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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) BS: More pagan stuff (118* d) RE: BS: More pagan stuff 04 May 00

Penny, I think pictures of churchyard trees would be very nice.

I'm sure many people speak of "dedicating" a church to a saint. To me this is additional evidence of the death of the old gods, since people can use language in a way that tends (as I interpret) in a polytheistic direction without any feeling of contradiction: they know their own minds, and have no reason to fear or doubt that they are anything but monotheists. Nevertheless I suspect that if you examined the ritual used when an Anglican house of worship was dedicated, the prayers would all be addressed to God. It's been a long time since I read those rituals, though, so there is always the possibility that I don't remember accurately and would be surprised at what I found. I also recall (equally vaguely) St. John of Damascus, writing in the 8th century, very carefully speaking of "raising churches in honor of" saints (not "dedicating them to" saints). But there too, maybe when I read it again I will find something different from what I remember.

Peg, my remark to skarpi was intended as a wisecrack. I probably was, however, also writing from an unexamined, idealized view of Iceland as a country in which everyone speaks English as well as they speak Icelandic (and therefore wouldn't need help interpreting an English word.) I apologize to skarpi for harboring unexamined prejudices about his country, even though I don't consider them to have been negative prejudices.

I stand by my evaluation of some versions of pagan-survival theories as "romantic fantasy". They are fantasy because they are not accurate history. They are romantic because, in my opinion, it is partly a result of the intellectual movement known as romanticism that such theories and thought-patterns exist and are easy for us to use. I think I am right about the inaccuracy of the historical claims of some of these theories. I may be wrong about the importance of the phenomenon known as romanticism in their formation (much would depend simply on how "romanticism" was defined), but for now my hunch is that there is some connection. If you consider my evaluation wrong, we can discuss it if we wish. If you consider it "condescension", then there is nothing I can do about that.

Here are the old words to Nonesuch a.k.a. A la mode de France. They are from Chappel's Popular Music of the Olden Time (1850-ish). Chappel gets them from the Collection of Loyal Songs, (1731). I consider it an anti-Cromwellian political song, but perhaps a Murrayite would consider it a "pagan" anthem on the death and return of the Divine King.

(to the tune of Nonesuch)

Me have of late been in England,
vere me have seen much sport,
de raising of de Parliament
have quite pulled down de Court.
De King and Queen dey separate
and rule in ignorance--
Pray judge, ye gentlemen, if dis
be a la mode de France.

A vise man dere is like a ship
dat strike upon de shelves.
Dey prison all, behead, and vip
all viser dan demselves;
Dey send out men to fetch deyr king,
who may come home, perchance:
O fy, fy, fy, it is, be gar,
not a la mode de France.

Dey raise deyr valiant prentices
to guard deyr cause vith clubs;
dey turn deyr Bishops out of doors,
and preash demselves in tubs.
De cobler and de tinker, too,
dey vill in time advance.
Gar take dem all, it is (mort Dieu)
not a la mode de France.

Instead of bowing to deyr king,
dey vex him vith epistles.
Dey furnish all deyr souldiers out
vith bodkins, spoons, and vhistles.
Dey bring deyr gold and silver in,
de Brownists to advance.
And if dey be cheat of it all,
'tis a la mode de France.

But if ven all deyr vealth be gone,
dey turn unto deyr king,
dey vill al make amends again,
den merrily ve vill sing,
"Vive le roy, vive le Roy"--
ve'll sing, carouse, and dance.
De English men have done fort bon
and a la mode de France


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