Forum Page

By clicking on the User Name, you will requery the forum for that user. You will see everything that he or she has posted with that Mudcat name.

By clicking on the Thread Name, you will be sent to the Forum on that thread as if you selected it from the main Mudcat Forum page.
   * Click on the linked number with * to view the thread split into pages (click "d" for chronologically descending).

By clicking on the Subject, you will also go to the thread as if you selected it from the original Forum page, but also go directly to that particular message.

By clicking on the Date (Posted), you will dig out every message posted that day.

Try it all, you will see.